Ansela Campher (van de Kaap), SM/PROG - The mother of Ansela Campher (van de Kaap)

Started by Petrie Coetzee on Sunday, July 8, 2012
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7/8/2012 at 10:04 PM

There appears to be an inconsistency in this record concerning Ansela Campher (van de Kaap), wife of Lourens Campher. How is it that her mother can be BOTH Inabe (Ansela) van Timor, thereby apparently originally from Timor (part of or close to Indonesia) AND originally from Angola (in Africa)?

7/8/2012 at 10:23 PM

Hello Petrie
Not quite sure I understand what you are saying - her mother was from Timor - I do not see a reference to Angola. Can you explain?

Have a look at what has been written about her at

- http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g8/p8148.htm

- she was born in bondage - the child of two people who were in bondage - her mother Inabe or Ansela from Timor and her father Amsoeboe (Clasius) Paaij Moor from Timor.

Private User van you comment please?

7/9/2012 at 1:24 AM

There were probably 2 or more Angela v d Kaap .
Angolan slaves were imported around 1654 for Jan van Riebeek they were taken from a Portugees ship by the VOCship capitain.

7/9/2012 at 2:29 AM

Hello June

My source is Ansela Baauw van de Caap, b2 this morning. That webpage has the following as heading, and seemingly as major heading:

"Ansela Campher, SM/PROG
This is the Master Profile for Ansela Campher, SM/PROG.
Curator Note from June Barnes (2/7/2012)"

Under what apparently is a subheading titled "history" (in small type and not with a capital "H") the following appears:

"Ansela was a former slave who was freed by Lorenz CAMPHER - they lived on the farm Murasie near Koelenhof.
Information from History of Muratie Wine Estate
Ansela was born in the Castle (Cape Town) - the child of a black Angolan girl and a soldier based at the Cape. Ansela met Lourens Campher whilst she was tending to the gardens in and around the castle. Campher moved out to the farmland given to him by Governor van der Stel. From 1685 - 1699 Campher used to walk on foot to Cape Town to visit Ansela in the slave quarters. During this time Ansela had 3 children by him. On the 28 June 1699, after having been christened, Ansela was set free. Campher fetched her the following day and together they were the first family to farm what would later be known as Muratie. "

This quoted information, and all that follows after it under the heading "history", is mentioned as having been taken from http://www.muratie.co.za/index.php?id=41.

From your surprised reaction it seems to me that the information taken from the Muratie website is not to be considered as part of your Curator Note of 2 July 2012.

I have been aware of both Mansell Upham's and findings on the forebears of Ansela van de Kaap as well as what is said about her parentage on the Muratie webpage. The two sets of statements are contrary. I am of the opinion that Mansell Upham's conclusions are probably more reliable than those of Muratie, being aware of much of the quality of the substantial genealogical research he has published, and considering that he had spent a substantial span of time before having his findings published. The Muratie version is the older of two and has, in my opinion, been replaced Mansell's findings. On reading
Ansela Baauw van de Caap, b2
this morning I was surprised to find the two opinions seemingly having been concatenated.

Ansela van de Kaap is important to me because her mother is the South African progenitor ("stammoeder") on my family tree.

I will appreciate your opinion.

7/9/2012 at 2:33 AM

To clarify, June: I am referring to the mother of Ansela as South African progenitor but specifically on the matrilineal line of my family tree.

7/9/2012 at 2:39 AM

Interesting

7/9/2012 at 3:42 AM

Just for further clarity, June, the fourth last sentence must read: "The Muratie version is the older of the two and has, in my opinion, been replaced BY Mansell's finding."

7/9/2012 at 4:57 AM

Thank you Petrie - I have cleaned it up and people can read further at the muratie web pages using the link. I agree re Mansell's findings and we should base our information on his information. This is definitely the sort of collaboration needed on Geni! Thank you.

7/9/2012 at 6:29 AM

Bravo!

7/9/2012 at 7:01 AM

This reference to the First Fifty Years project concur with Timor as the origin of her parents:
http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g8/p8148.htm
Evidence provided there originated from Mansell Upham.

7/9/2012 at 7:18 AM

I think you will see that that information and link is in the about field Johann!

7/9/2012 at 7:40 AM

Oops - didn't notice. Thanks!

7/9/2012 at 7:56 AM

No Worries Johann|!

7/10/2012 at 1:15 AM

Thank you, June. That clarifies matters. Kind regards.

7/11/2012 at 1:40 AM

Timely update on FFY project -

http://www.e-family.co.za/remarkablewriting/PaiTimor.pdf

"... a new ground-breaking article ...

by Mansell Upham entitled “PAI TIMOR the ‘accomodatory’ life and times
of a 17th century family from Timor exiled to Java, Mauritius & the Cape
of Good Hope”. This is a detailed inquiry into a deracinated Timorese
family whose descendants effectively ‘colour’ a number of major
colonially induced South African families of European (German, Dutch,
Danish and Swedish) origin: BLOM, CAMPHER, DE JAGER, ERASMUS, KRüGEL, PUTTER, VAN DER SWAAN and VAN WYK. The shared ancestry of 4 important but mysterious Cape-born ‘founding mothers’, Catharina de Beer, Hermina Carelse, Maria Elisabeth Jooste and Ansela ‘van de Caab’ who have defied detection for decades and frustrated many an ardent
researcher/genealogist, is finally unravelled ...
"

7/11/2012 at 3:31 AM

This turns everything on its head - from what Mansell has written it seems that Ansela [Ansela Campher (van de Kaap), SM/PROG } was originally called Baauw - one of the two daughters that arrived with their parents from Timor -

"On 20 March 1676 Amsoeboe, his wife Inabe and two daughters Iba and Baauw – a politically exiled, but un‐enslaved, family from Timor is sent from Batavia [Jakarta on the Indonesian island of Java] on the hooker Goudvink 3 to Mauritius – a VOC outpost (buitenpost) governed from the Cape of Good Hope which latter colony is itself governed from Batavia [Jakarta] on Java."

Please read this paper - it needs to be taken very seriously! See the notes I have edited and offer opinion please!!

7/11/2012 at 4:02 AM

Perhaps Amsoeboe and Inabe/Ansela should be the SV/SM - not Ansela

7/11/2012 at 12:43 PM

Am printing it out now to go and read, June. Looks like quite a find. Wow! She is my 9th ggranny.

7/12/2012 at 5:51 PM

Thank you, June, for picking this up and bringing it to our notice.

Thank you, Mansell, for bringing this long awaited and longed for report to light. We have up till now only had indirect reports of a splattering of the work you have been busy on. Now you have brought it to light. I know that I speak for many genealogists (if I may) in expressing our appreciation for you solving the riddle of, amongst others, Ansela van de Kaap, and doing it in your well-known comprehensive and well-researched manner. It does indeed belong under the banner of "Remarkable Writing".

Thank you also to Delia Robertson for creating a platform and medium through which such work can reach us - we have much appreciation for your work as well.

7/12/2012 at 10:38 PM

https://www.facebook.com/FirstFiftyYearsProject

First Fifty Years have a FaceBook page - I am sure your comments would be appreciated there Petrie!

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