Crispus Richards - Not the Children of Crispus Richards and Sarah Collins

Started by Private User on Sunday, July 20, 2014


Profiles Mentioned:

Showing 1-30 of 39 posts
Private User
7/20/2014 at 2:06 PM

This family group is pretty-thoroughly documented, so I feel safe in cutting loose the following profiles:

Richard Richards
Joseph Eliot
William Richards
Benjamin Elliot
Mercy Alton

Private User
7/20/2014 at 3:22 PM

Great job - thank you for cleaning it up. If you need any help, let me know

Private User
7/21/2014 at 12:11 AM

Thanks, Lori! I could use help with William (link above). He's an MP, so I couldn't remove the relationship to Crispus and Sarah. I am very certain, however, that he truly is not their son. Sources in the overview for Crispus. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns - and thanks again.

7/22/2014 at 4:49 PM

Private User

I totally agree I have removed this William Richardsand merged him William Richards

Kevin Lawrence Hanit

Private User
7/22/2014 at 6:25 PM

Thank you, Angus!

7/23/2014 at 12:23 PM

According to "The Utah genealogical and historical magazine (1910) Vol. I." &

Crispus Richards and Sarah Collins had a son named Richard Richards .

And from &

Sarah Collins was married 1st to a Joseph Eliot/Elliot and had the dau. Mercy Alton who was born about 1700.

7/23/2014 at 12:44 PM

Private User
Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy, Vol. Curator

Should we be adding back Richard Richards

Also if you look at Revisions on Sarah Richards

There were
Sarah Richards
Benjamin Elliot
Mercy Alton (Eliot)
Mercy Alton

This is leading me to believe that they were siblings, children of Sarah

Where did the Daddy go??

7/23/2014 at 12:48 PM

Accidently added Sarah Richards

should be Joseph Eliot

Private User
7/23/2014 at 2:08 PM

All of the children I've listed in his profile were named in his will. All of them have been documented in vital records for Lynn. The 1910 article proposes a son, Crispus Jr, which certainly makes sense, -but it gives a birthdate for him of 1711 - which is the birthdate of a documented daughter, Hannah. Could they have been twins? If there's a conflict between Lynn's vital records + his will and the 1910 article, I'm going to vote for Lynn + the will... I'm just not sure how to reconcile the differences.

Private User
7/23/2014 at 2:10 PM

Angus, I removed those children. There was no Mr. Eliot when I started working with this family group.

If Richard Richards truly was a son of Crispus, he must have predeceased his father.

7/23/2014 at 3:32 PM

Private User
Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy, Vol. Curator
Private User

At times like this I scream for help, let us get another set of eyes on it, in the mean time why don't we leave everything as is and keep looking for other sources..

Private User
7/23/2014 at 4:38 PM

Angus - I am out of town until the end of the week. Will take a look then

Private User
7/23/2014 at 4:40 PM

Agreed! <sigh of relief> I guess that icky feeling in my stomach is trying to tell me not to try to decide without more info! ;-)

7/23/2014 at 7:23 PM

Private User
Oh boy this is getting complicated I started working up the Tree and found this (Please DO Not Merge);fsession...

I noticed Christopher Strout, Sr. was married to two Sarah Collins one maiden name Pike the maiden name Silsbee..

If you look here you will see;GRid=40410370

He married to Sarah Pike and she became Sarah Strout (Pike) They had many children surname Strout

Sarah Strout (Pike) then married Joseph Collins, of Eastham becoming Sarah Strout Collins (Pike);GRid=41723806

Notice this Joseph Collins is also married twice to Sarah and Ruth Collins

Now if we look at Sarah Collins maiden name Silsbee she was also married to Christopher Strout, Sr.?through=6000000006444378997 and a different Joseph Collins, of Lynn

Here is difference

Another wrench in the works if you look at Sarah Collins#/tab/revision Overview you will see she started as Sarah Hires got merged into Sarah Silsbee..

And again not using My Heritage as a source but a guide somewhere I saw a Sarah Hires mentioned

I am sure that Christopher Stout was never married to Sarah Collins (Silsbee)

7/23/2014 at 8:48 PM

I would of thought that there would of been a husband Joseph Eliot connected to Sarah Collins, since there were children with the last name Eliot, although from the reference there was just the one, Mercy Eliot.

Could be, possibly the Joseph Eliot was merged into Crispus Richards and the revisions just is not showing it. I will see if I can find any kind of reference for Benja Eliot & Joseph Eliot.

I see the placement for William Richards is already taken care of.

7/23/2014 at 9:19 PM

I think the original was Sarah Silsbee at least that is the first in the History / Revisions on 10/16/2009, but there has been other references found which state her name was Hires. A Sarah Hires was probably merged into Sarah Silsbee, I see only the parents Henry Sillsbee, Jr. and Dorothy Sillsbee and no parents for a Sarah Hires seem to have been disconnected that I can tell.

The husband Joseph Collins husband of Sarah Silsbee has a brother named Joseph who is married to Mariah Smith. The two brothers should possibly be merged, there is reference that Joseph m1. Sarah and 2dly Mariah Smtih.

Sarah Silsbee/Hires was probably not married to Christopher Strout, as his wife Sarah Pike was married 2dly to a Joseph Collins which would of been after Christophers death in 1714, since Sarah Silsbee/Hires was deceased 25 February 1681/82 that would be impossible.

Private User
7/23/2014 at 10:40 PM

Agreed, we seem to have three different Sarahs - Hires, Silsbee, and Pike, who've been merged at various times and places until we're left with a big muddle.

Joseph Eliot was either never added to the tree or disappeared into a merge a long time ago.

How do you all want to proceed? Should we gather sources before we start working? Do you want to divy it up? Tell me what to do, as I want to help but don't want to add to the confusion!

And you have no idea how grateful I am that you both are willing to help with this. I'm willing to work, but am not terribly confident about doing projects like this on my own!

Private User
7/23/2014 at 11:41 PM

It's a different Sarah Collins (of Boston) who married Joseph Eliot (of Boston).

I'll rebuild that family.

Document 1st, work from children up, merge last.

Private User
7/24/2014 at 9:39 AM

Well correction to myself - I do like this presentation

I'm a bit concerned about locations (Boston vs Lynn) but will see if it's all supported by VR.

If appears that Sarah (Collins) Eliot Richards married 1) Joseph Eliot, 3 (surviving) children 2) Crispus Richards

And you all got the Crispus under control.

This Eliot family is obscure but does not seem related (so far) to the Rev John Eliot "apostle to the Indians" family.

Please take a look & decide if Sarah Eliot is ready to join her other self Sarah Richards

Private User
7/24/2014 at 12:28 PM

Yes, I think those Sarahs are ready to be merged.

We've been looking at the An American Family History website for days. I have a big problem with it, in that it cites children that were not in the will without documenting them from other sources.

Okay, why don't we take each of the proposed children on a case-by-case basis? I'll start that immediately, and see if each of them can be proven.

Private User
7/24/2014 at 12:43 PM

I'll work the Eliot side, they're almost done. But it's an obscure line.

Private User
7/24/2014 at 1:06 PM

His will was written in 1756 and proven in 1763. It mentions:

* Son Joseph Richards (1703 - 1748)

**Joseph's children William Richards, Joseph Richard, Mary Richards, Ebenezer Richards, Hannah Richards, Esther Richards, John Richards & Martha Richards

* daughter Esther Estess (1705 - )

* son John Richards (1707 - 1758)

* daughter Sarah Ingulls (1709 - )

* daughter Hannah Richards Stocker (1711 - )

* daughter Thankfull Stocker

* daughter Mary Richards (1713 - 1758)

* daughter Deborah Richards (1715 - )

The only problem we have with any of these is that for some reason Thankful is not attached to him in Geni.

These are proposed children of Crispus Richards, not mentioned in the will. Therefore, they almost certainly must have predeceased him without issue:

* Crispus Richards (1711 - 1729): No issue and predeceased his father, so that part is okay. I am concerned that his birthdate conflicts with that of Hannah, a proven child of Crispus Richards. Were they twins? Or does one of them have the wrong DOB?

* Richard Richards (1719 - ) - his Geni profile does not have a date of birth and neither does the American Story site, which doesn't document much of anything and therefore doesn't really qualify as a very reliable "source". Trying now to download the source mentioned by Carole, The Utah Genealogical and Historical Magazine, 1910, Vol. 1...

Private User
7/24/2014 at 1:15 PM lists the following children of Crispus Richards:

Joseph, b. _______, md. Mary Bowden, and died June 4, 1748.
John, b. _______, died before June 3, 1754.
Richard, b. _______, lived at Lynn.

John's entry is clearly incorrect, as we know he survived his father and thus did not die prior to 1756.

Richard's entry tells us nothing except that this researcher thought there was a son named Richard.

Private User
7/24/2014 at 1:30 PM

In the interests of pursuing all possibilities, check out the uncle and nephews. Possible familial matches for these children attributed to Crispus (B 1681):

# Richard Richards of Lynn, a cobbler - uncle to "our" Crispus
# John Richards (born about 1652) - father to "our" Crispus
## Crispus (b 1681) - OUR CRISPUS
## John (born 1677) - brother to "our" Crispus
### Richard, who married Abigail Breed - nephew
## William married Tabitha Williams - brother to "our" Crispus
### Crispus (b 1 March 1762) - nephew
## Joseph (born after 1740) - brother to "our" Crispus
### Richard (b 27 January 1796) - nephew

Private User
7/24/2014 at 4:11 PM

Sorry - still not convinced that

Sarah Eliot is the same as Sarah Richards

Vital records of Lynn has the marriage as Sarah COLLINS to Crispas Richards:

If she was the widow of Joseph Eliot, she would have been married secondly under his name, not her parents.

7/24/2014 at 5:13 PM

Can I disconnect Christopher Strout, Sr. from Sarah Collins

7/26/2014 at 4:12 PM

I have posted what little I could find on Benjamin Elliot
Benjamin Eliot listed as born 23 May 1700, a son of a Joseph Eliot and a Sarah, but which one is not definite.
Nothing found for the Joseph Eliot born July 10, 1698.

Private User
7/26/2014 at 4:37 PM

I found Benjamin here

I'm satisfied this family group is OK for now. The only outstanding question is if this Sarah Collins remarried to Crispus Richards. Torrey's New England marriages indicates no such thing. Savage indicates no such thing. The surviving son married in Boston. The only thing I see linking the 2 families is the coincidence of the daughter being born in Marblehead, which is close to Lynn. This is not good enough for me to suggest it's the same Sarah Collins.

Private User
7/26/2014 at 5:42 PM

Erica, by "I'm satisfied this family group is OK for now" does that mean you think that Crispus Richards (1711 - 1729) and Richard Richards (1719 - ) belong as sons of Crispus (b1681)?

If so, how are you resolving the DOB conflict between Crispu (b1711) and his proven, documented sister born the same year?

Do we have any other evidence other than the An American History site?

7/26/2014 at 5:45 PM

Yes I posted that on Benjamin's profile, not sure why I did not on the others, not even the link. :-(

Showing 1-30 of 39 posts

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