The Needle in the Haystack: finding matching DNA for John Rice of Dedham, Ma 1630 son of Margaret Rice ca 1617-18

Started by Dale C. Rice on today


Showing all 3 posts
Today at 9:18 AM

My effort to uncover the likely father of John Rice 1630 my 6th ggrandfather (HAPLOGROUP I-1 M253) settled upon the person John Perratt 1565, Named by my father & raised in the household of Sir John Perrott 1528 and Syble Johns/Jones (AS NOTED BY OXFORD UNIVERSITY ADMISSION TO GREY'S INN 1680). His Brothers, William Perrott and Sir James Perrott had names attatched to the BIOLOGICAL father Sir John Perrott (alleged son of Henry Tudor). They and the WHITE family are concentraited around the PERRATT River in England and seem to be heavily intermarried. R1b1 being the dominant Perrott group, and I-1 being represented in the ANCIENT White family with ties to the Rhys ap Twdwdr line. (my closest DNA match at 37 markers is Allan White with 2 steps variation.)

THE RESEARCH, shows that the most likely DNA for any child of Henry Tudor and Sir John Perrott is R1b1. Eliminating them from the biological father hunt. Since we know that I1 haplogroup, My grandfather's and mine, is a more ancient Clade (evolved prior to R1b1) then we are also looking for the SCANDANAVIAN line which most likely settled in Northern FRANCE, where the Family Tree DNA reports that my line is likely to have originated & then spread to the Channel coastline of England.

I find that Rollo, was active in Northern France about 800AD to 900AD and his descendent's line makes it's way to the Cochranes and Phillips lines. This needs to be fully investigated and established before I can make the assertion that the Father of John Perratt II 1565 is of a Rollo descent. At the moment it seems more likely than not, but I have not proved it. That's the most information I can provide at this time.

I have only one Phillips match at 37 markers but have 6 or more Cochranes at 37 and many more at 25 markers on the Y chromosome. The link below, expands that match considerably in my view. Justin may disagree, but there is remarkable uniformity among the Phillips DNA I-1 M253 matches. So the Father of John Perratt II is most likely to have a COCHRANE (cousin by Marriage to Tudor) and PHILLIPS (Daughter line of Sir John Perrott 1528). We already know that Picton Castle Phillips is R1b1 meaning that the Testimony of my father of a 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister co-mingle is where the I-1 blood group entered the Phillips Line. (IT would be useful to know if they were exclusivly R1b prior to 1600 and then the I-1 blood group Phillips line takes hold after that time period.

The Sir Robert Dudley line likely connects to both families above as it traces through Sutton-Dudley to Northern France. Justin Thinks it should be eliminated from consideration but re-reading the text of the DNA analysis shows they do not have anyone connected to the FRANCIS Dudley line who has tested yet and the ones that have tested are not yet positively linked to Sutton Dudley and Sir Robert. and are therefore are UNGROUPED sinGletons, part of a diffuse but possibly related group of persons Named Dudley. Until we establish that Robert Dudley's DNA is positively known and it's values on Y chromosome, he has to stay in the mix for now. (If I have missed a vital part of what you based your opinion on Justin you will have to re say it, because I don't read the site as saying what you said. Oliver Dudley New Bern NC is 5 or 6 steps out, so perhaps there is a linkage to the Phillips line here.

Today at 9:19 AM


Today at 9:32 AM

PS: THE History of Parliment shows that Queen Elizabeth I Tudor daughter and Boylyne Mt.DNA descendent was laying in for 5 days on November 22, 1565 9 months after her prolonged visit with Sir Robert Dudley in February 1564. The question asked by an ambasador to the Court was answered by Lord Burleigh as: " suffering from a Seasonal affliction". We will not know if the Queen was resting after giving birth or was ill with a cold for some time. This little investigation makes no claim to solve that question.

The mt. DNA side of the Rice family shows J2a1a with an origination on the central Iberian Pennesula. The Tudor DNA could only be represented thusly if the Mt. DNA came from Mary Tudor, not Elizabeth Tudor. So the testimony of 1978 flies in the face of what is known as true in World History. Whatever the outcome, this surely demands better investigation than I am able to summon to the cause. Respectfully DCR

Showing all 3 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion