Another example of multiple line confusion. ANY HELP OR IDEAS on how to fix?

Started by Private User on Monday, November 8, 2010

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Private User
11/8/2010 at 9:53 AM

example.
Louis 'le Pieux' (778-840), King of the Franks is your 25th great uncle's grandmother's husband. Son of Charlemagne, HRE Louis The Pious is the husband of Judith of Bayern...so far so good. I don't want to confuse anyone but please follow my thinking.

How come when I click on her husbands name from her link do I get the listing below which is a different line from the one I am following that shows her to be a direct great great (multiple x) grandparent? I expect it to say, Louis is my great great (multiple x) grandfather, not "great uncle's grandmother's husband"

Louis 'le Pieux' (778-840), King of the Franks should show up as my 38th great grandfather and by extension Charlemagne as my 39th. It all gets screwed up from here.
LINE ONE. (DISPUTED because of Francois Savoie..noone is sure of his parentage)
Gregory→ David Louis Fournerat Sr. your father..xxx ancestors
François Savoie, Prince her father→
Tomaso Francesco (Thomas Francis) Savoie/Savoye/Savoy Prince of Carignano his father→
Charles Savoy, I, Duke of Savoy his father→
Marguerite de Valois, Duchesse de Berri his mother→
Francis I 'the Father and Restorer of Letters', King of France (1515-1547) her father→
Louise Duchesse de Auvergne-Bourbon-Nemours his mother→
Marguerite de Bourbon her mother→ Agnes de Bourgogne her mother→
Margaret de Burgundy princess of Bavaria her mother→
Albert I von Wittelsbach,Count her father→
Louis IV, Holy Roman Emperor his father→
Ludwig Von Wittelsbach,Duke Of Upper Bavaria his father→
Agnes von Braunschweig his mother→
Heinrich Brunswick, Duke her father→
Heinrich 'der Löwe', Herzog von Braunschweig Lüneburg his father→
Gertrud of Süpplingenburg, Duchess of Bavaria his mother→
Lothar II (826-869) Roi de Lothuringia, King her brother→
Lothair I Holy Roman Emperor, King of Italy and Holy Roman Emperor his father→
Irmingard in de Haspengouw his mother→
Louis 'le Pieux' (778-840),King of the Franks her husband

OK. Now, the line I want to follow since Francoise Savoie's parentage is disputed and there is little or no controversy about this one is:

Judith von Bayern-Altdorf is your 38th great grandmother. (wife of Louis "le Pieux")
You →
David Louis Fournerat Sr. your father→
show xxx multiple relatives→
Pierre Doucet her father→
Marguerite Martin his mother→
Jeanne Comeau her mother→
Jeanne Bourg (Bourque) her mother→
Antoinette Bourg (Landry) her mother→
Jean Claude Landry her father→
Claude Landry his father→
Francois De La Tour Landry his father→
Jean De La Tour Landry his father→
Hardouin De Maille, X his father→
Antoinette DeChauvigny his mother→
Catherine Montmorency-Laval her mother→
Jeanne Montmorency-Laval her mother→
Jean Montmorency-Laval her father→
André de Montmorency-Laval his father→
Jeanne Queen of Jerusalem his mother→
Louis de Brienne, Viscount de Beaumont her father→
Berenguela II de León his mother→
Berenguela de Castilla, (Queen her mother→
Alfonso VIII of Castile her father→
Blanca de Navarra, Reina de Castilla his mother→
Marguerite Rotrou her mother→
Julienne du Perche her mother→
Béatrix de Montdidier/de Roucy her mother→
Adela de Roucy, Comtesse de Roucy her mother→
Beatrix de Comtesse Hainault her mother→
Hedwige de France (dau of Hugues Capet & Adelais) her mother→
Adelaide of Aquitaine her mother→
William III 'Towhead' of Aquitaine her father→
Ebles 'Manzer' de Poitiers, Duc d'Aquitaine his father→
Ermengarde De France his mother→
Louis II Roi de France, II her father→
Charles II 'the Bald', King of the Franks (840-877) and Emperor of the Romans (875-877) his father→
Judith von Bayern-Altdorf his mother

This happens throughout the tree and is very frustrating and makes for historical nightmares.

Private User
11/8/2010 at 10:19 AM

Oh boy. Louis the Pious daughter Gisela is my 35th great grandmother in this line but each time I click her fathers name I get another spastic relationship.

Gisèle of the West Franks

Gisela, daughter of Louis is your 35th great grandmother.
You →
David Louis Fournerat Sr. your father→

SHOW MULTIPLE ancestors xxxxx

Eleanor of England, Reina de Castilla her mother→
Henry II of England her father→
^Empress Mathilda "Maud" Plantagenet his mother→
Henry I "Beauclerc", King of England her father→
Matilda of Flanders his mother→
Baldwin V Count of Flanders her father→
Baldwin IV Count of Flanders his father→
Rozala of Italy his mother→
Berengar II of Italy
her father→
Gisela of Friuli his mother→
Berengar I of Italy her father
→ Gisela, daughter of Louis his mother

DOESN'T LOGIC dictate that Louis is then 36th GGF by this line?
Again, I get the most convuluted realationship results.
This makes for complete frustration.
On one hand, it is GREAT to have so many paths to historical movers and shakers, but when you are trying to trace ONE line as opposed to another, it really is trying my patience.
Thanks for letting me vent.

I know..noone is reading this....

11/8/2010 at 11:09 AM

These relationship descriptions are not completely re-generated each time you view a profile. This is why you come across a non-direct relationship link now and again.
To generate a new description on every profile visit would be too much work on Geni's servers. To offset this they save some of this information to make it faster to calculate. Sometimes that includes data linking you in a non-direct fashion. There is a limit to how much time that the data is temporarily stored before a button to refresh the relationship link appears. I'm not sure how long that is.

Private User
11/8/2010 at 1:15 PM

Jonathan is correct. Also the database is completely re-indexed several times a week, which may then show a different path after. And just to confuse it further, there is mega- amounts of merging activity going on (a good thing) -- which means that geni servers have to catch up to the busy bees cleaning up the duplicates. Keep at it, worker bees!

Private User
11/10/2010 at 8:53 AM

The flip side to all of this is that all my "favorites" of particular people I am following in the NON-Francois Savoie (post 9th great grandfather) connections are apparently butchered now. I have no idea what happened to the line that I listed above as:
Pierre Doucet her father→
Marguerite Martin his mother→
Jeanne Comeau her mother→
Jeanne Bourg (Bourque) her mother→
Antoinette Bourg (Landry) her mother→
Jean Claude Landry her father→
Claude Landry his father→
Francois De La Tour Landry his father→
Jean De La Tour Landry his father

etc..etc. for some reason, all my relationships are jacked now and only the Francois Savoie "alleged" ancestors show up. That's great but I still have no faith in that line, however exciting the ties. I'll stick with facts but now my facts are jacked.

Private User
11/10/2010 at 10:30 AM

I see now with a little investigation how the line got changed again.
There was a recent revision in the parentage of Antoinette Landry Bourg
Antoinette Landry

Per the records cited, her father is not a Jean Claude Landry as previously indicated but rather Étienne Landry and Catherine Goulet as mother.

This is a game changer for sure if this relation is correct, and on first pass appears to be a major historical fix.
Thanks for the change, even though it deflates my line a bit.

The changes seem to have been made recently since Nov. 6th.

Now I know why it defaults back to the lines after Francois Savoie (I'll just fake that it is true now) regarding the royal ties. Oh well.

Private User
11/10/2010 at 5:34 PM

I'm probably the one that changed the Landry Bourg line. I was trying to correct it. Rene l'Aîné Landry 1618 (Antoinette's brother) is often confused here with René le Jeune Landry 1634 (son of Jean Claude Landry - though that is also questioned). My mother is a Landry and Rene l'Aîné is my 10th great grandfather (Étienne Landry my 11th). While doing this, I corrected all the siblings and children. Claude Landry is another one that is often confused (one the son of Rene l'Aîné and the other the son of René le Jeune) and both boys were born in the same year, same place. I'll try to add some additional sourcing. I pasted a good mess of material in the Rene profiles.

Private User
11/18/2010 at 7:37 AM

Thanks Jeff! I just read this a week after you posted it. It made a significant difference in alleged family tree. Good for historical accuracy, bad for my wannabe royalty through this line. LOL.

Now I have struck out on both major lines to royalty assertion. LOL.
At least I can safely say that Beyonce and Angelina Jolie are true cousins. Yippee. If they are beyond 2nd, they are OK to marry in some states. LOL.
Ooops. I think they are taken.

1/21/2011 at 6:12 PM

Thanks Jeff, I too decend from both Francois Savoie and Anntoinette Landry Bourg

1/21/2011 at 6:17 PM

Hmm I just visited the main page for Charlemagne and it says he is still my 29th great grandfather

Private User
1/22/2011 at 12:55 PM

Renee. Check the line of descent and make sure whether it says it is going through any relation between Francois Savoie and any alleged parents.
If it says Tommas Francesco (Thomas Francis) Savoia or Savoy or Marie Bourbon, it is suspect.
I disregard that line and just proudly claim Francois as my 9th great grandfather and be proud of that. He is a worthy ancestor in and of his own without pretend ties to ancestry he may not have relation to.

On the other hand, you may have discovered lines through your other parent perhaps? or even another connection through same parent. I did on both to Charlemagne. 29th and 30th ggf respectively.

Private User
1/22/2011 at 1:04 PM

I think there were some further clarifications on the lines from Antonette back through the Landry De La Tours which opened the profiles back up AND gave a glimmer of hope back to those who have faith in some royal ties. LOL. like me. If my father's line isn't rightly proven, then at last my mom's is. I like the idea of both.

8/22/2011 at 10:41 PM

Greg; check the other discussion regarding Francois Savoie-I put a bit up about my Saint Etienne De La Tour line (Down through d'Entremont to Amirault to Boudreau)
I haven't been on here in a long time and for some reason I can't view profiles?? I don't get it.....
Nor can I add parents for my ancestor Venerante (d'Entremont) Amirault.....argh...

Private User
8/23/2011 at 6:19 AM

Yep Renee. The upside to Geni is you find you are related to more than just your immediate familial circle. Those of us who are blessed with a rich ancestry beyond "Great Great Grandpappy fought in the Civil War..." as in the movers and shakers of multiple societies (kings, queens, dukes, earls, barons, counts, warrior elite, scholar, poet, philosopher, explorer, and high level cleric or founder of a religion-not necessarily in that order) are screwed if we are not GENI PRO. If you have not already tapped into your ancestry and are just starting out, your options are limited and no changes or modifications without some help from a pro. The removal of merge functions for non-Pros is a negative. Yes, there were people that abused it and those that came on here to screw up people's trees but those of us who are responsible to history (good and bad in our families) were doing it right. The turf wars over 'don't touch my family' caused this. The problem is, they are MY family and YOUR family too, especially historical notables. arrggh. Sorry. Off my Soap Box now.
I will be happy to explore the avenues you shared. The De La Tour and Landry possibilities are disputed in some lines but the line you mention may very well be historically intact! Good work finding the link!

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