Cecely Reynolds Baley Jordan

Started by Private User on 2010年12月22日(星期三)

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Private User
2010年12月22日下午12点14分

re: Cecily Reynolds

There's a lot of speculation and errors about this lady.

The best web info I've found so far is here:
* http://biographiks.com/pleasant/cecely.htm
* http://www.reynoldsfamily.org/line17/chris_3.html
* http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sassytazzy/family...

I've attached them to her profile as PDF files as well as some other web pages I've found.

On her parentage:

-- Variously ... she's a Fludd, a street orphan, a Green, related to Lord West, a niece of William Peirce .... and the daughter of Thomas and Cecily Phippen Reynolds of Dorsetshire. To me this seems pretty compelling:

"Cicely Reynolds Baley's mother was Samuel Jordan's first cousin in Dorsetshire. The Jordan ancestor in England, Thomas Jordan of Dorsetshire, had at least two children: Thomas, Jr. and Cicilie. Cicilie, married in 1580 to "Robert Fitzpen als Fippen of Wamouth in Com. Dorset." Their youngest daughter, Cicilie Fitzpen, was born in 1593 and married a man named Reynolds. Their daughter was Cicely Reynolds."

On her arrival is America:

-- she is a documented Ancient Planter and listed as Sisley Jordan in the first muster at Jamestown, 1624. She is listed in the ship's roster for "The Swan" 1610 along with 9 other passengers. If this is indeed the same person, and it seems most likely she's been accepted as such by lineage societies etc.

This, I believe, makes her the first surviving English woman living in the Virginia Colony. Pretty cool.

-- On her marriages:

Cecily Reynolds Bailey. This is a young woman of some international reputation and speculation. Much has been written about her various marriages and affairs.

Arriving in the summer of 1610 aboard the Swan, Cicely Reynolds was only ten years of age. Soon after she married William Baily. Samuel Jordan's later land grant would be in an area called Bailey's Point. This was owned by William Baley, the first husband of Cicely Reynolds. They had one child, Temperance Baley, born in 1617, who was named for Temperance Flowerdew, the future wife of General Yardley.

Apparently, William Baley died soon after the marriage, for in 1620, Cicely Reynolds Baley married Samuel Jordan ... [son of] Thomas Jordan Jr. Samuel was married in Dorsetshire and had three children by this first marriage, including Thomas Jordan who was born in 1600. ....

Samuel Jordan died in 1623, leaving two children by his marriage to Cicely: Mary Jordan and Margery Jordan. He also left his step-daughter, Temperance Baley, as well as his three children by his first marriage in Dorsetshire.

Immediately after the death of Samuel, Jordan, rich, landed, gay and fascinating Cicely was courted intensely by Parson Greville Pooley and Councillor William Farrar. Cicely discarded Parson Pooley with little ceremony and Farrar moved into Beggers Bush. Word of the scandal, aided by an outraged Pooley, spread through colonial America. Pooley sued and the issue became too much to be handled by the government of Virginia and was remanded to England for disposition. Farrar married Cicely Reynolds Baley Jordan.

****
I believe the supposed 4th marriage to Peter Montague is a long term mixup with her daughter. The marriage to Thomas Parker is possible, but there's no record (nor any theoretical children).

I currently have her profile listed this way.

Curator note:

Cecely Reynolds Baley Jordan (ca. 1600-ca. 1662). Parents: Thomas Reynolds & Cecily Phippen (not verified). Married 1: Thomas Bailey. Married 2: Samuel Jordan. Married 3: William Farrar. Reported 4th & 5th: Peter Montague, Thomas Parker.

But I'm inclined to break the marriage connection to Peter Montague and re-assign to the more likely Cicely Jordan, daughter of Cecely Reynolds & Samuel Jordan.

What's your opinion?

2010年12月23日下午 1点18分

Excellent!

Private User
2010年12月23日下午 1点26分

I really went to town on Cecily the Flirt's profile -- partly because they done an extensive archeological project of "Jordan's Landing" and found all kinds of fascinating artifacts. Some of the images are in her "media gallery" as well as documents.

In thinking about it and looking thru the records, I am further interested in the Phippen / Dorset / Burnham, England connection, and wonder if we should be looking there for English Reynolds records.

I don't fathom they sent an 11 year old child off to Virginia alone (why did she go, though?), so I think she really was related to the Peirce's she lived with, and that there are connections back in Dorset. Have you looked into Reynolds there at all?

2010年12月23日下午 1点36分

No have not yet looked around Dorset. Have been distracted by chasing down info on Justin Winsor, a noted librarian in 19th c. Boston, other side of my family.

2010年12月23日下午 1点38分

Regarding Cecily et al, I looked at all the materials you collected, you have made huge advances.

Private User
2010年12月23日下午 1点41分

I hope he's not as interesting as the Reynolds turn out to be or I'll never see you again. :)

I invited my cousins (including ones that live in Brookline and Lexington ... up your way, right?). They are rapidly getting obsessed and also asking -- when did you get all these 16th century ancestors?? Is that your Dad's side?

2010年12月23日下午 2点41分

This is great Erica. I noticed that the about me is empty on her profile - did you mean to delete it?

2010年12月23日下午 6点07分

Some of Cecily's children need to be spread around to some of the other Jordan wives, born before she was.

Re your earier question, I grew up in Concord, across the street from the famous bridge, but live in CT now. The Winsors are on my mother's side, they were many in Duxbury in early colonial years, involved in shipbuilding, etc., and are cousins (I think) of Joshua Winsor, who was among founders of Rhode Island. Looking for common ancestor in England to prove it out.

Private User
2010年12月25日下午 3点33分

Hi Noah,

No, I emptied out Cecily's "about me" to re-do it. Then got distracted by her husbands, Samuel Jordan, of Jordan's Journey, Councillor William Farrar, and by re-assigning children, and by looking to connections in Dorset, England .... and by merging up.

It's going to end up really good though. I'm really impressed by the Reynolds tree, it's totally clean in the upper branches, and looking pretty good in New England.

Private User
2010年12月26日上午 1点32分

I have seen Cicely Phippen, she is the d/o Robert Fitzpen Phippen who died 12 Oct 1589 and was married 18 Sept 1580 at Weymouth, Dorset, England to Cecily Jordan. Robert was the s/o John Fitzpen and Anne Holton. And Cecily Jordan is the d/o Thomas Jordan and Agnes Brute and that makes her the sister of the Reverend Robert Jordan. But all this is unverified, though it may be helpful.
I am still having difficulty with Samuel Jordan and Cicely Reynolds and what children belong to which of their marriages. I am mainly concerned with Thomas Jordan who married Lucy Corker and Mary Jordan who married Nathaniel Basse.

Private User
2010年12月26日上午10点37分

Hi Kim,

Today I'm working on the children -- merging dups and documenting as I go. When done I'll post back for your proofread / sanity check.

Private User
2010年12月26日上午11点54分

Has anyone found any documentation for Cicely Reynold's parents? I don't mean books but wills, etc....primary sources.
It looks like Margaret is Samuel and Cicely's childr....but there are probably more if they married ca 1620....Cicely was pregnant with Margaret when Samuel died which would put Margaret being born in 1632, That is a gap of 12 years to have children.
I thought Mary might be their child, but she married Nathaniel Basse 21 May 1613 which means she would have had to have been born ca 1593 or 94 making her about 19 or 20 when she married....which means she would have been Samuel and Frances's first born child most likely....assuming the marriage date to Basse is correct.

Private User
2010年12月26日上午11点57分

And I was wrong about Robert Fitzpen Phippen's parents....I think they were Joseph Fitzpen and Alice Pierce. But need someone looking into the records at Dorset County to verify.

Private User
2010年12月26日下午 4点44分

Below is a copy of what Rowdan had for Cecily Reynold's children; it matches what I've found.

Samuel Jordan's will was lost; his inventory of estate named William Farrar, as his attorney / overseer, and his wife Cecily. The muster of 1624/1625 clearly has Cecily Jordan, at Jordan's Journey, living in a household with her own two Jordan children: Mary born about 1621 and Margaret born about 1623, *after* her father's death. She had children with William Farrar later. Is that the Margaret you're thinking of? Because I believe there is no further record of Margaret Jordan b. 1623.

Cecily Reynolds' parents will probably remain unverified, alas, after 400 years of people looking for records. The circumstantial evidence (family naming patterns; having lived, in VA before marriage with the Peirces, first husband Bayley being a cousin of the Reynolds / Phippen family) to me suggests strongly that she was in fact part of this Dorset family.

Posted by Rawdon Parry:

Here's what I've been able find out:

Cicely Bailey Jordan Farrar appears to have first married Thomas Bailey and to have had with him a daughter, Temperance Bailey. Soon after Bailey's death around 1621, Cicely had married the widower, Samuel Jordan, who then died in 1623. The 1624/5 Jamestown Muster shows Samuel Jordan's only children by Cicely were two daughters, Mary Jordan (age 3) and Margaret Jordan (age 1), who were living with their mother at Jordan's Journey. That is the extent of their progeny.

On the other hand, Samuel and first wife, Frances had four children:

1. Anne Marie Jordan, born 1596 in England; died 17 January 1628/29 in London, England; married Laurence Hulet 1618; born 1598; died 1658.

2. Robert Jordan, born 1598 in Dorsetshire, England; died 22 March 1621/22 in Indian massacre at Berkley's Hundred, Jamestown

More about Robert Jordan:
Robert Jordan was killed by Indians, while going to the Berkley's Hundred/Plantation, Jamestown, VA, to warn them of the impending attack. He is believed to be buried at Jordan's Journey (now Jordan Point), VA.

3. Thomas Jordan, Sr., born 1600 in Wiltshire, England; died 1685 in Isle of Wight Co., VA; married Lucy Corker Abt. 1627 in Nansemond Co., VA.

4. Samuel Jordan, Jr., born Abt. 1608 in Dorsetshire, England; died 1632 in Brunswick Co., VA.

More About Samuel Jordan, Jr.:
Fact 1: He was living in VA before 1626
Fact 2: Sometime before 1626, he returned to VA from an educational sojourn in England
Fact 3: In 1623-24, at age 18, he enrolled at All Souls College, Oxford, England

As far as I can tell, there was no third wife, Ann France.

Plus, the following children currently listed under Samuel and Cicely appear to be in error:

Mary Jordan (1592-1630)... before Cicely was born
Joan Jordan (1593-1633)... before Cicely was born
Joane Jordan (1598-1630)... before Cicely was born
Richard Jordan (1624-1702)... after Samuel was dead
Richard Jordan (1645-?)... after Samuel was dead
Elizabeth Jordan (deceased)
John Jordan (deceased)

Private User
2010年12月26日下午 5点02分

P.S. So as you can see, I believe your lineage would go like this:

Samuel Jordan + 1st wife (unknown, died in England before 1609)
their son:
Thomas Jordan, Sr., born 1600 in Wiltshire, England; died 1685 in Isle of Wight Co., VA; married Lucy Corker Abt. 1627 in Nansemond Co., VA.

Cecily Reynolds being his stepmother (and actually younger than him, as her best birthdate seems to be 1602).

Private User
2010年12月26日下午 8点03分

I have two lineages....via Thomas Jordan and Lucy Corker....which seems explained. And Mary Jordon who married Nathaniel Basse, but I don't see how that is likely as this Mary Jordon would have to be born around 1621.
So who did this Mary Jordon marry?
And who are the parents of my Mary Jordan?

The problem is the John Basse's Sermon Book. A copy of it is supposed to be found in the State Library of Virginia and states:

Nathaniell Basse and Mary Jordan was married ye 21 day of May in ye year of our blessed Lord and Saviour 1613.

And then goes on to list all their children.

On April 27, 1619 a ship, Marygold, commanded by Capt. Evans arrived at Jamestown, Virginia. Passengers listed: Capt. Christopher lawne, Sir Richard Worsley, Nathaniel Basse, John Hobson, Anthony Olevan, Richard Wiseman, Robert Newland, Robert Gyner, and William Willis.

Private User
2010年12月27日上午 6点40分

That has to be a different Mary Jordan, as the daughter of Cecily Reynolds and Samuel Jordan was born about 1621 according to the Jamestown Muster of 1624.

Private User
2010年12月27日上午 6点41分

P.S. I'll work on her later. My first priority is to get Cecily Reynolds sorted out according to best evidence.

Private User
2010年12月27日上午 7点46分

There are Assembly notes that mention Basse and Jordon both present so these men knew each other. My Mary Jordon must be related in some way to Samuel Jordan. Maybe his daughter with Frances as she could be their first born. It is not unheard of to have more than one child with the same name. I don't think it is possible for her to be Samuel's sister cause of the gap in their ages. Cousin is always a possibility. I think I need to take a closer look at where in England Nathaniel Basse hailed from as i believe he married my Mary Jordan in England and see if they were near the origin place of the Jordans. I appreciate your help!

Private User
2010年12月27日上午 7点51分

I agree the answers may be back in Dorset and I've been meaning to look into the families there.

I think it likely that the Phippens, Bayleys, Pierces, Jordans, Reynolds, Basses, etc. likely knew each other there and were related / intermarried. And that they participated in the joint business ventures that resulted in the Jamestown colony.

They seemed to be of a monied, mercantile, adventuring, sea going and soldiering class: with court connections, but not directly royalty. A "new breed" of English, as it were.

Private User
2010年12月27日下午 2点44分

Well, good lord I don't know what to make of this. Nathaniel Basse was born in London..he was baptized at the St. Gabriel Church on Frenchchurch St. in London......he ended up buried at the St. Alphage Church in London as well. Dorset is located in the south of England. Look at Dorset on Google maps in relation to London....I think it is just too far for there to have been pre new world contact. Course the thing to keep in mind is that these are the up and coming middle class which is mercantile and trading. They would be on top of transportation to be sure. Am afraid I am going to have to say this is probably a totally different Jordan family.
Course on the other hand....there is some controversy over Nathaniel Basse. I think the next thing I need to know is where did his ship, the Marygold depart from England....what specific place. If it is in Dorset well then I'd be of a mind to think that my Mary Jordon is related to Samuel Jordan but if that ship is sailing from some other port, then all bets are off.

Private User
2010年12月27日下午 4点04分

Ok did some digging. I can not find out from where in England the Marygold sailed. I did learn one of her passengers, Christopher Lawne's stepdaughter married Edward Bennet who was a wealthy London merchant. Edward Bennet spefically mentions Nathaniel Basse in a letter he writes in 1631. Christopher Lawne was born in Blandfordforum in Dorset. So it seems to me that there are London and Dorset ties in this Adventure. So I am back to thinking my Mary Jordan must be related to Samuel Jordan in some manner.

Private User
2010年12月29日下午 6点38分

I merged up a bunch of Basse's and they do marry into the Jourdan family (not Jordan / Jourdain, but Jourdon / Jourdan) of LONDON.

Which seems related to Jordan's of New England - not Virginia.

Now, they could all connect up back in England. But it will be interesting to see where the merging takes us.

I agree about the "class." The New England Jourdons / Jourdans / Jordans I briefly saw seemed to include a Reverend (if I find the link I'll post it). That seems to be a different kind of situation.

On the other hand, Samuel Jordan AKA Sylvester Jourdaine seems to have French Huguenot connections, and so do the Basse's ....

Private User
2011年1月2日下午 5点57分

Finally finished Cecily's profile if anyone cares to have a look and add anything, particularly in the realm of argumentation.

Her grandfather seems unconnected to the rest of the Reynolds:

Christopher Reynolds, Sr.

Private User
2011年1月22日下午 3点34分

Cecily Reynolds

I have a few fun things tor report.

1. The profile is now a Geni Top 100.

2. We now have curators who never knew they were related to her able better able to explain their flirtatious ways to their husbands. :)

3. My current relationship: Cecily Farrar (Reynolds) is your fourth great uncle's fourth great grandmother.

2011年2月10日下午 4点24分

@Michael Lutley Jordan
I have been researching Samuel and Cicely for some years now and discovered that much of what is commonly stated about them is, at worst, misleading, at best, unsupported by any primary sources.
The extraordinary thing about Samuel is that, for such an important figure in the establishment of the Jamestown colony, there is so little extant information about him. After scouring eye-witness Jamestown resources, I have been able to find only about half a dozen primary source mentions of our "Ancient Planter". Upon closer examination, he seems just to melt away into the mists of time.
============================================
1.) No parish records that I know of have been found for Samuel's English origins, his parentage, his date of birth or baptism, his immediate family, his alleged first marriage, wife's name or English children. Radipole was the parish Church for Melcombe Regis until 1603, and I have been unable to discover if there are even any extant records for the period.
Why his 1st wife's name is said to be Frances is a mystery, as is the frequent suggestion that he was born in Wiltshire. In view of the name of his alleged daughter, Anne-Marie, was his wife perhaps "La Française" anglicised to Frances?
2. ) Even if we had primary source evidence for Samuel's Dorset origins, we would still have practically nothing to link this individual with the "Ancient Planter of Jordan's Journey". There is nothing to link his supposed sons with him except the geographical and chronological proximity. What then of William Jordan, Daniel Jordan and Peter Jordan of the Lists and Muster, or of Robert Jordan the Bridewell immigrant of 1619-20, surely not the same family? The Samuel Jordan of All Soul's College of 1623 is listed in the university records as s. of Thomas Jordan of Rutland, so cannot be that of Virginia.
3.) On the other hand, the List of the Living of 1623/24 and the Muster of 1624/25 (made a year and a half after Samuel's death) list both Mrs. Palmer and daughter and Mrs. Basse and [son] Samuel as living at Jordan's Journey after the Indian Massacre. We know from what appear to be extant marriage registers that these ladies were Joane Jordan and Anne Marie (aka Mary) Jordan. The presence of these ladies and their children at the home of Samuel Jordan's widow does strongly suggest a family relationship. Nathaniel Basse was a sea-captain who was frequently away on voyages ( and apparently so at the time of the Massacre). Palmer was a church minister. Cicely's marriage to Bailey and her motherhood of Temperance are deduced from their presence together on these lists (and the Bailey land patent) as there is no register of either. Mary Jordan (as opposed to Anne Marie aka Mary) aged 3 at the Muster, was born before Samuel's death, Margaret (aka Margery) aged 1, after his death, leaving no room for the hypothetical posthumous Richard.
4.) There is no record of Samuel's arrival in Virginia, except for the wording of his 1620 patent, which states that he had been resident for 10 complete years, and his wife Cicely for 9. In other words, he arrived (sometime) in 1610, not necessarily as a survivor of the Seaventure, and she in 1611. There is an error in the date of 1610 for the Blessing voyage with Cicely. (Where is the roster for the Swan to be found?)
5.) The signature on the account of the wreck of the Seaventure is clearly Sil (Silvester) and not Sel (Samuel). This could be the motive for the recent equivocal addition of Silas to the name of Samuel. And where is he ever called Captain? There is no mention of Samuel in either of the Seaventure accounts or among those who arrived from Bermuda. He could have come on any ship arriving in 1610. The only "evidence" is his association with William Peirce and John Rolfe, both relationships cemented indirectly by marriage ties in Virginia. Peirce's wife was a descendant of the Jordans of Melcombe Regis, which suggests a Dorset family relationship with Samuel, but this is unproven.
6.) Melcombe was extremely subject to outbreaks of plague, and its seafaring men commonly victims of shipwrecks (4 family members are attributed with the same burial date of 12 Oct. 1589, incl. Samuel's father), and I suspect that Cicely Reynolds early became an orphan and passed into the guardianship of her aunt Joan (Phippen) Peirce. When the Peirces left for Virginia in 1609, she would have remained behind with family (Phippens/ Pierces) to continue her education and attain her 10 years of age when she would be entitled to her own headrights. She would then have made the voyage in the company of friends ( Lady Gates, who did not survive the trip, has been suggested).
7.) As others have pointed out, the later marriages of Cicely after Farrer are highly suspect, probably arising out of confusion with another Cicely. Some estimates make her live over 100 years! The Hulet-Jordan marriage is another area of confusion, probably referring to another Mary Jordan.
8.) There is no record of Samuel's death, when where or how: the date is calculated, between the lines, from other evidence. Much as we would all like to believe in the descent of the two Thomas Jordans from Samuel, there is, so far, no substantial evidence for this genealogy and it remains in the realm of speculation.
9.) It is often said that Samuel descended from a French Huguenot line. If the Melcombe Regis/ Lyme Regis genealogy were in fact correct, then it would appear that this family moved temporarily to France in Elizabethan times, but returned to Melcombe by the end of the 16th c., well before the persecution of Huguenots reached its height resulting in the mass flight to England and elsewhere.
11.) Most of the Virginia Company's ships, I believe, set out from London, but picked up emigrants from ports in the South-west, principally Plymouth. It is an acknowledged linguistic fact that Virginian English still retains marked traces of 17th c. West Country English, attesting to the large numbers of immigrants from those parts.
12.) The Rev. Robert Jordan of the Connecticut is no immediate relative, coming from the quite separate Gloucestershire/ Worcestershire Jordan family. However, several daughters of Ignatius Jordan of Exeter, who could be related to Samuel, did end up there.

===============================================

I hope this clarifies a number of the points made above.

Private User
2011年2月11日上午 5点01分

Michael Jordan

Samuel Jordan does seem to melt away into the mists of time, indeed. I seem to recall a reference to an analysis of what "may have been his bones" but I'm not finding the citation.

I thank you very much for your research notes and wonder if you would be kind enough to provide a good attribution so I may attach it as a PDF file to his Profile Samuel Jordan, of Jordan's Journey and within the Project http://www.geni.com/projects/Ancient-Planters-Jordan-Family ?

I don't know if you've seen this fairly recent article:

http://progress-index.com/news/archeologist-reveals-treasures-of-jo...

Private User
2011年2月11日下午 4点41分

Michael Jordan....referring to your point #3 above.....Are you saying that Marie Anne Jordan aka Mary Jordan is the one that was married to Nathaniel Basse and that she is a child of Samuel Jordan?

2011年2月11日下午11点44分

@Michael Lutley Jordan
Kim,
What I'm saying is that Anne Marie (aka Mary) Jordan married Nathaniel Basse and that she could be the daughter of Samuel by a first marriage in England - if any of the stuff about Samuel in England could be proved, and that this is the same Samuel Jordan - especially as she and a child (?) were living at Jordan's Journey after the Indian Massacre. That is, of course, if she was not the Mary Jordan who married Lawrence Hulet!
OK?
Erica,
I'm still working on a "Truth about Samuel Jordan" text. It needs completion of the citations. I'm also working on a list of on-line Jamestown primary sources. I'll pass these on when completed.

Michael

2011年2月13日下午 2点37分

Erica,
What exactly do you mean by "provide a good attribution", do I have to send a PDF file or can it be a DOC file, and where and how should I send it?

Michael

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