Suggestion to reduce duplications

Started by Alex Moes on Wednesday, July 4, 2012

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Showing 91-120 of 211 posts
Private User
7/29/2012 at 1:24 PM

On a different thread, but seemed relevant here: http://www.geni.com/discussions/111408?msg=806222

Private User
7/29/2012 at 1:38 PM

I use a lot of "monkey tricks" including "duplicating" to build my pretty trees. For me the challenge is weaving together the clues and fragments into coherence - and unfortunately also tearing apart and rebuilding the mistakes, whether they are technology driven or genealogically and historically driven.

Way back I remember a wonderful member talking about tree building as like carpentry. "it may not be plumb, but it meets "rule of thumb.""

Private User
8/9/2012 at 5:56 AM

@ Erica Howton :-)

8/9/2012 at 2:49 PM

I somehow missed this discussion before now. I must point out that the problem (that the thread is about) has been discussed many times although probably not since the changes by Geni to allow Stand alone trees and to allow pro's to merge but non-pro's not.
In these previous discussions it was strongly impressed upon Geni that they should be informing the new user of how Geni Works and its aim of one person one profile right from when they first join.

Putting my cynical hat on I wonder if there is now a reluctance on Geni's part to do this because it is in their interest for new users to be pulled into merging because then they get revenue whereas if new users had a full explanation of how to use Geni from the start they may not be pulled into merging so quickly.

Putting my more usual sensible and empathetic hat on I would say that by educating their users from day one and having a top quality product they would probably find the whole thing working much more efficiently which would attract more and more people to join, and to pay.

As a very long time user of Geni, I'm very out of touch with exactly what a new user finds when they first see Geni but I would be willing to bet (& I don't bet) that a new user if they understand anything after the first day don't really understand the one world tree or the Historic Tree aspect of Geni which is, I believe it's Geni's greatest asset and it should be promoted & emphasised at every opportunity but at the opening of a tree this is IMHO essential.

The view of Geni to new users, to my knowledge has changed little since I joined in 2007. Perhaps Geni needs to consider a re-styling and more importantly addressing issues like this one that keep coming up again and again in discussion forums. That fact alone should be alerting them to the problem.

Private User
8/9/2012 at 4:45 PM

Actually, not sure "its aim of one person one profile" is accurate - Geni said they wanted to Create a World Tree with one person, one profile - BUT did they ever say they would not allow additional profiles on separate Trees, or did they just tell you this was something they wanted for the World Tree?

Moreover - One profile for everyone now alive or who has ever lived is a Goal -- not something to be imposed immediately. And since the likelihood of us locating the info on everyone who lived over 300 years ago is small to nil, perhaps never to be reached.

Private User
8/9/2012 at 5:18 PM

Great to see you again Marianne!

I'm going back to crooked - but hey they last 300 years - tree building now.:)

8/9/2012 at 5:21 PM

Thanks for some background Terry, as you say the fact that the topic keeps coming up is an indication in itself.

Private User
8/9/2012 at 5:38 PM

The motto of Geni (or used to be) is "everyone's connected.". All that this argument is about is how do you show it. How do you prove it. We may not be able to map in everyone who ever existed or who will exist, but we can try.

8/9/2012 at 6:03 PM

ACTUALLY, please reread my original post.
As the discussion title quite clearly describes i was suggesting an improvement to the way new users are introduced to Geni in an attempt to reduce the number of isolated trees being created not because of a concious choice by the new user but instead due to their ignorance/inexperience.
This thread is not about how to show/prove the interconnectedness of everyone, nor is the ease of identifying 300 year old ancestors relavent either.

Private User
8/9/2012 at 6:17 PM

Ah - you're doing enhancement requests. The new users I've introduced to Geni have been clear about "mission" and also how to add themselves to the tree without duplication. Sorry.

Private User
8/9/2012 at 6:29 PM

Alex - I get worried when it seems folks are focused on forcing much more than that (such as conveying to new users or anyone that they do not have the right to create duplicates), but I definitely agree that

"an attempt to reduce the number of isolated trees being created not because of a concious choice by the new user but instead due to their ignorance/inexperience. "

is a good goal.

One possible assist to that end - if everyone makes a conscious concerted effort to talk to as many as possible of their living relatives in their Max Extended Family, explaining about Geni and offering to send them an invite. ( And encourage them to extend invites to other Family members they know). This way, fewer folks might actually be starting out on their own creating separate trees.

8/9/2012 at 7:14 PM

A good suggestion Lois but i think Geni could be a bit more proactive too :)

Private User
8/10/2012 at 3:01 AM

To avoid making dubligates is one way. Merging them is another, but when only a Pro is allowed to merge, the number of potential members to assist is smaler than it should.
Could Geni afford to have a "merging day" for all members now and then ? Merging was promissed to all members in the begining.

8/10/2012 at 3:16 AM

There is a trial at the moment of non-pro users being allowed to accept merge requests but they still cannot initiate merge requests.

Lois, I'm not going to get drawn into the argument about what Geni's aims are or were I'm just saying that if new users knew of the existance of the Big Tree (you can't deny it exists) from the very beginning and how to hook up to it easily the problem Alex is hilighting in this thread would be at least halved.

8/10/2012 at 4:30 AM

Harry,
FYI it's merge day everyday over at this other thread:
http://www.geni.com/discussions/99133?msg=809116

Not as easy as doing it yourself but still helpful.

Private User
8/10/2012 at 10:57 AM

Thank You Alex. That was new for me. Lets hope that Pro-members have time to help

Private User
8/10/2012 at 11:03 AM

Harry, Alex - First, want to make sure you are aware that Geni is currently allowing Non-Pros to Accept Merges. Take advantage of this!! They say it is temporary but have not said for how long.
http://www.geni.com/discussions/111634

Private User
8/10/2012 at 11:17 AM

Alex - I would say Geni agrees with you that folks would like to merge - and has purposely chosen to make it harder for Non-Pros to do in an attempt to garner more Pro Membership Fees.

Simple Changes that would allow for reduction of Duplicates - each an undoing of Geni changes

1] When a Non-Pro does a Search, allow them to contact the Profile owner (of a claimed profile) or Send a Message to the Profile Manager of an unclaimed Profile -- that way they could contact any cousin or other relative they see has a tree already started and ask them if they wanted to merge -- quite possibly thru one of them simply entering the other's e-mail on the profile he/she entered, thus sending an invite. This two Non-Pros still had the ability to do even when not able to request or accept merges – and this merge (of the two profiles of himself, both with same e-mail address) was still allowed then.

2] Allow Non-Pros to click on the circle indicating a suggested Match and be able to contact the manager of the other Profile.

But even without 2], if they see Geni says a Match, and can Search and then Contact – that would be half the battle.

As it is, a Non-Pro cannot contact someone from a Geni-Search result, cannot see if Suggested Match looks valid, cannot go to a Public Profile from a Geni-Search. All of these majorly hinder them merging soon, and put all the onus on the Pros to be constantly checking for new Potential Matches – since they CAN contact. But – how many of them think to Contact, with info and encouragement, rather than just send a Merge Request which comes from some non-reply address?

8/18/2012 at 5:30 AM

To stick my two cents in again...it seems like when someone joins GENI if they enter a profile for themselves, once they put the names in the box a bubble box should pop up and say "this name may already have a profile in GENI" and allow the user to explore the existing profiles before they put one in to see if they are there. That would cut down on maybe seventy percent of duplicates. Right now GENI is designed to put profiles in and declare them duplicates after the fact when they need to be cleaned up. Many are never cleaned up because users do not understand how GENI works and many have lost interest and left before they understand the system. I know I am still learning, it takes a while.

8/19/2012 at 3:58 AM

Vicki, more than two cents, your comments paints a vivid picture.
To coin a phrase, "a picture is worth a thousand dollars".

Private User
8/19/2012 at 9:48 AM
8/19/2012 at 10:17 AM

Barbara Jean Shepard you should be able to merge whether pro or not at the moment as David's link points out however I suspect you may be stuck in another issue. Is it possible that your daughter claimed her profile (or one of them)?

8/19/2012 at 10:27 AM

Viki has hit the nail on the head (sorry non-English speakers - that means found the exact point ) when she said "...because users do not understand how GENI works and many have lost interest and left before they understand the system."
Geni's aims ambitions and way of working needs to be explained in simple terms at the very very beginning, before someone even enters a profile for themselves. Geni is fantastic and people who have a bad experience at the beginning but are lucky enough to get it sorted out (say by a curator) usually go on to be very keen on Geni and explaining it to others but there are obviously those that leave disenfranchised that Geni should be trying to keep on board so that they then attract more more users. Geni have not pushed themselves at all, in my opinion and yet they have quite a unique product. Hardly anyone in England seems to have heard of them! If everyone who joins Geni knows and understands the workings of Geni then the product will grow into something truly amazing.

Private User
8/19/2012 at 10:43 AM

Terry some times they leave because they finally realize what Geni is about. It's not for everyone! If I hadn't invested so much time and effort as well as a lot of my research into it I'd leave it again.The only really good thing about it is meeting other people with like interest. The rest of it is not "my cup of tea" However, for the time being I am stuck here on basic mode. I liked it a lot better before all the changes.But Geni I doubt will return to orginal ways , so must live with it for the time being, Like I said met some really nice people and one very helpful person from Canada. Judy

Private User
8/19/2012 at 10:46 AM

Erica, I agree with you I just want my tree to look like my reseach says it should look like. Judy

Private User
8/19/2012 at 10:55 AM

Judy to be honest the "big tree" looks a lot more accurate than it did a couple of years ago. We're making progress.

8/19/2012 at 11:09 AM

Some times they leave and do not even have a bad experience...life gets in the way they are busy and do not have time to invest in the "hobby of genealogy" even if they have good intentions. Some are not that computer oriented so they lose patience on trying to find out how a system works. So therefore GENI should develop tools for those of us "still on here and learning or trying to further things" so we can clean up some of the messes that have been made. I started researching another part of my tree and was so disgusted by the rampant duplicates, apparently absentee posters, and private profiles that I do not think I will ever get anywhere with that line of ancestors. I also think that GENI should not allow any person dead to have a private profile. That would help.

Private User
8/19/2012 at 11:43 AM

Vicki - Sorry, majorly disagree with you re: "GENI should not allow any person dead to have a private profile." - it would hurt Geni's goal of allowing folks to share family info privately among family members. Many who might want to share, with family, their thoughts and memories of those they remember but who have died will not want to do so with the world. Also - The Profile, in Timeline and About especially, includes info on folks other than the one the Profile is for - for example, if Joe Blow is deceased, and his son is alive and has filled out his full name, date of birth and place of birth (Geni is for sharing this info with family, privately!!) -- Joe Blow's son's info will show on Joe Blow's Time-Line.

IF GENI'S ONLY GOAL was JUST a tree with one and only one Profile for everyone, that would be different. As it is, leave the Privacy Zone at least as far back and out as it is.

Private User
8/19/2012 at 11:53 AM

Lois I disagree with you about "how far back.". That entirely defeats the purpose of ANY genealogy, which is to compile and share information on ancestors. That has been the purpose of it since Hamurabi of Ur had inscribed for posterity: I, Hamurabi, King of Kings ...

But of course a privacy zone to protect the living.

Private User
8/19/2012 at 11:56 AM

I think if we can come to an understanding that the "privacy zone" is for that purpose we can end the argument about "two goals.". It's all one species with one history and genealogy is a view of it.

Showing 91-120 of 211 posts

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