Yay! Fornjot is #36 on the Top 100!

Started by Harald Alvestrand on Wednesday, September 22, 2010

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9/22/2010 at 11:21 PM

"My" obscure Viking ancestor is in the Top 100 list of Geni! How strange!

Private User
9/22/2010 at 11:29 PM

It's because he's my 20th great uncle's 16th great grandfather. My family is very popular, you know.

9/23/2010 at 3:15 AM

Hey, he's my 19th great uncle's 16th great grandfather!! LOL
(But if my line from Rollo the Viking is still correct (??) then I guess he's my direct ancestor?) Such fun this is!

Private User
9/23/2010 at 3:37 AM

My 39th great grandfather ;-)

It's on the Top 100 list as a result of being a new curator and people are interested in what you are working with ;-)

The top-100 list and ranking is based on number of visits to a profile, and you will also notice what have become a "problem" by being a curator. To many jump in based in newsfeed and merge center issues you generate and try to help you with your work like merging or stacking profiles you currently are stacking and not yet decided if it is correct.;-)

Hope people have an understanding for the frustration it might create with the result that some of us have to lock profiles we are working on ;-)

Private User
9/23/2010 at 4:10 AM

Fornjot King of Kvenland is your 37th great grandfather.
I had no idea. Going to have to look into this one :)

9/23/2010 at 6:39 AM

40th great grandfather here!

9/23/2010 at 7:52 AM

Don't get your hopes up. Lets do the math

He is my 38th Grand father

a normal Generation is 20 years
38 *20= 760 yrs

2010 - 760= 1250 AD

Lets give a Generation 40 years
38*20 = 1520yrs

2010- 1520=490 AD
So my 38th Grandfather should have been born between 490 and 1520 AD
He was born C. 160 so there are between 300 and 1360 years missing

in generations that means there are between (300/40) = 7.5 and (1520/20)
76 Generations missing in the tree!
I noticed this kind of thing when Caesar Augustus bor in BC was my 37th Grandfather. Still a lot of work to do!!

9/23/2010 at 8:04 AM

Private User@Bj
Your talking about people merging profiles that are stacked by curators but they are not yet sure they should be merged.
I have not been merging profiles that have a curators note, are you saying that we shoukd not merge ANY profiles in the merge issues that were made by curators because they may not be ready to be merged yet? How are we to know what to merge and what to let be then?

Private User
9/23/2010 at 8:09 AM

Good math Marvin

He is my 40th great grandfather and if we use your math but instead I do 30 years as average age for each Generation.
He should then have been my 61-62 great grandfather.

Private User
9/23/2010 at 8:11 AM

If a curator note says, "Do not merge" is generally the clue. :) Otherwise I think you can go ahead.

9/23/2010 at 8:14 AM

Private User@Glen
and 60 *30 = 1800 so by your math there are about 1800 years missing!!!!!!

Private User
9/23/2010 at 8:21 AM

Geni says "Fornjot King of Kvenland is your 39th great grandfather." Well, I don't care if he's 39th, 49th, 59th, it is just interesting that he's in my tree at all.

Private User
9/23/2010 at 8:25 AM

Marvin Caulk, (C), how did you get 1800 years?

My Math is like this
2010 - 160 = 1850
1850 / 30 = 61.67

so 61.67 - 40 = 21.67 missing generation
21.67 x 30 = 650 years missing

9/23/2010 at 9:20 AM

Private User@glen
Ok, To early in the morning!!

9/23/2010 at 9:43 AM

And then, since there are so many generations missing, the natural consequence should be that the link back to him should be removed until the area with uncertainty has been identified and rectified.

I do not like profiles that are wrong in our tree, and here is most definetly one.

You can link him back in when the possibility that the line back to him is more than 50% (preferrably 66-75%) probable correct. So please break the line at the point where ancestry is less than 50% correct.

We must try to get a tree that is as correct as possible. Unless we achieve this, the genealogical community in the world will only think of Geni as garbage and spreading of unreliable genealogical information. And I, for one, will not like that. Some are allready talking about Geni as unreliable and that genealogists should stay away. We must rectify that impression.

9/23/2010 at 9:59 AM

The most obvious of the dubious connections is Sveidi Heytirsson, Norse King, c. 650's parentage, as he is listed as being 175 years younger than his father. There are others in the chain (I'm going up through Guillaume 'Longue-Épée' / William 'Longsword') that seem extremely unlikely, if not altogether impossible.

Private User
9/23/2010 at 10:18 AM

Speaking of relationships; lately I'm noticing something strange with my direct ancestors and their siblings, for example
While one of them is my 8th great grandfather his siblings are my 9th great uncles and aunts
Can someone please explain this ?

Private User
9/23/2010 at 11:17 AM

I hit the link to visit Fornjot a dozen more times. Maybe we can move him up to #26 of the top 100.

9/23/2010 at 11:51 AM

Remi Pedersen@REMI
Cutting the links just put more profiles in the wind, all the Generations are there, it's a problem that they are linled/merged wrong. Many have the wrong parents. Once the parents are set right the line should correct itself. Once the curators get to this line they'll untangle it, meanwhile if you see one that has more than one parent, try to set the correct one or let the curators no the probelm with the profile.

9/23/2010 at 12:20 PM

@Marvin This is my line back to Fornjot. This line is more or less proven back to Margrethe Iversdatter Aspa. Her mother though, that in this line is said to be Kristin Toraldesdatter, is wrong, and is even proven wrong. This is what I mean about severing the links. My line back to this Fornjot should have been severed between Margrethe Iversdatter Aspa and Kristin Toraldesdatter. Kristin has never and will never be Margrethes mother. There are a lot of mistakes like this in Geni, and one of our main goals should be to get rid of wrongs like this.

You → Svein Johan Pedersen your father → Inga Karoline Mathilde Johansen his mother → Hans Monrad Johansen her father → Johan Lauritz Hansen his father → Aasel Birgitha Christophersdatter his mother
→ Christopher Hansen her father → Oselle Maria Christophersdatter Ellingsen his mother → Christopher Ellingsen her father → Elling Christophersen his father → Karen Jonsdatter his mother → Berethe Christensdatter Aalborg her mother → Margrethe Jonsdatter Benkestok
her mother → Jon (2) Trondsson Benkestok her father → Trond (3) Torleivsen Benkestok his father → Adelus Erichsdatter Kruckow
his mother → Margrethe Iversdatter Aspa (NB IKKE Kristinas datter) her mother → Kristin Toraldesdatter her mother → Toralde Sigurdson Smørhatt her father → Gautesson Galtung his father → Gaut Gautesön
his father → Gaut Jonsson på Mel his father → Jon Gauteson Gautenes Ænes (gautesen) his father → Gaute Ornes (Ormson) his father → Orm Eilifsson Opplandsjarl his father → Ragnhild Haakonsdotter på Lade his mother → Tora/Thora Skagesdatter (Torbergsdatter) her mother → Ingebjørg (Ragnhild) Håkonsdatter her mother → Hakon Grotgardsson Ladejarl d.y. her father → Grjotgard Herlaugsson Ladejarl his father → Herlaug Haraldsson Haraldsson his father → Signy Sigardsdatter his mother → Sigurd Grjotgardsson her father → Grjotgard Gardsson his father → Gardur i Norsson (Norrson) his father → Norr Thorrasson, King of Alfheim his father → Thorri Snaersson, king in Kvenland his father → Snaer Jokulsson, King of Kvenland his father → Frosti / Jøkull Karasson, King of Kvenland his father → Kari Fornjotsson, King in Kvenland his father
→ Fornjot King of Kvenland his father

Private User
9/23/2010 at 3:40 PM

@ Marvin Caulk sir math is flawless... however, ppl in those ages are believed to have longer lifetimes... so anything is possible

9/23/2010 at 3:42 PM

The best way to get rid of the ridiculous generation number / birthdate would be to delete all birthdates in the Fornjot line. As far as I can tell, they're all unfounded guesswork anyway, and it's not even documented who did the guesses.

The number of generations, though ..... that's based on the Icelandic sagas, and while they may not be the fount of ground truth in all things, they're probably the best information we'll ever get on those particular lines.

So let's bring our sources to the tree, and perhaps one day someone will write down a proper set of estimates that doesn't make anyone feel ridiculous. Or perhaps not.

Document, don't delete!

Private User
9/23/2010 at 3:44 PM

http://www.geni.com/people/Adam-a-s-%D8%A2%D8%AF%D9%85/600000000627...

also "Adam" as in islam as the first prophets (nabi)... is my 88th great grandfather, the math will definitely not work out, lol

Private User
9/23/2010 at 3:56 PM

38th great grandfather - but missing a lot of generations! And he was a giant?! Must read the saga.

9/23/2010 at 4:13 PM

Ofir you're probably seeing a "cached" (temporarily saved) relationship. It should correct itself in a few days.

Private User
9/23/2010 at 4:20 PM

Michael; Do you mean that it's "added date related" or something in general that should be resolved/fixed in a few days?

:-)

9/23/2010 at 6:26 PM

Please, people, I'm a genealogist that feels it's more important to have quality than quantity, as you all should feel. It is a lot more important that our ancestral tree is correct than that we are related to Fornjot, Charlemagne, George V, Caesar, Jesus, Adam, God, Muhammed, Barrack Obama, Goerge Clooney or George Bush.

So please keep Adam out of this discussion.

We have to keep our trees as correct as possible. Every link has to be more than a 50% (preferrably 66-75%) chance to be correct. If not the link should be severed.

Genealogy is not about having the most people in your database, it's not about getting as far back in time as possible, it's not about beeing related to various famous people. GENEALOGY IS ABOUT TRACKING YOUR ANCESTRY, PEDIGREE AND FAMILYRELATION AND GETTING IT AS CORRECT AS POSSIBLE (excuse my shouting). If you're in doubt about a relationship, please investigate it further, before putting it out on a world wide genealogy site as Geni. If you're in doubt about a realtionship, please keep it on your own private database until you're not in doubt anymore. And do not ever ad a gedcom-file that you have downloaded from some internet-site, wether it beeing Ancestry.com, Rootsweb, Familysearch, or some other website. If you haven't researched the data yourself, and are able to say "I am pretty sure this data is correct, and I have checked most of the primary sources myself", please leave it out of the Geni-site. We have enough garbage here as it is.

Our most important goal is to get a correct worldwide tree.

Please, try to do it this way and remove everything that is not probable and have at least more than 50% chance to be correct.

People, genealogy is not a guesswork, it is a science, please, let us live up to that standard. I want our tree to be correct, the rest I do not care about. You should do the same.

9/24/2010 at 5:00 AM

@Ofir:

"Speaking of relationships; lately I'm noticing something strange with my direct ancestors and their siblings, for example
While one of them is my 8th great grandfather his siblings are my 9th great uncles and aunts
Can someone please explain this?"

In my family at least (and in others I knew of here in NY State, our great aunts and uncles were the sisters/brothers of our grandparents. So the brother/sister of our Great Grandparent would be a 2x great aunt or uncle and so on. So it might seem that they're different generations, but it's just the naming/title convention that's a bit different. Hope that helps.

Private User
12/21/2011 at 10:38 AM

If you check the dates in your decendency charts, you should find problem areas.

Looking at the chart, i get 45 generations with 5-12 missing generations between you and Fornjot

You <alive>
→ Svein Johan Pedersen <alive>
→ Inga Karoline Mathilde Johansen 1910 - 1997
→ Hans Monrad Johansen 1868 - 1920
→ Johan Lauritz Hansen 1844 - 1939
→ Aasel Birgitha Christophersdatter 1815 - 1888
→ Christopher Hansen 1786 - 1835 [There are two copies of him & his wife]
→ Oselle Maria Christophersdatter Ellingsen 1750 - 1813
→ Christopher Ellingsen 1719 - 1791
→ Elling Christophersen 1676 - 1730
→ Karen Jonsdatter c 1652 - 1734
→ Berethe Christensdatter Aalborg c 1620 - 1675
→ Margrethe Jonsdatter Benkestok c 1588 - 1673
[great*10 grandmother
→ Jon (2) Trondsson Benkestok 1527 - 1593
→ Trond (3) Torleivsen Benkestok 1495 - 1558
→ Adelus Erichsdatter Kruckow 1460 - 1530
→ Margrethe Iversdatter Aspa c 1448 - c 1471
[ NOT → Kristin Toraldesdatter c 1395 - 1463 but her brother: ]
-> Ivar Toraldesson Aspa c 1390 - c 1415 [in GENI]
[ was dead ~33 years when daughter was born, when he would have been ~58]
→ Toralde Sigurdson Smørhatt 1350 - 1405
[his father is not [Sigurd] Gautesson Galtun, but Sigurd Gunnarsson Hvite Kane ]
[ The following 8 problematic generations (for 460 years) are replaced by another path of 15 generations currently in GENI ]
XXX→ Gautesson Galtung his father
XXX→ Gaut Gautesön 1244 - 1306 [not a Benkestok ancestor]
XXX→ Gaut Jonsson på Mel 1190 - 1270
XXX [ father is 50 at birth]
XXX→ Jon Gauteson Gautenes Ænes c 1140 - c 1181
XXX→ Gaute Ornes (Ormson) c 1100 - c 1160
XXX [ father is 90 and 45 years dead at birth. Missing generations here.]
XXX→ Orm Eilifsson Opplandsjarl 1010 - 1055
XXX [ mother was 44 at birth ]
XXX → Ragnhild Haakonsdotter på Lade b. 966
XXX [ no longer in GENI: → Tora/Thora Skagesdatter (Torbergsdatter) her mother ] ]
-> Sigurd Gunnarsson Hvit Kane b. c 1310
[father was ~ 15 years old]
-> Gunar I Toraldesson Kane c 1295 - 1347
-> Thoron Haakonsdater Kane Brandenburg 1225 - 1300
-> Haakon IV Haakonsson 1204 - 1263
[great*20 grandfather]
-> Haakon III Sverresson, King of Norway c 1180 - 1204
-> Sverre I, King of Norway 1152 - 1202
-> Gunhild Gudmundsdotter Stadheim c 1130 - c 1200
-> Sigrid Giske
-> Paal Skofteson Giske c 1080 - c 1140
-> Skofte Ogmundson c 1045 - 1102
-> Gudrun Tordsdatter b. c 1025
-> Aalov Einarsdotter b. c 1005
-> Bergliot Haakonsdatter c 980 - c 1055
-> Haakon Sigurdson Ladejarl, King of Norway c 935 - c 995
[great*30 grandfather]
-> Sigurd Haakonsson Ladejarl Hladir c 890 - c 962
→ Ingebjørg (Ragnhild) Håkonsdatter c 855 - 878
→ Hakon Grotgardsson Ladejarl d.y. c 838 - 917
→ Grjotgard Herlaugsson Ladejarl c 790 - 867
→ Herlaug Haraldsson Haraldsson 765 - 825
→ Signy Sigardsdatter 744 - 799
→ Sigurd Grjotgardsson 726 - 775
→ Grjotgard Gardsson 680 - 726
[father is 280 at Grjotgard's birth 5-12 generations missing here]
[great*38 grandfather]
→ Gardur i Norsson (Norrson) b. c 400 [father is 55]
→ Norr Thorrasson, King of Alfheim 345 - 445
→ Thorri Snaersson, king in Kvenland b. c 320
[date of birth is ~19 years after father died. Both are estimates, father could have
been 50]
→ Snaer Jokulsson, King of Kvenland c 270 - c 301
→ Frosti / Jøkull Karasson, King of Kvenland c 240 - c 277
→ Kari Fornjotsson, King in Kvenland c 185 - c 240
→ Fornjot King of Kvenland c 160 - c 230

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