MyHeritage -- Snaps Up Geni.com

Started by Peter Rohel on Wednesday, November 28, 2012

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Profiles Mentioned:

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Showing 751-780 of 789 posts
Private User
5/6/2013 at 5:16 PM

"Fully optional", he says.. "You can ignore them", he says. BUT they grab at you and yank you around the tree whether that's what you wanted to look at or not.

It's not possible to ignore THAT.

Private User
5/6/2013 at 5:29 PM

I've seen people sleep in train stations! I'd submit it's possible to ignore anything if you make up your mind to it...

Private User
5/6/2013 at 5:30 PM

It is possible. I don't have any problem ignoring them but always look for tree matches. If someone else has acted on the Smart Matches, the color is gone

5/6/2013 at 5:32 PM

They grab at you? Yank you around the tree??

Maven, I think you're seeing something very different than I am.

When the curators were testing the new system, I was very clear about my opinion -- I work for a living and this is nothing but a plot to steal what's left of my free time and turn me into an addict ;)

Even so, I've been able to navigate Geni easily, without anything grabbing me until I poke it. Then, of course, I won't be going to bed anytime soon because there is genealogy to do.

Private User
5/6/2013 at 5:54 PM

Slight error on my previous post. There were not 10 siblings, there were 17! Now all on Geni.

Private User
5/6/2013 at 5:59 PM

Mark & David cannot answer on census images. They went live with the link not even 3 days ago, have not tested, & the answers in details best come from Geni / MH on their blog & help platforms. If its not there yet give them a little time. It's a very big software implementation.

Private User
5/6/2013 at 6:03 PM

On the question of what do non data subscribers see? I would expect its the thumbnail, correct. The servers are not integrated. There is the roundtripping future phase which I'll worry about when it happens.

Private User
5/6/2013 at 6:22 PM

Justin - they don't seem to be doing it now. Maybe it was a temporary malfunction (Geni gets weird from time to time), or maybe my mouse was too sensitive and interpreted a rollover as a selection.

5/6/2013 at 6:32 PM

@erica - I don't know how long the MyH price break will last, so I can't really give it time. I won't buy the MyH Data Subscription until I know if I can place the image on Geni. I don't see any definitive answer on the existing Geni or MyH blogs or FAQs. I don't believe that I will get a straight answer by asking the folks at Geni or MyH. So I'm in a bit of a quandary.

Would anyone with a MyH Data Subscription care to run a test to see if you can capture the jpg or pdf image of a Matching Record, and upload it somehow to the corresponding Geni.com profile?

Private User
5/6/2013 at 6:36 PM

Mark I'm sure it will be clarified by MH within a few days. They have not been tardy on answers at all!

I'm on iPad so cannot "save to disk.".

5/6/2013 at 6:42 PM

Mark Melmed Yes, you can download the actual census page to your comp and then upload it to Geni if you wish.

I just went and double, triple checked for you before opening my big mouth ;) Here is a link to the profile of my 2x great grandfather, who has a match to a census on MH: Abraham Gudka

As you can see, the GUI places a small icon of the census on the profile, which you can then click and look at on MH (if you have a subscription). However, if you have the Mh subscription owner, you are able to download the census record directly to your comp and should you want to upload it to Geni and put it on the profile under the media or source tabs you can.

It's pretty cool actually. They do have records for other countries as well. The only time there isn't anything to download is a birth or death record since those are generally only attainable by ordering them from the appropriate state.

Also, with the tree matches, you can view public profiles on the trees, but not private ones, so if you get a match to someone deceased, but one of the relatives you click on is marked on MH as living then the info is private much like it is on Geni.

I'm going offline for the night, but if you send me a message to my inbox here I will get it on my blackberry for the next hour or so and will happily answer any other questions you have. Also, just keep in mind that they will be developing the matches and capabilities even further in the future, so might as well get in early when the price is a bit lower ;) I grumbled at first too, but I think it's worth it, especially if you don't have access to those records elsewhere.

It does work! I promise you :))

W.

5/6/2013 at 6:45 PM

Private User I just logged out of MH and reloaded the profile for Abraham Gudka

As a non-subscriber since I wasn't logged into MH, I see the cute icon of the census and when I mouse over it, it shows me the transcribed text per the below with the option to click to see the actual record. When you click you get the page asking you to subscribe.

Albert Gudka
Added May 4, 2013 by Wendi Newman

Collection:
1900 United States Federal Census
Birth:
Sep 1850 - Russia
Residence:
1900 - New York City, Kings, New York, USA
Wife:
Lautine Gudka
Children:
Fannie Gudka, Minnie Gudka, Bella Gudka, Paulean Gudka, Rosa Gudka

5/6/2013 at 6:48 PM

Also, if you look under the source tab of Abraham Gudka you see the census record from MH with the transcribed text as well. That was put there automatically by the system. However, you can just as easily d/l the image from MH and upload it to the profile as a public document so your family/friend/etc can see the full image.

5/6/2013 at 6:50 PM

@Erica. I asked MyH. I'll post any answer I get from them here.

If anyone can find an answer, I would appreciate it.

5/6/2013 at 6:52 PM

Mark Melmed Read my posts above....

Private User
5/6/2013 at 6:57 PM

Mark, if you can see it on your screen, then you can make an image out of it (on records like Census & Newspapers they give you a download button) and you can certainly upload an image as a document to a Geni profile. So from a technical standpoint - it is easily done. What I was unsure of is the copyright agreement and the license granted as part of the data subscription. Does it give you the legal right to copy and then upload to the public. I don't know, may be perfectly fine (not even sure you can copyright an census image), but I didn't want to say yes without knowing as these things can be tricky.

5/6/2013 at 6:57 PM

@Wendi: You are terrific! In fact, you are all terrific for helping me.

I am going to run and become a Subscriber right after watching Castle.

Thanks again.

5/6/2013 at 6:59 PM

You're most welcome Mark. It will keep you busy for awhile for sure ;)

Feel free to ask me any questions if anything pops up. I'll have my blackberry on for about an hour and get my Geni inbox messages there.

Have fun!

5/6/2013 at 7:01 PM

Private User I don't know the technical legal answer on that one either, but I do know that I have uploaded census records to profiles on Geni d/l'd from other sources before and so far no one has showed up at my door to take me away... um, yet ;p

Private User
5/6/2013 at 7:02 PM

I'm watching Castle too. :)

Private User
5/6/2013 at 7:26 PM

Copyright IS tricky, and there's rarely a cut-and-dried answer. In the case of the U.S. Census, most of the actual records are in the public domain - so there shouldn't be a problem, right? Except, if you're making a copy of an image you found online, that image is probably proprietary. In other words, the individual or agency that got permission or paid a fee to make a copy of the census and then put it online can claim copy right to their image - not to the actual census itself.

In reality, no one is going to prosecute a violation of census copyright in court. It's too expensive and the courts are overwhelmed. There could still be consequences for violating copyright, though - it's against the TOUs of Geni and most other sites and could get you kicked off; it sets a bad example; it's unethical; and widespread violation of copyrights results in higher costs to companies that provide the records - which results in higher costs to subscribers. Us.

I am not an attorney. This is my rudimentary understanding of relevant copyright issues, based on years of working in a patent and copyright law office. It's not meant as a substitute for legal advice, nor as a permission slip to break the law. Yada yada yada. Best, always, to err on the side of caution!

Not watching Castle - although I wish I were. ;-)

5/6/2013 at 8:22 PM

@Jennifer, what you wrote about about copyright of images of census records is not correct. A copy of a public domain record is itself public domain. There is nothing original in the copy, which is a requirement for copyright protection. Copyright doesn't depend on how much it cost or even how much work it took, but on authorship of original material.

Private User
5/6/2013 at 8:46 PM

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, Randy! Which is totally fine. But it's my understanding that Ancestry, for instance, licenses the use of the census records from the owner - the U.S. Government. As part of that license, Ancestry asserts and is granted the right to restrict the further duplication of the records it has licensed. This does not constitute a copyright of the material - it's a copyright of Ancestry's copy of the material. It's a fine point, but I've seen it argued and upheld.

Just as a photographer could take a photo of the Mona Lisa - back when you could get permission from the Louvre to take photos - and would own the rights to his photo. It could not be duplicated without his permission.

Neither Ancestry's use of the census records, nor our long-ago photographer of the Mona Lisa, gain ownership nor rights to the source material, and their use of such material does not restrict others from doing exactly what they did. It *does* grant them ownership of *their* copies, and prevents others from using their copies without appropriate permissions.

The Mona Lisa is an example that's widely used in copyright explanations because it illustrates that the issue really comes down to one of access... public domain doesn't mean ownership. A license or copy *can* be owned.

Private User
5/6/2013 at 8:47 PM

My third sentence should have read, "...owner - the U.S. Government. As part of that license, Ancestry asserts and is granted the right to restrict the further duplication of *its copies of* the records it has licensed.

5/6/2013 at 9:15 PM

Ok. I don't want to step on your toes, but unlike you, I am an attorney. I also know a thing or two about copyright law. So, you can "agree to disagree," but I wouldn't want any others to be misled by your opinions. Ownership of the physical object is not the same as copyright. Those are two distinct property rights. So, you can own the painting, and you can even restrict access to the painting, but that does not give you any copyright. You might take a look at Bridgeman Art Library, Ltd. v. Corel Corp., 36 F.Supp.2d 191 (S.D.N.Y. 1999) (holding that reproductions of public domain artworks do not satisfy originality requirements for US copyright). So, using your example, an exact photo reproduction of the Mona Lisa could be copied by anyone because the photographer would have no copyright in the photograph. Similarly, copying a census record might violate the terms of service of the provider, but not the copyright. Lots of people get this wrong, so you are not the only one.

Private User
5/6/2013 at 9:26 PM

So really this is property rights and not copyright? That's an interesting distinction, thanks.

Private User
5/6/2013 at 9:35 PM

Okay, Randy, thanks for the explanation! It's always good to get more information. Perhaps I misunderstood the information my attorney has given me concerning my copyrights as a photographer and artist. I'll give him what you said and find out where I went wrong, or where his opinion differs from yours.

Private User
5/6/2013 at 9:52 PM

Randy! I asked my attorney/friend/former employer where I'd misunderstood and he said I should just shut up now, lol!

He said that it can be complex and is often misunderstood (as you said). He said there's a reason he gets paid to do this stuff and I don't - which reminds me of the time I was singing along with the radio and a friend nicely commented that the radio singer gets *paid* to sing... He's right, and this is me shutting up now!

(Okay, he was nicer than that, but that's the bottom line...) Sheesh. ;-)

5/7/2013 at 6:25 AM

No problem. I am grateful and impressed that you checked with him. As I said, lots of folks make mistakes in this area (Gary Mokotoff just made the same mistake in his Jewish genealogy e-newsletter last week.). I lost the only big copyright case I brought (concerning the Pink Panther) on a 3-0 decision in the 9th Circuit. None of the judges understood the argument. My only consolation was when David Nimmer, who edits his father's treatise on copyright, agreed with me and wrote in his book that the ruling was wrong and made no sense. I must not have been a good enough lawyer to get through to them. As I said, copyright is not easy.
Randy

Private User
5/7/2013 at 7:16 AM

A. When I worked at Kinko's I hated having to try to explain copyright issues, so I feel your pain - just on a much smaller scale.

B. Pink Panther = awesome

C. Does this also apply to the images attached to the JRI-Poland indexes as there is all sorts of "copyright stuff" and I wouldn't want to cause any trouble for myself or the JRI-Poland people.

Showing 751-780 of 789 posts

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