Christoffel Snyman - Who is the Snyman stamvader?

Thank you for your input @Evan Frank Snyman. Your enthusiasm on your forefather's (and mine's) history can all be cleared up with DNA. He is too far away as great grandfather for me to really spend all that money, but the consensus on this line of our ancestors is that a DNA on Snijders and Snyman should be done sooner rather than later to clear up this conundrum

As asked in the other discussion - is there any development in the yDNA project and the Snymans?

I am very new to genealogical discipline. I am therefore asking the following questions as a novice. Please bare with me.

If the issue is resolved through whatever process, and it is established that the person is not the true "stamvader", will that mean that all of his descendants will have to change their surnames, grave stones will have to be re-written, Dept. of the Interior will have to change all their records, all passports will have to be corrected, and genealogical orders will have to be renumbered?

Just a hypothetical question.

No, a person lower down the line would gain the honorific, or at least that is how I see it. Different websites have different people favoured as the 'Stamvader" - even using the same SV/PROG notation, so it seems like somewhat of a "Gentleman's agreement" on who is stamvader in any one line.

@ Evan

The receipt for Anthonie van Bengale's estate confirms that Christoffel Snijman was Anthonie's son and sole heir. This document is used by expert genealogists as evidence that Christoffel Snijman was either the biological or stepson of Anthonie.

We have tested one Snyman male thusfar and found that his paternal y-DNA haplogroup is from northern Europe (I1-Z60). One swallow a Spring does not make but if we assume this to be the trend then the inference is that Anthonie van Bengale is not the biological father.

The more Snyman men have their y-DNA haplogroups tested the more confident we can make this inference. Then concerning your questions. It has been taken for granted and written up as fact that Snijman/Snyman is a South African surname, with its origins in the corruption of the name Schneider/Snyders. This it would appear is not the case. The Snyman surname originated in Europe long before the colonization of Southern Africa.

The dilemma in confirming whether Snyman and Schneider/Snyders are related. y-DNA testing these surnames is the only way of answering the question of whether the experts have it right or whether there is a different story to be had. http://www.geni.com/documents

Evan Frank Snyman says =we have a soldier who arrived at the Cape as a Snijder from Germany=

Private User says =It has been taken for granted and written up as fact that Snijman/Snyman is a South African surname, with its origins in the corruption of the name Schneider/Snyders. This it would appear is not the case. The Snyman surname originated in Europe long before the colonization of Southern Africa.=

It would be good to research and identify the sources behind these statements, and then decide what the SV/PROG Hans Christoffel Snijman, SV/PROG documented surname was (if it didn't change during his lifetime)
as the Geni World Tree has a policy of showing the surname spelled as it was in the documentation of the time. (Display Name Field is sometimes used to show the surname the person is historically known us - if different-, but usually only in the case of Medieval profiles - where the documented surname might not be recognisable to Geni users)

Francois Cornelius Swart, i3j5 =will that mean that all of his descendants will have to change their surnames, grave stones will have to be re-written, Dept. of the Interior will have to change all their records, all passports will have to be corrected, and genealogical orders will have to be renumbered?=

A legal Surname is not connected to biology. (Ask most married women in SA, Britain & America today; all adopted children etc). It is the Surname that the person used on documentation. So when we prove a different father than the one whose surname the child and his heirs used, this does not affect the Surname at all.
(eg The recent DNA revelations that half of all the Bothas in SA today are actually descendants of Ferdinandus Appel - has absolutely NO effect on their Legal Surname. They were legally called Botha - end of story; Unless they legally change their surname to Appel, they remain legally Surnamed Botha.)

The Geni World Tree shows the correct biological father (irrespective of surname) by positioning his actual biological sons under him on the Tree. (So Anthonie van Bengale is not shown as Christoffel Snijman's father on the Tree.)
(NB This does not apply to modern adoptions – where we leave it up the user – were s/he to have been adopted – to decide which parents they want to show on the tree.)

The knock-on effect of having to change hundreds (thousands?) of DVNumbers, everytime DNA shows us a different path than the patrilineal DVN has assumed - is part of the reason that many of the SA Curators would prefer that they not be used in the Suffix Field - because nobody is volunteering to keep them all correct, and GISA doesn't have the finances to keep up with Geni. But the wonderful Geni CEO, Mike Stangel, is working on a solution for us - so that is another Discussion altogether.

Evan Frank Snyman Verskoon die Afrikaans en ek hoop jy verstaan. Toemaar ek sal probeer in Engels.
1. Me myself or is is it "I myself- do not believe in this DNA stuff.- POINT. Sorry but that is a personal feeling.
2. Snyman is my very, very close family on different sides, so he is my SNYMAN SV. We all have a Anna or Sanna v d Kaap. Somewhere.
3. I totally agree with what you say and as far as I am concerned you are factual and we are no experts on medical or forensic or police matters.
4. For me a thing is black or white - no grey area. So until the experts on all Genealogical fields say he is what he is supposed to be, he stays my Snyman SV. As does Botha and definately not Appel.
Nou ja. over gesegd synde. - Die tante glo nie aan klinies op die lewende persoon getoetsde en nie die eeue lange dooies nie, se sg. bloedlyn.
DVP numbers is a must. We are three people working again on trying to get the father as his sons father and not his mothers wife, and one generation totally left out in the "c" line due to an incorrect merge- AGAIN.
But I trust as Sharon said, Mike Stangel will sort this out.
Jitte mense nou hoop ek nie ek het weer myself verkeerd uitgedruk in die Engels nie. Seker klomp spelfoute.
Liefde uit 'n sonnige Randfontein.
Laat ek merges gaan unmerge en ouers en kinders by die regte plekke probeer kry.
MWAH.

Hi Sharon, it is my research and would consider writing more on the sources etc. once I have finished my research. I will consider writing something about the research if the DNA evidence confirms that the Snymans from SA and Europe share the same yDNA. If the yDNA suggests otherwise the sources will still prove that the surname Snyman existed in northern Europe centuries before the establishment of the Cape colony.

Okay, Alex. That sounds really interesting. Do you know how to use the HistoryLink App to find other Y DNA Snyman descendants who are Geni Users? You might be able to convince them to be tested as well. The University of Pretoria might be interested in helping too.

Thanks Sharon. I would appreciate any help in getting Snyman men involved. Who can I speak to at the University of Pretoria that might be interested in helping? Please personal message me the information.

Alex, take a look at the Appel/Botha project for the paper they did, and message the university for contact details. .. Hang on I'll find it for you.

I've invited you to the project, 'Bothas who are DNA descendants of Ferdinandus Appel':
http://www.geni.com/projects/Bothas-who-are-DNA-descendants-of-Ferd...

The paper 'Appel Botha Cornelitz : the abc of a three hundred year old divorce case.' is here: http://repository.up.ac.za/bitstream/handle/2263/32007/Greeff_Appel...

& these are the contact details:
Jaco M. Greeff* & J. Christoff Erasmus
Department of Genetics, University of Pretoria, Pretoria 0002, South Africa.
*Corresponding author:
Jaco .M. Greeff
Email: jaco.greeff@up.ac.za
Tel: +27 83 257 8761
Department of Genetics, University of Pretoria, Pretoria 0002, South Africa
J. Christoff Erasmus
Email: christoff.erasmus@gmail.com
Department of Genetics, University of Pretoria, Pretoria 0002, South Africa

If you know your Y-DNA Progenitor, Jeff Gentes' wonderful History Link App: http://historylink.herokuapp.com/ provides a way to check if there are others on the Geni tree who share him with you:
First answer yes when it asks to access your Geni info, it's safe:

Then Click on:
+ 'Ancestor Graph' ( top right)
+ Little boxed face in the middle, next to your name, & change the person to your Y-DNA PROG's profile link
+ Change the box options below to '15 Generations to Display'; 'Descendants' & 'Y-DNA'
+ 'Build Graph' (green box, top right)
+ Choose the 'Status' circle option - as this will show you which of his descendants are also Geni users (claimed profiles)

Thanks Sharon. I already have the Botha and Greeff DNA articles. Thanks for the app info. I am sure this will come in handy.

Does Christoffel's yDNA haplogroup (I am unfamiliar here) not answer the question as to any European connection to the Snymans already? Shouldn't he have the same yDNA as Hans Christoffel Snijman/Snijder/Scheider? And doesn't it settle the other potential argument as to Anthonij van Bengale only being his step-father?

Evan Frank Snyman, as we can't exhume Hans Snyman and test his DNA - we cannot say for certain that he matches with the present day Snyman who was tested. We can only infer from the family tree line that he is likely to be the biological SV - but that presumes that all the mothers down the line were honest about the paternity of their sons.
If we get the same Y DNA haplogroup results from numbers of his direct descendants - who would all be cousins- then we can assume that their common ancestor was the same man.

From what I can see the History Link App throwing out, there are lots of Snyman cousin descendants on this line who are also Geni users:

Cecil Christian Snyman
Mattheus Johannes Jacobus Snyman
Dawid Benjamin Snyman
Jacques Snyman
Jonathan Cecil Snyman
Johannes Snyman
Private User
Kornelius Snyman
Sarel Daniël Snyman

It might be useful to approach them, Private User, & Evan and find out if they want to help you research together:

Here is the Snyman project as well: http://www.geni.com/projects/Snyman/7706

Cool, thank you. I will do what I can when I can. As an adoptee, I have four parents, and so my focus is often diluted.

From the research I have done, it does seem that Snyman is an Afrikaans name, which was derived from Schneider....As a surname I have certainly not found it outside of the South African community..If the progenitor came from Germany as well, this would make sense....Certainly not the first name to be changed once it reached the South African shores!

Just to whet the appetite ... there will be a new article on FFY on this family shortly. Just having computer problems at moment which will hopefully be sorted in the next week. Article includes important transcripts. And there will be a second, shorter, article on related information.

Private User I am with you on the DNA - think there is a lot we think we know that we actually don't know ... :-)

Looking forward to it Delia Robertson. Make sure you post an alert here, so we know when to try and find it.

@ Hi all
I am working on my side of the Snyman Family and truly are struggling. My mother is a Snyman and Her father is John Jacobus Snyman son of Philippus Marthinus Snyman. There is a Pdf docoment that i got from someone for all the Snyman's of South Aftica, however i found a glitch. My Great grandfathher Philippus Marthinus father is also a philippus Marthinus and then his father a Jacobus Gerhardus. that is according to the pdf format. also according to the document Jacobus Gerhardus first son born 1872 named Philippus Marthinus. I got the documents to show it is correct, but then the first grandson of Jacobus Gerhardus shows born 1873, but i cant find his baptism, but also it can't be correct with other words he was one year old when his son was born.

So far i checked from the "stamvader" up until Jacobus Gerhardus and everything matched. i have copied from the document as below

2266
f7 Jacobus Gerhardus SNYMAN (2211/x),
*18.02.1841,
˜Somerset-Oos 25.04.1841 »» Kinders
(5): 2267, 2276, 2288, 2289, 2290 x ±__.__.1871,
Aletta Petronella PIEK
»aDoopgetuies by Philippus
Marthinus se doop: Christoffel Johannes Piek &
Susanna Wilhelmina Mulder; Maria B Snyman.

2267
g1 Philippus Marthinus SNYMAN (2266/x),
*Pearston 27.04.1872,
˜Hanover 12.01.1873
»Doopinskrywing »» Kinders (8): 2268, 2269, 2270,
2271, 2272, 2273, 2274, 2275 x Maria Magdalena
Cecilia BLOM,
*±__.__.1859

2268
h1 Philippus Marthinus SNYMAN (2267/x),
*23.01.1873,
˜N G Kerk, Middelburg, K P
18.06.1873