HELLO DUTCH SPEAKERS... could you please translate?

Started by George J. Homs on Wednesday, November 2, 2011

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11/2/2011 at 9:06 AM

You find records that look Chinese to you? They might be Dutch! :-)
In records from Old Amsterdam to New Amsterdam, from Jakarta to Cape Town, you will come across precise genealogical data that you may not know how to interpret.

DON'T HESITATE... and ask this team of volunteers for help!
(And return the favor if you can).

Google Translate will NOT give you the right answer. The records may be in a variety of versions of old Dutch. Depending on syntax, 'van Gent' may be a location - or a last name. And, what do you make of abbreviations such as 'jm', 'jd', 'geh.'... ?
We all care about the accuracy of our data. And, we know from experience that a better interpretation of texts may reveal new genealogical clues.

So, if you have a birth, marriage or death record you're puzzled about, type the text in this discussion thread or post the link to an online record. (Please, not complete books!).
We're all volunteers, so be patient!

12/15/2011 at 10:42 AM

Hey Carla! It looks like you placed your order successfully. Then again, I see that Genlias is offering its IBAN numbers. Perhaps you got an email message from them that confirms the payment using bank transfer and IBAN? Hence, if so, your order seems placed - but then they'll simply wait for your bank transfer.

12/15/2011 at 11:04 AM

Ok; I'll wait for the e-mail Genlis.
Tks.

12/15/2011 at 12:20 PM

Carla, please delete the above message with your password. We dodn't want people tapping into your account.

12/16/2011 at 4:23 AM

Tks, Kenneth!!!

1/17/2012 at 9:23 AM

Hi, I have 5-6 lines of old text that I'd like some help decoding. I'm trying to find out the names of children listed in a testament from the late 1600s. Would it be possible to send you a PDF somehow? Of seven children, I've been able to decipher Antonij, Lijsbet, Maria, Gerit and maybe Lenaert - not sure though. Thanks. Bill

Private User
1/17/2012 at 10:05 AM

William you can always add the document to the Geni profile of this person , post the URL here and we can all have a go translating it, or I can translate it for you. If it is from 1600 this will probably be in 'Old' Dutch noty quite the same as the modern day Dutch.

Private User
2/7/2012 at 2:51 AM

Feel free to ask me (short) texts to translate. Dutch is my native language and I'm fluent in English. I'm not a linguist but I'm able to read most Middle Dutch texts. I also know a few linguists at universities who may be able to help.

Just to clear something up: texts from the 17th century are not Old Dutch.

* Old Dutch = Medieval Dutch (6th-12th century). You can hardly tell the difference between Old English, Old Dutch and Old Saxon. There are very little written sources, any official texts (birth records etc) from that period were written in Latin.

* Middle Dutch = 1150-1500. More texts survive, but family records will still be in Latin.

* Contemporary Dutch: standardization started in the 16th century. In 1618 a Dutch translation of the Bible was published. Since then there has been very little evolution, only grammar has been simplified.

To use a broad overgeneralization: Dutch from the 1600s is just as readable to a 21st century Dutch speaker as Shakespeare's English is to a 21st century English speaker.

Private User
2/7/2012 at 2:53 AM

William de Laat
Antonij = Anthony
Lijsbet = Elisabeth
Maria = Maria
Gerit = Gerrit, Geert
Lenaert = Leonard, Lennert

Private User
2/7/2012 at 2:56 AM

The biggest problem with *written* (not printed) texts from the 1600s may not be the spelling but the orthography. The form of the letters was much more "curly" in those days. The same is true for any written English text from that time.

2/7/2012 at 2:28 PM

Thanks so much for your help Amedee. I'm getting better at reading text from the 1600s, but still find it very challenging. I appreciate your willingness to assist
Regards, Bill

4/7/2012 at 8:57 PM

Hilbert Moes woont in 1774 in het Zuidwoldiger Rot 54 en betaalt 2 gld haardstedengeld. Op 11 maart 1774 worden i.v.m. het hertrouwen mombers aangesteld; zoon Hilbert blijkt dan al overleden; de boedel is van geen waarde. Jan Willem Moes (1b) wordt dan hoofdmomber, omdat van moederszijde niemand kan lezen en schrijven; mede mombers worden Jan Reinds, Roelof Harms van Roveen en Willem Willems van Cloosterveen.

Hi, i'm struggling to understand this text, specifically what is a "momber"?
Also regarding the remarriage what would i.v.m. mean?
Then who are the men named at the end? Could they be farm workers living in the house at the time?

4/7/2012 at 11:06 PM

Hello Alex. A "momber' (old expression, not used today) is a 'legal tutor'.
The abbreviation "i.v.m." means "in verband met" - or, "with regards to".
No idea what the profession of the people at the end are, but what it basically says is that those people became "co-tutors".
I hope this helps?

4/8/2012 at 6:47 AM

Alex: I would interpret this to mean that the children needed literate guardians because no one on the mother's side could read nor write.. and she was remarrying.. sort of a legal safety net..

4/8/2012 at 12:55 PM

I have a booklet titled: Het Nederlands Handschrift in 1600 (Dutch handwriting in 1600) By W. Bogtman Haarlem. Herdruk Reprint 1999 M.J. Bogtman-Sillem NEODruk N.V. Ahrend & Zn. Amsterdam. Maybe this can still be ordered..

4/8/2012 at 5:32 PM

Thank you George and Jacomina.
So when Hilbert remarried a member of his deceased wife's family would have been named to act as a guardian for the childrens rights but because the mother's relatives were illiterate instead their Oom Jan was declared guardian plus 3 others men.
Fascinating.

Private User
4/16/2012 at 5:45 AM

Could someone please translate this message into English for me.
Many thanks,
Pam

Ik heb hier de relatie tussen Mij en Truus Wijsmuller -Meijer in kaart gebracht zie bijlage.
Ik ben dit familieonderzoek van mijn moeder in de jaren 60 begonnen
omdat deze familie nog al ondernemend is.
Ik ben eerst de sleepbootmaatschappij wezen onderzoeken dat voor de 2e wereldoorlog werd opgericht , en daarna de rest van de Wijsmullers.
Mijn Opa had een Accountantskantoor in Eindhoven.
Hopelijk is de relatie duidelijk .

4/16/2012 at 10:20 AM

-
Here I tried to make clear the relation between me and Truus Meijer, married with a WIJSMULLER, see compilation.
I started this family-tree research about my mother's ancestry in the sixties, because members of the MEIJER's tree are rather business-like or .. -the word ondernemend has double kinds of meanings-
I started first to explore documentation about the Steam-boat-company that was started -by her grandfather maybe? -jMu- before WorldWar II and after that I looked upon archive for WIJSMULLER-information/documentation.
My grandfather had a Accountancy-firm in Eindhoven -that is in the province North-Brabant of the Netherlands, see also our sources-pages, linked to the International Dutch Portal-
I hope this relation is clear

Succes, jeannette from Holland, Europe.

Private User
4/16/2012 at 4:27 PM

Thank you so much Jeannette.
It's great and makes sense.

4/16/2012 at 10:49 PM
4/16/2012 at 11:04 PM

You're welcome, Pam, but I discovered I made mistakes in my -not-native-english/american:

Please [Private User ALEX] a/o [Andre van Amstel, Dr. ANDRE] :
could one of Yu both explain in adequate english the difference betrween:

* sCHeep-vaart-maatschappij
* sLeep-boot-maatschappij
* sTOOM-vaart-maatschappij
a/o a
* scheeps-WERF
a/o the
* Stoomvaart Maatschappiij Nederland -SMN-

Thanks, I am rather Marine, but not a -beedigd- tolk.
kusvanjulliegenizusjMu.

4/29/2012 at 11:06 PM

I've come across what to my eyes seems an odd name:
"Coenradina"
I am wondering if this is similiar to Catharina?

Private User
4/29/2012 at 11:33 PM

No that is an other name! Coenradinus is the female variant of the male Coenradus

Private User
4/29/2012 at 11:35 PM

Sorry, Coenradina is the female variant. Coenradinus is also male. In German the male name is Konrad

Private User
4/29/2012 at 11:36 PM

we met English people who asked us what odd kind of German we were speaking, so now you know how the English think about Dutch

Private User
4/30/2012 at 1:05 AM

lol Coenradina was not an odd name in the old days, I think nowadays we would find it an odd name too... We have in the family Hendrik (male) and Hendrika (female) and Coenraad is still a name that is used but more in the short version "Koen" (and you say it like Coon -same as spoon- not co----en)

4/30/2012 at 4:28 AM

Well Fred I won't tell you what us Australians think of Englishmen.
I know a Konrad so not such a strange name after all.
Thank you too Jennie.

4/30/2012 at 5:27 AM

@jMu and @"Pam Karp",

The most acuurate translation would be:
Scheep-vaart- Maatschappij - "Boating Company"
Sleep-boot-Maatschappij - "Tug Boat company"
Stoom-vaart-maatschappij - "Steam Boat Company"
Scheeps-Werf - "dockyard"

The most accurate translation (in my opinion) would be:

Ik ben eerst de sleepbootmaatschappij wezen onderzoeken dat voor de
2e wereldoorlog werd opgericht , en daarna de rest van de Wijsmullers

"I first investigated the industry around tug boat companies that were established before the second world war and after that the rest of the Wijsmullers (refering to the family with the surname Wijsmuller)"

But really, @mJU had the gist of it.

Regards,
Schalk

4/30/2012 at 11:49 PM

thanks, mister Schalk.

Private User
5/12/2012 at 6:52 PM

If there are any dutch speaking people here who'd like to help translate records, the LDS have old records they need indexed. Go to www.the1940census.com and sign up, after you register there are records from around the world to enter. I tried some Dutch records but the script was too difficult to make out. The record I was working on was from 1843.

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