Sir Walter Plummer - This. Profile. Is. FRAGGED!

Started by Private User on Sunday, November 3, 2013

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Private User
11/3/2013 at 11:42 PM

There is something HUMONGOUSLY wrong with this profile. It cannot be merged, even with a stripped-bare shell profile. Attempts to do so result in a crash with "Technical Difficulties".

He is not the father of Francis Plummer, of Newbury Francis Plummer of Newbury, MA (whose parents were John Plummer and Elizabeth Driver).

He is probably not the father of Thomas Plummer, of Anne Arundel Thomas Plummer of Anne Arundel, MD.

He may be the founder of the Plummer family of Bermuda.

OR he may be the Sir Walter Plummer who was conned by Robert Wright circa 1660 or thereabouts, as a means of getting Wright out of debt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wright_%28judge%29

But he can be only one of these - not both.

Private User
11/4/2013 at 1:44 AM

You're right - the profile is fragged. Let's go with the new guy

Sir Walter Plummer

I moved your notes over and cut loose the old guy. Maybe someone will have success some other day.

11/4/2013 at 5:24 PM

I agree. There was a Sir Walter Plummer, but there isn't any reliable evidence to connect him with anyone.

Private User
11/4/2013 at 5:35 PM

Thanks Linda! I read that "90% of American Plummers descend from 3 unrelated immigrants : of Anne Arundel, of Newbury, and of VA"

My luck, I'll be in all 3 lines. :)

Private User
11/4/2013 at 6:45 PM

There's a fourth set of Plummers - a bunch that just popped up in central Pennsylvania in the mid-18th century. Y-DNA testing says they aren't related to ANY of the others (they're R1a1a, the Massachusetts lot are R1b1a2, the Virginia/NC lot are I2b2, and the Anne Arundel lot were originally G(2a3b1) - but have had Non-Parental Events on several lines of descent).

11/5/2013 at 12:27 PM

Holy Cow! Is DNA testing the only way to sort them out?

Private User
11/5/2013 at 6:32 PM

With the Anne Arundel Plummers, pretty much yes. They're fairly well documented in Maryland, but as soon as they move out, things get murky. What makes them desirable in a lineage is that connection through Elizabeth Stockett/Yate Plummer - she (presumably) had very distant royal ancestors. So everybody tries to tie into *them*, and not into the Massachusetts ones.

Nobody even knew the Pennsylvania Plummers were a separate line until some descendants got Y-DNA tested. There was a lot of wild-guessing about whether they came from Anne Arundel, or Massachusetts, or Virginia. Now there's a lot of head-scratching.

Then there's the Bermuda Plummers, which we don't have any/enough data on yet.

11/7/2013 at 7:28 AM

I've been working on the Elizabeth Kemp who married the New England Thomas Plummer. It looks like she may be related to the Plantagenets, too.

Private User
11/7/2013 at 8:18 AM

Erica Howton would probably know more about that - New England is her field of expertise.

Private User
11/7/2013 at 8:35 AM

maven.. Elizabeth "Betsy" Jones Plummer and linda bange are in my tree

Private User
11/7/2013 at 8:36 AM

oh and Ashley Odell knows a thing or two about bermuda maybe she could help with the thomas plumber there?

Private User
11/7/2013 at 8:50 AM

I'd like to see some Y-DNA results out of Bermuda, particularly on the Plummer and Mallory lines. Both of them just seem to appear out of nowhere in the islands, with no reliable documentation as to their antecedents. And both have been "attributed" to English families that they may or may not belong to.

Private User
11/7/2013 at 1:55 PM

Re William Thomas Plummer

Just a rule of thumb when pursuing Colonial American ancestry.

They came from England to Virginia OR

They came from England to New England.

They did NOT go from New England to Virginia in this period. (The few that did are well known).

Be highly suspicious of suggestions that a VA arriver married a Connecticut arriver. You don't need DNA testing to learn that.:)

I pursue my family lines from wherever they came. What happened is my New England arriving family married my Virginia arriving family - in 1924, in Oregon.

Private User
11/7/2013 at 3:44 PM

I left him stuck onto the Anne Arundel tree even though I knew he didn't belong there, because I hadn't any better place to put him. Probably he should be cut loose and left to fend for himself. :-D

11/20/2013 at 4:10 PM

Just wanted to tell you that Sir Walter Ploumer had a son named William and a father named William. I will find out dates later as I forgot them. Very Very sure that Walter was going from Virginia to the Bermudas, along with his brother John, or son, forgot which. Walter had done at least 3 trips back and forth with tobacco and supplies, did not mention slaves but that was probably the case. For some reason, the king of England had him beheaded, and he is buried there. His brother or son was imprisoned, but survived and came back to states.
5 of the relatives were beheaded by the king, including Elizabeth Stockett's grandma or great grandma, Francis White, Sir Richard Whites wife because she hid a Jesuit priest from British authorities when they were chasing Catholics. When Charles I of England was beheaded, the Ploumers related to Walter ran to Brittany, France for one year, waiting until Charles II could be put into power, but it never happened, and they ran out of money, so decided to go to America, 1591, I suppose, one year after Charles I was beheaded. The descendants of Walter shall be punished such to the degree including his son and grandson, the land in Virginia will be taken away. Or at least 2 generation later this happened, grandson could not even get the right to buy the land his grandparents were buried on in Virginia, one of the Thomas's. Back to Walter, I think his son later returned to england the end of his life and bought Sir Walter Raleigh house, and finished his life there, Anyway, it is one of Walters direct descendants who bought the house. I have the lineage at home, i am not at home right now, so i can post that in 3 weeks. I have also a lineage of these Plummers going all the way back to Plantag. and Charlemagne etc. However, there were over 10 kids or so for those first Plummers, and their brothers did the same, that is why there are too many to get to know, and to far from each other, so lost contact. There is one Walter Plummer born in N. Carolina late 1890s on a Cherokee Indian reservation, but have yet to see if he is a descendant of the 1590s Walter. Thomas Plummer Senior had children who went to North Carolina as well, and they also did tobacco, but heard that later on there were disputes about slavery inside the family in VA so splits happened, and no communication. Some went to Indiana early 1800 before it was a state, Levi Plummer, born 1777,(even tho grave says 1776.)

Private User
11/20/2013 at 4:21 PM

v Plummer fabulous family stories, they sound like colorful - and adventurous - people. I look forward to the Geni contributions. Thank you.

11/20/2013 at 4:21 PM

Francis is one of Walters descendants, Just wanted to say the Captain Stanley brought John Plummer over from England. One of the ships that precedes their coming was called, "The Ark." I found out a more but do not have access to my records for another 3 weeks. But it is true that the uncle would name one of his children after his brother as well as the others, that is why there are so many Thomas, Walter, Wiliam, Levi,s in the cousins, who will then go to live in seperate states.

11/20/2013 at 4:37 PM

oh yeah, some people are confused on Elizabeth Stockette, because after Captain Stockette died in VA, her mother remarried to Yates, so Elizabeth was called Elizabeth Yates, but it was her stepfather who wanted her to have that name. The Yates have noble ancestry, but truly speaking, Elizabeth is a Stockette, not a Yate, The Stockettes and Thomas Ploumer,Plummer have also noble, and royal ancestry.

11/20/2013 at 5:01 PM

Sorry, made a mistake on the Plummer grandson coming back to buy back the land in MARYLAND where his grandparents were buried (not VA.) but they refused to let him buy it,

Private User
12/15/2013 at 5:32 PM

"Fabulous" is the word, all right - as in "fables".

Most of them have at the very absolute most a teeny-tiny grain of fact buried under a mountain of hyperbole.

Take Lady Catherine White, nee Weston, for example. Nobody in that generation was known to be beheaded by anybody. The Whites found England getting too cold for them, and either skedaddled or were told point-blank to get out and don't come back. The Parliamentary pass permitting them and assorted named children to go to France is on record. (From France they soon moved on to Rome, where they settled in and Lady Catherine died - probably in childbirth of her 8th child). Her epitaph (in Latin) is also on record, as is an elegy that almost certainly pertains to her.

One of Sir Richard's younger brothers was the Catholic theologian who wrote under the name of Thomas "Blacklow", among other aliases. He stayed safely out of reach on the Continent.

1591 is a meaningless date, as it is MUCH too early to have anything to do with Charles I or the English Civil Wars OR the American colonies.

Elizabeth Stockett/Yates may be descended from Sir Richard White, but NOT by Lady Catherine - he had a first wife, named Anne Gray, whose father was a very sharp lawyer and whose antecedents were minor gentry (at most) and middle-class. I haven't been able to find any "hard" evidence that they had a daughter named Frances (there was definitely one named Mary, perhaps a son who died young, and *maybe* another daughter, name not specified). If they did, though, she would have been old enough to go (or be sent) to Virginia, meet up with Dr. Richard Wells, and so forth.

Sir Richard and Lady Catherine *did* have a daughter Frances, but she must have been still a minor and bugged out to France and Rome with the rest of the family (she is named in the Parliamentary pass). Some time after the Restoration she came back to England and became the third wife of her cousin John Petre, inheriting a life interest in his estates, where she settled down and lived a long and quiet life.

Levi Plummer is in the R1b1a2 line of latch-ons, so his connection is suspect.

Regarding "The Ark" - beware. There is a lot of fraudulent genealogy connected with the "Ark and Dove" sailing ("Dove" appears to have been a supply ship and carried few if any passengers). The reconstructed passenger list has NO Plummers on it.
http://www.thearkandthedove.com/passengers.html

The Stocketts can be traced back only as far as a gentleman who can best be described as "Queen Elizabeth I's chief civil engineer" - solidly middle class all the way.

Any Plummers who didn't belong to Y-DNA haplotype G weren't ancestors of Thomas Plummer Sr. of Anne Arundel, period. (One might try checking France as well as England for ancestors - G is a tad bit more common on the Continent, though it's still pretty rare.)

12/30/2013 at 5:35 PM

I talked to my brothers on Saturday. Neither of them are interested in doing the DNA test, at least not now. Guess I will just have to wonder which Plummer I'm related to.

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