@Thyra Danebod, born 870???

Started by Leif A Johansson on Sunday, September 12, 2010

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9/12/2010 at 1:33 PM

Something must be wrong, she can´t be born 870, 16 years after her fathers dead and about 16 years after her mother

9/12/2010 at 4:41 PM

You're quite right, it doesn't make sense. Thyra is traditionally considered the daughter of Harald Klak, but really, the years don't fit. There are probably one or two generations missing. I would tend to believe this guy: http://www.vikingekonger.dk/Vikingekonger%20HTML/Artikler%20A/Tyra%... who reasons that she must be the daughter of a Harald who's the grandson of Harald Klak.

But right now the bigger problem is to clean up all the duplicates. It is difficult to make controversial decisions when there are hundreds of people with the traditional story in their trees, or one of several other versions, which continually will overwrite them.

Private User
9/13/2010 at 7:49 AM

To put this in perspective, there is nothing certain known about Thyra's ancestry. If one assumes that Thyra's father was named Harald "Klak", then one must also accept that this person is different from the Harald who ruled Denmark for a short while in the first half of the 9th century. The only effective range of dates we can give for the birth of Thyra is related to the birth of her only historically attested son, Harald "bluetooth".

The purported link between Thyra and the Anglo-Saxon kings appears to have been "invented" by Saxo Grammaticus to give credance to Cnut's ("the great") claim to be king of England.

Mike King.

Private User
9/13/2010 at 7:51 AM

To put this in perspective, there is nothing certain known about Thyra's ancestry. If one assumes that Thyra's father was named Harald "Klak", then one must also accept that this person is different from the Harald who ruled Denmark for a short while in the first half of the 9th century. The only effective range of dates we can give for the birth of Thyra is related to the birth of her only historically attested son, Harald "bluetooth".

The purported link between Thyra and the Anglo-Saxon kings appears to have been "invented" by Saxo Grammaticus to give credance to Cnut's ("the great") claim to be king of England.

Mike King.

Private User
9/13/2010 at 7:52 AM

Sorry, don't know how this got posted twice. Mike.

9/13/2010 at 10:01 AM

Yes, it is of course a bit of a challenge to do any kind of meaningful genealogy of all those more or less mythical Scandinavian kings and queens, from 1000 and backwards, as we know very little for sure. Even Gorm and Thyra, who are widely celebrated as the official start of the Danish royal line, all the way to the present, we know very little about. There's a stone with a few inscriptions about them, and a king named Gorm was mentioned once or twice by sources from other countries, but how it all fits together is mostly guesswork. So it doesn't get any better before that. What year they were born and died, and who is the parent of who, and if they really existed, it is mostly guesswork, based on sagas and not much else. The vikings weren't really big on keeping records.

One reason I like http://www.vikingekonger.dk/ a lot, is that it focuses a lot on what we know about the logic of naming of children and of choosing kings, etc. There's a considerable sense to the rules, which allow us to guess many things. For example, one didn't just name somebody Harald because it was a nice name, it has to be the name of one of the grandparents. And the only way a girl got the same first name as her mother is if the mother died in childbirth with her.

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