Andries du Preez, b4c1d5 - Father

Started by Peter Dennis on Monday, February 11, 2013

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Profiles Mentioned:

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2/11/2013 at 12:46 AM

I am not convinced that this profile is placed correctly.
Date of birth 1733 ,father already murdered 1731?
Children by Hester are those described as being fathered by Andries x Hester descended from Hercules x Johanna d Maker, (which i think is the correct place.) Mauritz's caution about merges arises i think from these facts.
I have got here from the bottom upwards and all evidence points to this connection being wrong.

Private User
2/11/2013 at 1:06 AM

If one reads the about me of Hercules du Preez b4 c1 it says the following:

MHC Du Preez, The Du Preez Family in South Africa, pg 119, #827

xx Dorothea BEKKER (d.o. Peter BEKKER & Johanna DE KLERK), ∗ ±__.__.1708, † __.__.1770

»α This was an extra marital and adulterous relationship as she was married to Gerrit Oosthuysen. Hercules' own wife was deceased at that time

Andries was baptized in 1733 but he might have been born earlier. I have looked at the baptism entries that I have for Drakenstein but cannot find his there.

2/11/2013 at 1:15 AM

I also have Thys du Preez as source . Have a look on www.familiestories.co.za.There is a lengthy document about Andries's son Andries x Sara Oelofse and their family.

2/11/2013 at 1:35 AM

I have Hercules as being murdered in 1738?

2/11/2013 at 1:44 AM

The entries in SAG vol 8 covering the mentioned profiles were all researched by Thys du Preez in "Die Du Preez-Familie in S.A."

Apparently Andries was from an extra marital and adulterous relationship with Bekker and SAG currently reflects only a baptism date of 1733.
The next older sibling was born in 1729, which does not make a birth year of c. 1731 for Andries improbable, bearing in mind that if Bekker was the "baptism mother", a baptism in 1733, could well be
I think we should refer this query also to Thys to get his inputs.

2/11/2013 at 1:50 AM

Sorry if this looks like repition, but I started typing just after the discussion showed up. Ansu an Lea beated me with 38 mins.
I do type that slow and have a coffee in between!

Private User
2/11/2013 at 1:59 AM

I have also found reference of Hercules being murdered in 1738 in the book “Pioneers, Plunderers and Patriots”. Unfortunately I could not copy the paragraph out of the book as it is one of those Google book reviews. In this book it talks about Dorothea Bekker and her relationship with Hercules, mentioning that he was murdered in 1738. I found the mooc document for his wife. She dies in 1730. I also found a mooc document for Hercules du Preez died 1738. So maybe SAG has his death date incorrectly.

2/11/2013 at 5:10 AM

I find evidence for extramarital adventures by Dorothea but not with Hercules.
http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g7/p7720.htm
My main concern was which Andries fathered Hesters children.

2/11/2013 at 5:23 AM

consider also the death date of Hercules who was married to Johanna de Maker. It fits with the murder date but not with a marriage to hr .Murdered in 1738, married 1740.

2/11/2013 at 7:06 AM

I miss the last point - we refer to 2 different people

b6c11 Hercules ≈ Drakenstein 21.1.1720 x 1.10.1740
Johanna DE MAKER (wed. v. Louis Swarts)

b4c1 Hercules ≈ Drakenstein 2.10.1707 † c. 1731/1738 deur slaaf
vermoor x Marthe DES PREZ ≈ c. 1703 † 22.3.1730

Private User
2/11/2013 at 8:02 AM

If you look at the birth order and naming pattern of the children of Andries du Preez and Hester Pienaar one can come to the conclusion that Andries was the son of b4c1 Hercules ≈ Drakenstein 2.10.1707 † c. 1731/1738 deur slaaf vermoor and Dorothea Bekker. 1st son named after father's father, 2nd son after mother's father, 3rd son after father. 1st daughter after mother's mother, 2nd daughter after father's mother and 3rd daughter after mother, etc.

2/11/2013 at 8:07 AM

Each are indicated as having a son Andries married to Hester Ferreira
Therefor the original point ...Andries being incorrectly placed.
On geni the profile of b6 c11 Hercules is indicated as dying in 1738 (as does b4c1 )
The children of which are described in the book as children of andries (b6c11 d1) are on geni described as being the children of (b4c1d5)

Private User
2/11/2013 at 9:19 AM

Which source are you working with? And which book are you talking about? Geslagsregisters van die Ou Kaapse Families has it the way you are proposing it should be. SAG has it the way it is now on Geni with Andries married to Hester Ferreira as the son of b4c1. Maybe the Geni profile of b6c11 on Geni was placed using the info out of Die geslagsregisters van die ou kaapse families.

From SAG:

b4 Francois-Jean ≈ St. Maartinskerk, Courtrai a. saam
met ouers, woon eers “Hexenberg”, dist. Wellington
en 1712 “Langfontein”, dist. Tulbagh x c. 1705 Marie
CORDIER d.v. Louis Cordier (Cortje) en Francoise
Martinet

c1 Hercules ≈ Drakenstein 2.10.1707 † c. 1731 deur slaaf
vermoor x Marthe DES PREZ ≈ c. 1703 † 22.3.1730
d.v. Philippe des Prez en Elizabeth Prevot

d5 Andries ≈ Drakenstein 8.11.1733 (moeder: Dorothea
Bekkers) † voor 16.7.1786 x Hester FERREIRA ≈
18.6.1741 d.v. Ignatius Ferreira v. Lissabon en Martha
Terblanche (sy xx 16.7.1786 Johan Jacob Kritzinger,
wew.)

b6 Philippe * Courtrai, boer op “Klipvallei”, dist.
Wellington en ook op “Artois” en “De Hoop” in die
Land v. Waveren (Tulbagh) † De Hoop 21.5.1721 x
Elizabeth PRÉVOT * Marq naby Calais c. 1683 †
Tulbagh 18.1.1750 d.v. die meester wamaker Charles
Prévot en Marie le Fevre

c11 Hercules ≈ Drakenstein 21.1.1720 x 1.10.1740
Johanna DE MAKER (wed. v. Louis Swarts)
d1 Johanna Elizabeth ≈ 27.8.1741 x Johan Adam
MICHIELS
d2 Maria Jacoba ≈ 13.4.1743 x Alewyn SMIT
d3 Philippus Lodewicus ≈ 22.8.1745 x 8.5.1766 Maria
DE BRUYN ≈ 23.2.1749 d.v. Pieter de Bruyn en
Margaretha de Villiers

Erkenning en verwysing na: Die Du Preez-Familie in S.A.
1688-1988 saamgestel deur M.H.C. du Preez

From Geslagsregisters van die Ou Kaapse Families:

b1 Philippe
* Kortryk, 1699 eienaar van "Klipvallei" in Wagenmakersvallei (Wellington),
getroud: Elisabeth Prévot, gebore: Marcq, naby Calais, 1683, gesterf:
Tulbagh 18 Jan 1750, dogter van: Charles Prévot

c10 Hercules

gedoop: 21 Jan 1720, burger Drakenstein, getroud: 1 Oct 1740 Johanna
de Maker, weduwee van: Louis Swart

d1 Andries
getroud: Hester Ferreira

b6 Francois
getroud: Maria Cordier

c1 Hercules
getroud: Martha du Preez

As you can see the 2 sources differ completely.

Private User
2/11/2013 at 9:23 AM

Also go and look at his web page:

http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/dpreezg/

2/11/2013 at 1:21 PM

Who do we follow?

Private User
2/11/2013 at 9:10 PM

I would say we should follow SAG. SAG also has many mistakes but Geslagsregisters has many more and is outdated. And one can see that SAG has used the book by MHC du Preez as reference. So my suggestion is that Andries who is now on Geni the son of Hercules and de Maker needs to be moved to his correct place and merged with the other Andries. I think that is what Mauritz meant by his curator note. Because some people use SAG and others use Geslagsregisters.

2/12/2013 at 12:30 AM

I support your proposal Lea. I think we must notify all involved managers to have their understanding and acceptance, and the move on. I will add this discussion as areference in both profiles.

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