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King David to Raban Gamliel to Rashi etc.

Started by Shmuel-Aharon Kam (Kahn) / (שמואל אהרן קם (קאן on Saturday, January 30, 2010

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Showing 1-30 of 42 posts
1/30/2010 at 3:31 PM

Hello all,
I'm creating this discussion in order to try and coordinate the many people working on this line, as we each have slightly different versions.

Here is a most brief list of some on the main profiles in this line:
King David / דוד המלך . and his son Shephatiah .
Hillel Hazaken הלל הזקן, נשיא הסנהדרין - 'The Elder' grandfather of Gamaliel I
Rabban Gamliel II of Yavne רבן גמליאל ד-יבנה, נשיא הסנהדרין ביבנה

Private Usercan you please add the list of Rashi profiles that you have, with links also to their managers.

I am NOT personally familiar with this line, although Malka Mysels seems to have a solid source for her version. My interest in this line ends with the immediate family of King David / דוד המלך . as I work almost solely on the bible tree.

Let's get this mess in order folks!
All comments welcome.

1/30/2010 at 4:15 PM

Thank you for setting up this forum to address this vital issue. We really need everyone's help as this line has somehow been lost.

Shmuel, to participate is the discussion do you just have to post a response, and then does your profile link automatically to the sidebar?

Ofir Friedman has astutely saved records of the previous links. Perhaps it is best if one person takes over co-ordinating all the information that comes in and then posts the options for us all to decide on how best to proceed to repair the line and hopefully with the added help of experts in the area.

The line that I found with a source to substantiate it was the one that Leah Hoffman originally had with Hillel's father as Hezekiah Hazaken ben Uzziah and so on for 37 generations to Daniel ben Shephatiah ben David HaMelech, and I have already sent Ofir a screen shot of that.

1/30/2010 at 4:19 PM

@ Shmuel, how do we add links under "Profiles Mentioned"?

Private User
1/30/2010 at 9:33 PM

I'm 99.99% certain that
http://www.geni.com/people/King-David-%D7%93%D7%95%D7%93-%D7%94%D7%...
was the son of
Jesse / ישי .
two days ago, and that the disconnect somehow happened while I was merging B Yungreis's branch onto the main tree.
So I imagine that the first step is to glue them back together.

1/30/2010 at 9:48 PM

Does this path from King David to Rashi seem right?

King David / דוד המלך .
King David / דוד המלך .

Shephatiah / Chefatia / שפטיה .
Shephatiah .

Daniel Daniel ben Shefatiah

Nathan .
Maacha .
Jedija .
Manasseh .
Ephraim .
Gilhon .
Joash .
Joshua .
Nathan .
Jehorum .
Ezram .
Tola / Tolam .
Simeon .
Ammon .
Moche .
Melchi / Melchiah
Aminadab .
Elnathan Governor of Judea
Judah .
Uriah .
David .
Solomon .
Ahithophel .
Abimelech .
Nathan .
Gideon .
Abraham .
Baasha .
Ephraim .
Joash .
Jehoshaphat .
Eliezer .
David .
Solomon Hazaken
Uzziah Hazaken
Uzziah Hazaken? Ben-Shlomo

Hezekiah Hazaken ( Descendant of Benjamin ) Hezekiah Hazaken / חזקיה הזקן

(Needs to be reconnected)

Hillel Hazaken / הלל הזקן

Simeon HaNasi

Gamliel Hazaken

Simeon II / שמעון בן גמליאל

Raban Gamliel of Yavneh

Yokhanan Hasandlar

Yehoshua Zimri Tzarfarti

Yokhanan Tzarfarti

Nachman Tzafarti

Yosef b Nakhman Tzarfarti

Yanai Tzafarti

Menioni Tzafarti

Rabbi Jose HA-GAON Tzarfarti

Atdhan (Avraham) Tzarfarti

Aharon?/Shlomo? Tzarfarti

Yitzhoq Tzafarti

Rabbi Shlomo Yitzhaki (רש"י) Rashi Rashi / רש"י

Private User
1/31/2010 at 7:35 AM

No objections from me.
I'm afraid that the disconnects occurred when I tried to merge B Yungreis's tree while unmerging his tree from Marla Schick's tree which I have no rights to.
Sorry.

Private User
1/31/2010 at 7:53 AM

I should add that I know nothing about the genealogy and was irresponsibly trying to merge three trees that led from Rashi to Adam Harishon. I now see that Marla Schick's trees has some differences from Malka Mysels's tree before Rashi's father at
http://www.geni.com/profile/index/6000000003078549436.
I seem to be simply messing up your work, so I will try to step out of this project unless you need me to do something with one of B Yungreis's profiles.

1/31/2010 at 8:48 AM

Eli, the path that I have is the one that Geni's algorithm just created for me. We need to have input like you are providing so kindly by responding so that the line can indeed be authenticated, merged and cleaned up.

Ofir Friedman seems to have kept alot of records, and if he would agree to become the central co-ordinator for the Rashi to KIng David line, then perhaps with everyone's input and help we will be able to figure out the correct path.

Some of the differences I see from the Rashi path above that I had, and the one with Marla Schick's tree.

RASHI
http://www.geni.com/profile/index/6000000003078549436
his father → Yitzchak Tzarfati
his father → shlomo (?)
his father → Eliyakim (?)
his father → Aharon Rofeh (probably same needs merging)
his father → Avraham Rofeh (probably same needs merging)
his father → Yossi Constantina (probably the same profile as above)
his father → Minyomi (needs merging)
his father → Yanai Tzafarti
his father → Yosef b Nakhman Tzarfarti
his father → Nachman Tzafarti
his father → Yokhanan Tzarfarti
his father → Yehoshua Zimri Tzarfarti
his father → Yochanan Hasandlar
his father → Raban Gamliel of Yavneh
his father → Simeon II / שמעון בן גמליאל
his father → Gamliel Hazaken
his father → Simeon HaNasi
his father → Hillel Hazaken / הלל הזקן

Private User
1/31/2010 at 1:15 PM

Malka, Thanks. I'll be happy to try to do my part in helping with cleaning up and merging, as long as someone else is in charge of the genealogy.

Private User
1/31/2010 at 3:03 PM

Should I reattach
King David / דוד המלך .
to
Yishai:
Jesse / ישי .
It's making me nervous that they're sitting there unattached. Someone's going to start adding them again.

1/31/2010 at 3:08 PM

Eli you are correct that that Jesse / ישי . was King David / דוד המלך .'s father, but for some reason Geni refuses to let me reattach them. :-(

Malka,
1) once you comment, then yes your name will appear under Participants, and yo will automatically see this discussion in your list.

2) The easiest way to "tag" people to get them in the Profiles Mentioned list, is to copy-paste their profile-ID between double-square brackets. Like this: [[profile-ID]].
[If someone is a close relative you can use the @ trick described to the right of the reply box. but it doesn't always find people, so I skip it altogether.]

1/31/2010 at 3:08 PM

Eli feel free to try.

Private User
1/31/2010 at 3:23 PM

Ok, I attached David Hamelech to Jesse/Yishai with unknown mother/wife. (I'm sure that he had a mother last week.)

Private User
1/31/2010 at 3:27 PM

Geni simply hung when I tried to attach David as Jesse'sJesse / ישי . son, but when I then said that Jesse was "This person" (David's father), it worked.

Private User
1/31/2010 at 4:15 PM
Private User
1/31/2010 at 5:44 PM

Ok, a status report on what I understand so far about what remains unresolved from my attempted merge:
1. There is now a second Boaz / בעז . half/partial unresolved brother of the official Boaz / בעז .. This second Boaz is merely part of an orphaned chain managed by Private User leading from Nahshon ben Aminadav / נחשון בן עמינדב down to Yoshea Hasandler.
2. There is now a second Rashi / רש"י managed by Private User listed as the great-grandson of the main Rashi / רש"י's uncle Elyakim Tzarfati / אליקים צרפתי, אבי סב רש"י. This second Rashi apparently has thousands of descendants many of which are also connected to the main Rashi, either separately or through unresolved tree merges.
3. The main Rashi / רש"י now has double daughters
of Miriam and Yocheved (Yochoved) besides the daughters of the second Rashi.

Private User
1/31/2010 at 6:12 PM

I am repeating here what Malka Mysels pointed out earlier about Marla Schick's tree, that:
between Rashi's father Yitzchak Tzarfati and his ancestor Avraham son of Yossi/JOSE
some people have three generations
Shlomo son of Elyakim son of Aharon (Harofeh)
while the main Geni tree now simply has one generation called Aharon?/Shlomo? Aharon Hagadol Tzarfati [RASHI gt.gt.gd.father] / אהרון שלמה צרפתי, סבי סב רש"י
B Yungreis's tree had the three generations, but they got lost during my merge.

1/31/2010 at 6:19 PM

Thank you Eli, your help and reports are greatly appreciated.

Regarding the Rashi profile perhaps you should consult with Ofir before proceeding with any merges because he has a large list of Rashi profiles and some source material that he is sorting out in order to formulate a central plan - so just check with him first.

In addition to [[Rashi / רש"י]] and [[http://www.geni.com/profile/index/6000000003078549436#/tab/overview]] there is a third Rashi with many descendants [[]], but Ofir has found many more.

Private User
1/31/2010 at 6:36 PM

Thank you, Malka. I am just attempting to sort out and report on the results of my attempt to merge B Yungreis's tree and Marla Schick's tree onto the main tree. I am certainly happy to hear that someone (Ofir) is working on a real plan, and I would be happy to leave further decisions to him.

Private User
1/31/2010 at 6:50 PM

Malka, I really appreciate your non-confrontational communication.
P.S. to use the [[]] trick, I think that you just put the long number, e.g. 6000000002037304143, between the brackets, without all the rest of the link.

Private User
1/31/2010 at 6:55 PM

Dear Eli,

I wish I can say something intelligent about the Rashi issues. Unfortunately I'm not qualified to comment. I will be delighted to see any true scholar's opinion on this matter.

1/31/2010 at 8:42 PM

Eli, your enthusiasm and interest in offering to help clean up the Rashi to King David line is most welcome. We are urgently looking for people to help us with this project. This is a pivotal area of the Big Tree and it is in dire need of attention and central coordination such as Shmuel so selflessly provides for the Bible tree.

Shmuel and Eli thanks for printing a link guide, let me try to see if i can
get the links to work right this time.
1. [6000000006709501378]
2. [6000000002037304143]
3. [6000000003078549436]

1/31/2010 at 8:45 PM

Should there be double brackets?
What am I still doing wrong. It is so cool when you guys
are able to get tags to work.

Private User
1/31/2010 at 9:28 PM

Malka, I'm glad to help where I can.
Yep, double brackets.

Private User
1/31/2010 at 9:42 PM

Hatzlacha! May Hashem help you in the merit of Dovid Hamelech and all the Tzaddikim in this tree!

2/1/2010 at 6:15 AM

Just testing profile tags.

Rashi / רש"י

Rashi / רש"י

4/10/2010 at 8:45 AM

Linda, please stop doing this immediately! This is inappropriate.

Private User
4/27/2010 at 10:17 PM

I do not know who you people are, but I find it close to ridiculous to suddenly see Geni telling me that my wife's second cousin's wife's cousin (or something like that) is Rashi haKadosh's 26'th great grandson.
1) Whether it is true or not is totally irrelevant.
2) The chances of anyone alive today KNOWING if it is true are nil.
Maybe stop cluttering Geni with this stuff?
It seems to me as useful as (lehavdil!!!) the way Geni tries to get me related to Madonna or George Washington. Yeah right....
Have a great Pesach Sheni, meheira yibaneh!!!
Shimon

Private User
4/27/2010 at 10:57 PM

Maybe genealogy is not for you Shimon. Most of us are hear to find our roots and our ancestors. I'm sorry if my ancestors offend you.

Private User
4/27/2010 at 11:15 PM

@Shimon, I personally LIKE knowing the trivial stuff. As a matter of fact Madonna IS a distant cousin of mine through the Fortin line of French-Canadians, plus I was one who worked on her tree. I like knowing who my ancestors are and who their descendants are no matter how far removed they are.

If it's irrelevant information to you, I am guessing you might want to set your tree preferences to see Ancestors only, that way you won't be offended by all the rest of the family trees that are connected via siblings of ancestors.

Showing 1-30 of 42 posts

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