Pépin II, seigneur de Péronne - Rothaïde de Bobbio

Started by Private User on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
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Private User
10/17/2012 at 12:11 AM

Are there any sources to his relationship with Rothaïde de Bobbio?

10/17/2012 at 9:19 AM

Rothaïde de Bobbio (Fictitious) appears to be "traditional". The wife of Pépin II, seigneur de Péronne is officially unknown.

For clues, see Daniel de Raulaudre's database at http://roglo.eu/roglo?lang=en;i=808261.

He lists as his source F-L. Jacquier, by which he means http://img.roglo.eu/~F-L.Jacquier/notices_externes/JACQUIER.pdf. No further information there, just an Ahnentafel.

Rauglaudre's supplemental sources are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepin,_Count_of_Vermandois

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A9pin_(Herbertien)

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKISH%20NOBILITY.htm#Pepindiedaf...

All of these agree that Pépin's wife is unknown.

The next step will be to check James Anderson's Royal Genealogies (1732):

http://books.google.com/books?id=yrqeY839bMwC&printsec=frontcov...

This is on my list of things to do, but you might get to it sooner. Anderson is the ur-source for many of the royal genealogies we see in English. Finding a line in Anderson means that it was current in the 18th century. If a line is not in Anderson, it is perhaps a modern fake.

You can download the book as a .pdf free from Google Books, but you will find that it is pointless to use the search function. The download is variously available or not available, depending on the status of Google's licensing battles.

You can also check WorldCat to see if it is in a library near you: http://www.worldcat.org/search?qt=worldcat_org_all&q=james+ande...

Finally, you can also buy a copy. It is available in reprint (print on demand) for about $100, or in an original edition for between $662 and $1690 (currently). Probably worth buying an original edition if you're serious about medieval genealogy ;)

Private User
10/17/2012 at 11:37 AM

I look all over that document and I could only find his father, page 550, "Bernard King of Italy had his Eyes put out, A. D. 818."

Private User
10/17/2012 at 11:49 AM

Sorry, page 450.

Private User
10/17/2012 at 12:13 PM

I can't find a source for a Rothaïde de Bobbio anywhere.

10/17/2012 at 12:19 PM

Are you saying Pépin isn't there either? If he's not, then we haven't learned anything. If he is there but not Rothaïde we need a harder look for just when she enters the world of European genealogy. We'll want to check the Marquis de Ruvigny, and others from the same period to see if they have her.

Private User
10/17/2012 at 12:27 PM

He's not there, only his father.

10/17/2012 at 12:32 PM

And Turton?

10/17/2012 at 12:38 PM

Sorry. Moving too fast this morning. What I meant to say is that I meant we should check Turton. This line probably isn't in Ruvigny, but maybe. Turton should be available at NYPL, so easy for you. I think his MS. notes are at NEHGS in Boston, but maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

Private User
10/17/2012 at 1:09 PM
Private User
10/17/2012 at 1:13 PM

I think Rothaïde de Bobbio is a modern invention. I can find no mention of her prior to the 20th century.

Private User
10/17/2012 at 1:15 PM
Private User
10/17/2012 at 1:21 PM
10/17/2012 at 1:45 PM

I'll bet you're right. She's not listed in Michel Call's Royal Ancestors of Some LDS Families, nor in Roderick Stuart's Royalty for Commoners -- two books that grabbed at everything they could find.

There was an LDS family who in the 1950s and later invented many royal lines. I can't think of their name right now, but their book was very popular for awhile in genealogy circles. She could be from that.

I have no objection to labeling her as fictional, leaving her marriage so we have a point of reference, but detaching her from any children so people don't repeat the mistake.

Your link doesn't get the full Turton, so I'll make a note to follow up and in Settipani's La préhistoire des Capétiens.

Private User
10/17/2012 at 2:00 PM

I'm even looking at sources of her father and I can't find any children or wife attached to him.

Private User
10/17/2012 at 2:02 PM

Shall we moved all the children to N.N. du Vexin?

10/17/2012 at 2:11 PM

Yes, that's what would work best, and cite it as a speculation by Settipani (and that other guy).

Private User
10/17/2012 at 2:30 PM

What about ? Where does she come from?

10/19/2012 at 8:57 AM

I didn't get back to you in time, Victar. Whatever the question was, it looks good now. Thanks for all your hard work.

Private User
10/19/2012 at 9:11 AM

Sure. Thanks.

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