Eystein Glumra and Ascrida

Started by Harald Alvestrand on Sunday, August 29, 2010

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8/29/2010 at 2:19 AM

A number of trees have given Øystein two wifes named "Ascrida" and "Jocunda". Very odd names for a Viking noble's wives.

In hunting around for where this story comes from (a much more useful mission, in my mind, than verifying whether this story is "true"), I've come across this reference:

Title The American historical magazine, Volume 3
Authors Publishing Society of New York, Americana Society, Americana Society (New York, N.Y.)
Publisher The Publishing Society of New York, 1908

where Google Books gives me this snippet:

"BOOK OF BRUCE

EYSTEIN, or EUSLIN, named Glumra of Vors, son of the preceeding, fled into the kingdom of Norway about 870 to escape Dansih tyranny. He married, first Jocunda, daughter of Hunt-

End of snippet. The search function claims that the word "Ascrida" occurs on the same page. It's likely that some of the people here may be able to read more, or even point to what the "Book of Bruce" is and where it's available to a Norwegian.

Help?

8/29/2010 at 3:06 AM

... The Internet Archive comes to the rescue: The text is online.

http://www.archive.org/stream/bookofbruceances00week#page/34/mode/2...

But it doesn't tell me where the author of the "Book of Bruce" got his ideas from....

Private User
8/29/2010 at 3:24 AM

Eysteinn "Glumra" Ivarsson's wife has been mentioned as Ása or Ásdis, which are Norse names. I don't know the primary sources for this information (yet). The first entries of these are made by users from Iceland/Færøyar etc. Might be sth there?

8/29/2010 at 11:51 AM

Harald,does this help? from Ancestry.com

Of Trondheim GLUMORASDOTTIR was born in 785. Parents: Earl Of Trondheim\ Glumora Eystein.
Spouse: Jarl Of The Uplanders Of Ivar I OPLAENDINGE Halfdansson. Halfdansson and Of Trondheim GLUMORASDOTTIR were married. Children were: Jarl Of The Uplands Eystein Ivarsson GLUMRA.

Spouse: Countess Of Oppland, Jutl Ascrida RAGNVALDSDOTTIR. Jarl Of The Uplands Eystein Ivarsson GLUMRA and Countess Of Oppland, Jutl Ascrida RAGNVALDSDOTTIR were married about 846 in Of, Maer, Nord Trondelag, Norway

Princess Maer] Jocunda HUNTHIOFSDATTER7 was born about 842 in Norway. Name Suffix: [Princess Maer]
Daughter of Hunthiof, King of Maer
Ancestral File Number:<AFN> 18GX-67C
From Ancestral File (TM), data as of 2 January 1996.
Spouse: Jarl Of The Uplands Eystein Ivarsson GLUMRA. and [Princess Maer] Jocunda HUNTHIOFSDATTER were married about 862 in Of, Maer, Nord Trondelag, Norway.

8/29/2010 at 12:10 PM

Ronald, thanks, but not really - it confirms that the information is entered into the LDS databases, and probably copied a milion times from there - but LDS doesn't give its sources, and I'm hesitant to give it credence as a primary source.

The Book of Bruce looks like a likely source for the LDS information.

8/29/2010 at 12:24 PM

Heres another confusing entry from a book in Denmark.Children born 1830 & 1832 but not married until 1846.In any event it appears in all of the genealogy records Eystein is shown as being born in Norway,not Denmark.And the posting from Bruce says he went to Norway ca.1870 makes no sense as his children were born in Norway.
1.1.1.1. Eystein "Glumra" Ivarsson , son of Ivar & Eysteinsdatter Halfdansson, b. ca. 800, Maer, Nord Trondelag, Norway; m. ca. 846, Maer, Nord Trondelag, Norway to Ascrida (Aseda) Rognvaldsdatter Countess of Oppland , daughter of Rognvald Olafsson , b. ca. 804, Maer, Nord Trondelag, Norway. Eystein "Glumra" & Ascrida/Aseda (Rognvaldsdatter) Ivarsson had:

· Svanhild Eysteindatter , b. ca. 850, Maer, Nord Trondelag , Norway .
· Malahule (Haldrick) (Malahulc) (Tresney) Eysteinsson , b. ca. 845, Maer, Nord Trondelag , Norway .
· Rognvald I "The Wise" Eysteinsson Earl of More and Romsdal, b. ca. 830, Maer, Nord Trondelag, Norway; d. ca. 890-894, Orkney, Orkney Islands, Scotland.
· Sigurd I "the Mighty" Eysteinsson , b. ca. 832, Maer, Nord Trondelag, Norway; d. 874, Orkney, Orkney Islands, Scotland; bur. Ekkialsbakki, Sydero, Dornoch Firth.

Private User
8/29/2010 at 1:30 PM

Speaking of Eystein ... this just arrived in my merge center and doesn't look right. Can someone take a look?

http://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000003193287599?return=merge_...

Private User
8/29/2010 at 1:38 PM

Looks correct to me, - it is just locations like Normandìa that is totally wrong, but I guess Westfoln is Vestfold in Norway which is better.

Private User
8/29/2010 at 1:40 PM

Thanks! I approved and moved it on.

Private User
8/29/2010 at 1:52 PM

Please don't initiate more merges in that area, - I have spent hours already today to remove his father from a lot of wrong connections, and there is a lot of work left there.

8/29/2010 at 2:42 PM

Ronald, can you give the citation for the book you're quoting (title, author, date of publication)? We know positively that a lot of inconsistent information has been published, so it's critical that we keep track of where we heard things from. As far as I can tell, all the years cited are someone's guess; there's very little that I would take as proof of the chronology cited.

Bjørn, Ivar seems not-too-bad to me now (no wrong parents), but Geni's doing the "We've found a problem" thing when I try to pick parents from the 147 copies of "Halfdan Jarl & Unknown" / "Halfdan Jarl & NN".

Private User
8/29/2010 at 2:53 PM

While at it, and since I know you like digging into sources: Eystein Ivarsson «the Noisy» Glumra is listed with a daughter now: Svanhild Eysteinsdotter, the first wife of Harald I Halvdansson «Fairhair» Hårfagre.

In her About Me I had to add: Her father was only known as Øystein jarl (earl Eystein), but since Eystein/Øystein Ivarsson "Glumra" was a close allied with her husband Harald Hårfagre and there could only be one Jarl/Earl in an area and to many had this connection in their trees we keep it.
----
Any comments?

I know that foreign sources list Glumra as her father but without any references - or?

8/29/2010 at 3:36 PM

I'll be back at my copy of Snorre tomorrow - I'll take a look!

(That copy of Snorre has a quite useful name index in the back....)

Private User
8/30/2010 at 5:09 AM

Could you also check if Harald II Eiriksson «Greycloak» Gråfell, King of Norway have any kids?

Several have a daughter Bertrade Haraldsdotter linked to him, but I wonder if this is the correct Harald.

Private User
8/30/2010 at 10:54 AM

You also have this cite:

From Family of Hay, page 73 (1999) -

Earl Rognvald was the son of Estein Glumre, who was the son of *Thebotan, Duke of Sleswick and Stermace A.D. 721, who fled into Norway by reason of the Danish Tyrrany, and married *Jocunda,' daughter of Hunheafter, Kong of North and South Moeri.
Thebotan marries second *Ascrida, daughter of Rognvald, son of Olaus, King of Norway, whose sons where 1, *Rognvald; 2, Sigurt.

--
It's obvious that this is not reffering to the same person marrying the two, but probably the same history otherwise.

8/30/2010 at 10:57 AM

Bjørn & Erica are you aware that genealogists are saying that Rollo,Duc de Normandie
was not the son of Jarl Rognvald of Møre? Read this by Stewart Baldwin.

http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/rollo000.htm

8/30/2010 at 11:21 AM

Harald,,this researcher has many references listed as sources.

http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I23619&amp;t...

8/30/2010 at 12:38 PM

Re Harald Gråfell - all that is said in Snorre about kids is a quote in Olav Tryggveson's saga (paragraph 12): "King Harald is very old now, and he has only one son, and he doesn't love him much, it is a "frillesønn" (concubine's son)". No mention in Snorre about daughters.

8/30/2010 at 12:40 PM

Bjørn in my tree I have Bjørn " the Merchant " Haraldssøn 900-927 Tønsberg
Parents Harald " Fairhair " Halvdanssøn 850-933 and Svanhild Eysteinnsdr. 862-
Svanhild daughter of Eystinn Glumra Ivarssøn & Ascrida Ragnvaldsdtr.

8/30/2010 at 1:07 PM

Re Svanhild Eysteinsdotter: According to Snorre, Ragnvald, the son of Eystein Glumra (not Eystein himself) became the king's man in section 10; in section 21, he's married to Svanhild, daughter of Øystein Jarl. As far as I can see, there's no mention of Eystein Jarl anywhere else in Harald Hårfagre's saga.

The Orkney saga claims that Eystein Glumra is the son of Ivar Opplendingejarl and the father of Ragnvald, who was made an earl by Harald. There's no explicit mention that Eystein Glumra was an earl.

So the description of his parentage being a "reasonable assumption" seems reasonable - it's an assumption, not a clear statement.

Private User
8/30/2010 at 3:13 PM

Stein, there are several persons named Glumra, like this one: Eystein 'Glumra' Hognasson.

Svanhild Eysteinsdotter is mentioned in Heimskringla:
http://lind.no/nor/splitt.asp?lang=&amp;emne=&amp;person=&amp;list=...

He was also married to Svanhild, a daughter of Earl Eystein; and their sons were Olaf Geirstaadalf, Bjorn and Ragnar Rykkil. Lastly, King Harald married Ashild, a daughter of Hring Dagson, up in Ringerike; and their children were, Dag, Hring, Gudrod Skiria, and Ingigerd. It is told that King Harald put away nine wives when he married Ragnhild the Mighty. So says Hornklofe: --

8/31/2010 at 12:21 PM

Bjørn,its amazing how people do not check dates in their postings. If you have a look at at
Eystein Hognassøns posting he died in 759 yet Thyra was born in 785.Eystein Glumra Ivarssø no doubt got his Glumra name from his grandfather Hognassøn.

Private User
8/31/2010 at 12:50 PM

Nah, - the name Glumra just tells you that he was a noisy and load person and that is a nickname you have to earn and cannot inherit.

It reminds me about a profile I merged for a week or two ago, a wife of Svend I Haraldsen «Forkbeard» Tveskæg named Sigrid Tveskæg - meaning Sigrid with the pitchfork-style mustache, made me laugh load. I wish people could stop forcing the husbands "last name" on the wifes when they have absolutely no documentation that she had or used it.

Don't trust the dates anyhow - most of them are estimated and during this major cleanup I don't check and verify the dates on the profiles and I leave the cleanup of About Me at the moment to others

9/1/2010 at 2:11 AM

I've started to put in a short summary in "About me" about what I think the linkages should be given evidence and Geni "common opinion".

When 100 persons have added a certain relationship, and one person has added another, neither with evidence (apart perhaps for LDS conjectures) it's reasonable for us to go with the 100 and ignore the one as "possible error".

But this becomes harder to see after I've done my merge/cleanup, so it's good to make a note of it.

Agreement on the dates - mismatches of up to 100 years between clear dupes are common, and in the merge, it's more or less random which one ends up in the merged profile.

Private User
9/1/2010 at 3:20 AM

The cleanup goes well, but I am currently stuck in the area around Sigurd Snake-in-the-eye, - it looks like someone have merged every Sigurd and Aslaug profile they have found.

9/1/2010 at 12:40 PM

Merge, then prune!
I think the curator coat of arms should be decorated with a pile of zombie heads and some huge pruning shears....

Private User
9/1/2010 at 1:01 PM

Can't - We need to sort out at least two Aslaug Sigurdsdotter (one of with the nickname Kraka for those who knows the history), and then you have the mix of several persons named Sigurd in that line. I wish people could stop using hot-match to merge profiles, especially if they believe that xx-dotter/xx-son is a family name and not a patronymic.

To quote Susanna and Flemming who did the last cleanup (and the are going to take a look again):
-------------
There are TWO Aslaug Sigurdsdotter
One is the daughter of Sigurd Sigmundsson and Alfhild
married to Ragnar Lodbrok Sigurdsson (Sigurd Ring).

Ragnar and Aslaug had many children, among them:
Sigurd Snake Eye who married Helen Bleja and they had a daughter - called.....ASLAUG!!!! Aslaug Sigurdsdotter to make the confusion total

This daughter Aslaug then married Helgi....and so on...

The fact that their are two Aslaug and 100 Sigurd is the reason to the mistakes made here I guess.
------------

Well, - several of us are exhausted now..

They leaked a statistics yesterday: The curators completed 15% of all merges in Geni the last week. And they claim to have five millions users...

We have a presentation of the curators now: http://www.geni.com/discussions/6000000009792416945

9/1/2010 at 2:43 PM

I'm working a couple of generations lower - Ragnvald Heidumhære and his (undocumented) wife and (undocumented) child Asdis (Ascrida), wife of Eystein Glumra (the younger one). There are a couple of profiles that are obviously themselves the result of incorrect merges in the stack - I try to merge them and make them consistent with at least one of the incorrect identities; if we lose one, likely it will be uploaded in a new Geni file tomorrow....

15% of all the merges completed overall? That's ...... a lot. A wonder you still have flesh left on your fingertips!

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