Patrick Buchanan, 14th Laird of Buchanan - Has there been a merge mix-up here?

Started by Sharon Doubell on 2013年5月29日(星期三)

Profiles Mentioned:

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2013年5月29日上午 8点37分

Geni now has two Patrick Buchanans - This one and another: Patrick Buchanan (added by Alan Douglas Forsyth Buchanan) as the father of the famous humanist, George Buchanan.

But the dates don't match, and neither do the wives/mothers of George.
This profile has: Margaret Buchanan but Alan's one has Agnes Buchanan. Wikipedia seems to agree with the latter "George's mother, Agnes Heriot, was of the family of the Heriots of Trabroun, East Lothian" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Buchanan

But this profile, curated by Ben M. Angel numbers of sources that I find a bit confusing but am loathe to make any changes to sort out the tree conflict without input from everyone else who may this profile better than me.

Thoughts anyone? Help anyone :-)

2013年5月29日上午 8点40分

But this profile, curated by Ben M. Angel, HAS numbers of sources that I find a bit confusing, but am loathe to make any changes to sort out the tree conflict without input from everyone else who may KNOW this profile better than me.

sorry for the omitted words!

2013年6月1日下午 8点19分

Sharon

I am really fine with what ever can be decided, I had no wife or descendants for Patrick but I had originally entered him as the son of Walter Buchanan (m. Isabel Stewart), and Walter as the son of John Buchanan & Janet the heiress of Leny. Which Walter's parents seem to be wrong as on the Clan Buchanan he seems to be listed as the son of 11th – Sir Walter Buchanan & Margaret, brother of the John Buckanan.

It would seem there has been some confusion with all the Walter's and Patrick's in the line, would you prefer to follow what Wiki has about the Clan Buchanan at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Buchanan ?

Even this seems confusing.

If following the Clan Buchanan then this profile for Patrick Buchanan, 14th Laird of Buchanan seems to be the son of 14th – Walter Buchanan and father of George Buchanan whose mother was daughter of the Earl of Argyle (who I think is the Campbell line http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Argyll )

Clan Buchanan
14th – Walter Buchanan,[75][76] (Guthrie Smith identifies him as 8th Chief and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 15th Chief) married Isobel Graham and by her four sons (Patrick [Guthrie Smith identifies him as 9th Chief but then goes on to advise that the Chiefship passed from Patrick’s father to Patrick’s son[77] and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 16th Chief[76] ] who married the daughter of the Earl of Argyle and by her had George who succeeded his grandfather

But then George's mother on Wikipedia is listed as Agnes Heriot, could she be a dau. of the Earl of Argyle?

Near the beginning of Clan Buchanan it states
During the Anglo-Scottish Wars the Clan Buchanan fought against the English at the Battle of Flodden Field in 1513 where the chief's elder son Patrick was killed. However Patrick had already married a daughter of the Earl of Argyll and had two sons and daughters.

2013年6月1日下午 8点23分

Also on the Wiki page for George Buchanan it does not state who his father is nor anything else about the Buchanan line.

2013年6月2日上午 1点43分

Ahh, thanks for answering, - Me, I know nothing here - just that it is causing a tree conflict lower down! Fools rush in and all that... :-)

Ben M. Angel's thoughts were: "I think that Patrick Buchanan, 7th/14th Laird, is not likely George's father. The other Patrick might be" and he was happy for us to do cutting or rewiring :-) , but I would much prefer if it be done by someone (or in tandem with someone) with more knowledge than me.

2013年6月2日上午 1点45分

Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy, Vol. Curator - instead of finding you with the @ symbol, Geni deleted your name in my message above. Sorry. Re-calling you :-)

2013年6月2日下午 2点02分

Sharon Doubell & Ben M. Angel

Here is this about George which lists his father as Thomas, I don't know why George's wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Buchanan left out his father and did not list it as Thomas, it is one of the sources in the notes.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Buchanan,_George_(1506-1582)_(DNB00)
BUCHANAN, GEORGE (1506–1582), historian and scholar, third son of Thomas Buchanan, a son of Buchanan of Drumnakill, a poor laird, and Agnes Heriot, was born at the farm of Mid Leowen, or the Moss, in the parish of Killearn in Stirlingshire, in February 1506. At an early age he lost his father.

2013年6月3日上午12点40分

Great stuff. Thank you for finding it.

2013年6月3日上午 3点06分

Okay, I've re-ordered according to those sources, with a new profile: Thomas Buchanan, as George's father.
This still leaves Patrick as Agnes' 2nd husband - for which we have no sources.
I've alerted Alan Douglas Forsyth Buchanan whose profiles are the ones involved to come and take a look and help out.

2013年6月3日上午 3点08分

Adding the new profile - Thomas Buchanan, third of Drummikill and Moss's link here so it is easy to reference directly from this Discussion.

2013年6月3日上午 7点56分

I Googled George Buchanan and Elizabeth Leckie and came across My Family Tree by Claire Keller and came across a rather big family tree with a lot of info, it seems to be well reseached. please have a look at it and let us know what you think about it.

2013年6月3日上午 8点00分

Will do, Alan - I'm presently trying to stabilise it all around the wikipedia Buchanan list:
=Chiefs of Clan Buchanan=
*7th – Anselan McCausland,[63][65] (Guthrie Smith identifies him as the 7th Laird of Buchanan and commences his numbering of Chiefs from him.) Seneschal to Earl of Lennox in about 1225[66] and obtained the charter for the Loch Lomond island of Clareinch (the Clan’s call to war and alternately rendered as Clairinch or Clar Innis), had three sons (Gilbert his successor, Methlin the ancestor of the MacMillans, and Coleman the ancestor of the MacColemans).[67]
*8th – Gilbert Buchanan,[63][68] (Guthrie Smith identifies him as 2nd Chief and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 8th Chief) whose son and successor was Maurice.
*9th – Sir Maurice Buchanan,[68][69] (Guthrie Smith identifies him as 3rd Chief and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 9th Chief) had three sons (Maurice his successor, Allan who married the heiress of Leny and John the first ancestor of the cadets of Auchneiven).
*10th – Sir Maurice Buchanan,[68][69] (Guthrie Smith identifies him as 4th Chief and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 10th Chief) lived to a considerable age, married the daughter of Sir William Menteith of Rusk and by her a son and successor (Walter).
*11th – Sir Walter Buchanan,[69][70] (Guthrie Smith identifies him as 5th Chief and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 11th Chief) married Margaret and had three sons (Walter his successor, Alexander who reputedly killed the Duke of Clarence at the battle of Beaugé in 1421 and who later died in the battle of Verneuil in 1424, and John [Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 12th Chief ] who married Janet the heiress of Leny and was the first ancestor of the cadets of Leny) and two daughters (Elizabeth and Jean).
*12th – Sir Walter Buchanan,[71][72] (Guthrie Smith identifies him as 6th Chief and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 13th Chief) first married an unidentified women and by her three sons (Patrick his successor, Walter and Thomas first ancestor of cadets of Gartincaber,[73] Drumikill and Carbeth) and one daughter. He married secondly to Isobel Stewart.
*13th – Patrick Buchanan,[74][75] (Guthrie Smith identifies him as 7th Chief and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 14th Chief) married Jonet Cunningham of Galbraith and by her a son (Walter his successor) and a daughter (Anabella). He also had an illegitimate son (Patrick).
*14th – Walter Buchanan,[75][76] (Guthrie Smith identifies him as 8th Chief and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 15th Chief) married Isobel Graham and by her four sons (Patrick [Guthrie Smith identifies him as 9th Chief but then goes on to advise that the Chiefship passed from Patrick’s father to Patrick’s son[77]and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 16th Chief[76] ] who married the daughter of the Earl of Argyle and by her had George who succeeded his grandfather; John first ancestor of cadets of Arnprior; Maurice; and Walter first ancestor of cadets of Spittal) and two daughters (Margaret and Elizabeth).
*15th – George Buchanan,[76][77] (Guthrie Smith identifies him as 10th Chief and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 17th Chief) succeed his grandfather, Walter 14th of Buchanan, in 1526 and died 1560. He first married Margaret Edmonstone and by her a son (John [Guthrie Smith identifies him as 11th Chief but then goes on to advise that the Chiefship passed from John’s father to John’s son[78] and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 18th Chief[79]] who married Elizabeth Livingston and by her had George[79] who succeeded his grandfather) and two daughters (Helen and Susanna). Second he married Janet Cunningham and by her had a son (William first ancestor of the cadets of Auchmar) and a daughter (Margaret).
*16th – Sir George Buchanan,[78][79] (Guthrie Smith identifies him as 12th Chief and Buchanan of Auchmar identifies him as 19th Chief) succeed his grandfather, George 15th of Buchanan, in 1561, married Lady Mary Graham and by her one son (John his successor) and two daughters (Helen and Susanna).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Buchanan

2013年6月3日下午 1点22分

Okay,after 8 solid hours of re-wiring, I think I have the line sorted out.
The problems appear to have been caused by a mismerge between George Buchanan - the famous Scottish humanist 1506-1582) and his distant relative George Buchanan of that Ilk, 15th Chief of Buchanan 15th Laird of Buchanan - d1560)

Hope everyone is happy with the result.

2013年6月3日下午 5点14分

Thank you Sharon Doubell

I have collected some other references for the Buchanan line and will source some of the Profiles with them.

2013年6月4日上午12点00分

Ahh, Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy, Vol. Curator, you're a star!

I didn't expect that the birdsnest would travel quite so far up the tree, so I've also got help along the way from Ben M. Angel & Private User, and I think I saw Justin Swanström in there somewhere too.

It ended up crossing quite a few "Curator Territories" and I didn't want to stop until all the fall-out profiles had been sorted out, in case profiles left hanging were re-merged back into the birdsnest in the wrong places again.

I'll set up a project with the template I used, so people can make changes on that too - These Laird numbers, for example: - a different system was being used in three different eras on the tree. I chose the one that correlated with the most Clan info - and also fitted the independent biography data of George the humanist.
But this means that I had to change some of the naming as I went back, to keep the samename cousins and heirs from being merged into each other.
No intention to cast it in stone, though. My interest was in George the humanist - so please all come and neaten up, add in and take over profiles that were in your area. I've added in Curator notes wherever I could and will do more today - but this is simply to prevent all the mis-merges happening again. Please, please take those profiles over where you want them.

2013年6月4日上午 1点37分

I’ve started a Buchanan Clan project http://www.geni.com/projects/Buchanan-Clan/14801 that you’re all invited to come & collaborate on.

I’m putting up a work-in-progress Template to function as a stabilizing record outside the profiles themselves - of how we think the main Laird line should look, and invite everyone managing these profiles over all the generations to come and contribute; change; start Discussions about the ambivalences.

Please come and help. I'm sure many people will have expertise in this area.

2013年6月28日下午12点44分

There is a problem with the birth dates between Patrick Buchanan of that Ilk, 13th Chief of Buchanan and his son Walter Buchanan of that Ilk, 14th Chief of Buchanan
I have changed Walter's date to a later date (c. 1443) previously (c. 1439) but it is still an earlier date then his father Patrick.

Is it possible that Patrick was born earlier than c.1445?

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