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Possible Parent conflict for George Brewer Sr.

Started by Angus Wood-Salomon on Saturday, January 8, 2011

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Profiles Mentioned:

Showing 1-30 of 38 posts
1/8/2011 at 9:13 AM

George Brewer, Sr.

Here is a message from Sherry Houy to me
Angus -

I am writing about this profile (you are the curator):

George Brewer, Sr.

Do you have any documentation showing that George is the child of Elizabeth Rice and John Brewer? I have heard from another user who does not think they are his parents. She has found extensive documentation for 9 of the children shown, but George is not one of them. Additionally, since George was born in VA, and Elizabeth and John lived in MA, it really does not appear that they were his parents.

I would appreciate any help you can give me on this. Thanks!

1/8/2011 at 9:15 AM

William Chandler Lanier Jr.
Private User

I have locked down the profile and those around it until we sort it out.

1/8/2011 at 9:32 AM
1/8/2011 at 9:42 AM
1/8/2011 at 4:05 PM

Private User
William Chandler Lanier Jr.
Private User

Ok this is mostly directed to Ethel
According to the Tree George G. Brewer, Sr.
George Brewer, Sr.

Had two wives,
one Sarah Brewer (Lanier) (1686-1727)
Sarah Brewer

The other
Alice Burwell (1700-1744)
Alice Brewer

IS THIS CORRECT??

Sarah's children were
Oliver Brewer (1708-1792)
Oliver Brewer
Henry Brewer (1710-1799)
Henry Brewer
Thomas Nathaniel Brewer (1712-1804)
Thomas Brewer
Lanier Sr Brewer (1716-1795)
Lanier Brewer, Sr.
George G Brewer, Jr.(1718-1757)
George Brewer, Jr.
Nicholas Brewer (1720-1792)
Nicholas Brewer
John IV Brewer, IV (1724-1767)
John Brewer, IV
Joseph Brewer, I (1731-1732)
Joseph Brewer, I
William Brewer (1706-1799)
William Brewer
Sarah Brewer (1714-1789)

Ambrose Brewer (1724-d)
Ambrose Brewer
Nathan Brewer (1710-d)
Nathan Brewer
VEEDIES BREWER
NN Brewer
Howell Brewer (1722-1816)
Howell Brewer

Alice's Burwell's children are
Burwell Brewer, Sr. (1730-1799)
Burwell Brewer, Sr.
Boyce Brewer (1733-d)
Boyce Brewer

We need to verify this..

1/8/2011 at 4:20 PM

Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy, Vol. Curator
I just received this from Carole..Carole would you follow this discussion in here.
Angus and (Ethel see below)

I am contacting you as the curator of John Brewer's profile of which I am the main manager. HELP

I was contacted by one of the other manager's about the extra children listed for John and Elizabeth (Rice) Brewer, I myself had only entered John as the husband of Elizabeth Rice, but after doing some searching have found more information.

It seemed to me that there are two different John Brewers that have been merged together as the information that was listed on his about me section did not match the dates and places for the actual profile. (I have since added information and sources at the top of his about me section). It is also a possibilty that John Brewer III's father his also been miss merged.

Would you be able to help separate the two John's and children?

The original profile is for John Brewer b. in Cambridge, Nov. 8, 1642 who was the son Brewer, Capt. John, of Cambridge, Mass., (probably son of Joanna.) and his 1st wife Ann. Capt. John Brewer also married 2nd Mary Whitmore.
John Brewer (the profile referenced) b. Nov. 8 1642 married Elizabeth Rice and they had Children: 1. Lieutenant John, born September 29, 1669, married Mary Jones, settled in Watertown. 2. Elizabeth, born May 21, 1670. 3. Hannah, born March 22, 1672. 4. James, born September 10, 1675, deacon of Sudbury church; married, in 1703, Elizabeth Grout. 5. Sarah, born January 14, 1678. 6. Mary, born March 17, 1679-80. 7. Abigail, born April 5, 1682. 8. Martha, born March 5, 1685. 9. Jonathan, born June 21, 1689.

The other John as listed John Brewer III , son of John & Anne (Reed) Brewer , b. 1635/1640, Isle of Wight Co., VA; d. 1705/1718, Isle of Wight Co., VA. It is not known whom he married. He had children, 1. George Brewer , b. 1670, Isle of Wight , VA ; d. Jul 1744, Brunswick Co., VA. 2. Peter Brewer , b. ca. 1662, Isle of Wight , VA. 3. Horace Brewer , b. ca. 1668, Isle of Wight , VA. 4. William Brewer , b. 1681, Isle of Wight , VA. 5. James Brewer , b. 1683, Isle of Wight , VA. 6. Nicholas Brewer , b. ca. 1687, Isle of Wight , VA. 7. John Brewer , b. ca. 1689, Isle of Wight , VA ; d. 5 Jul 1735, Lancaster Co., VA. 8.Henry Brewer , b. ca. 1691, Isle of Wight , VA.

It is him and the children that need to be removed, probably another profile will need to be made for him to attach the children to. As you can see the information for one John lists him as being born in a different state and year.

I have posted a couple of sources with information on his profile that is correct, the other posted information that lists the other children did not match up with the dates and place that ours was listed on the actual profile, I did not delete it as it should be posted with a correct profile of John.

Thank you for any help you can give.

Ethel Johanna Myers
Ethel Johanna Myers
1/5/11 at 5:08 PM

Dear Carole,

I am contacting you about this profile: John Brewer, II

I am concerned about the proliferation of children who do not belong in the family of John Brewer III and Elizabeth Rice.

I agree on the following children: Lt John, Elizabeth, Hannah, James, Sarah, Mary, Abigail, Martha, and Jonathan.

I disagree on the following 7 names:

Horace Brewer
Lt George G. Brewer
Nicholas Brewer
Henry Brewer
Green Brewer
William Brewer
and Peter Brewer

I do not know where they belong, but
I have never seen them in any list of
children for this couple.

I hope you will consider changing these attachments.
Perhaps you can enlist the help of your curator.

Sincerely,

Ethel Johanna Myers
Transparent John Brewer, III

1/8/2011 at 6:21 PM

Thanks so much.

1/9/2011 at 3:17 PM

Ok here is what I figured out so far..So everyone please jump in

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Mass.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thomas * Brewer
Place of Burial: Hampton, Rockingham, New Hampshire
Birth: 1600
Roxbury, Suffolk, Massachusetts
Death: March 23, 1698 (98)
Hampton, Rockingham, New Hampshire
Current Location: Hampton, Rockingham, New Hampshire
Thomas Brewer

Wife
Elizabeth Graves
Place of Burial: Hampton, Rockingham, New Hampshire, USA
Birth: 1600
England, United Kingdom
Death: 1662 (62)
Hampton, Rockingham, New Hampshire, USA
Current Location: Hampton, Rockingham, New Hampshire, USA
Elizabeth Brewer

<<<<<<son>>>>>>
John (1626) Brewer, (Not the father of John Brewer III) Transparent
Place of Burial: ,,MA
Birth: May 10, 1626
Ipswitch, Essex, Massachusetts
Death: June 23, 1684 (58)
Ipswitch, Essex, Massachusetts
Current Location: ,,MA
Capt. John Brewer, I

<<<<<Wife>>>>>
Anna Hannah
Birth: 1622
,,,England
Death: 1647 (25)
Sudbury,,Massachusetts,USA

<<<<<2nd Wife>>>>>>
Ann Brewer (Skinner) Icn_world Icn_collaborator_both_14
Birth: circa 1620
Isle of Wight, Virginia, United States
Death: circa 1646 (26)
Sudbury, Middlesex, Massachusetts, USA

<<<<<<Daughter>>>>>>
Hannah Goble (Brewer)
Place of Burial: Lancaster, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States
Birth: June 18, 1645
Cambridge, Middlesex, Massachusetts
Death: September 11, 1697 (52)
Lancaster, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States
Current Location: Lancaster, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States
Hannah Goble

John (1621-1684) Brewer
Place of Burial: Sudbury,Middlesex,Massachusetts
Birth: circa 1621
of Engl
Death: June 23, 1684 (63)
Ipswich, Essex, MA, USA
Current Location: Sudbury,Middlesex,Massachusetts
Brewer

Wife of John (1621-1684) Brewer ???
Ann Brewer (Skinner)
Birth: circa 1620
Isle of Wight, Virginia, United States
Death: circa 1646 (26)
Sudbury, Middlesex, Massachusetts, USA
Ann Brewer (Skinner)

1) The original profile is for John Brewer b. in Cambridge, Nov. 8, 1642 ,who was the son Brewer, Capt. John, of Cambridge, Mass., (probably son of Joanna.) and his 1st wife Ann. Capt. John Brewer also married 2nd Mary Whitmore
John Brewer, III
Place of Burial: Isle of Wight, Virginia
Birth: October 10, 1642
Cambridge,Middlesex,Massachusetts,USA
Death: January 1, 1691 (48)
Framingham,Middlesex,Massachusetts,USA
Current Location: Isle of Wight, Virginia
John Brewer, II

Wife of John Brewer III
Elizabeth Rice Icn_world Icn_collaborator_both_14
Place of Burial: ,,MA
Birth: August 4, 1648
Sudbury, Middlesex, Massachusetts, United States
Death: February 25, 1739 (90)
Sudbury or Framingham, Middlesex, MA, USA
Current Location: ,,MA

2) John Brewer (the profile referenced) b. Nov. 8 1642 married Elizabeth Rice
John Brewer, II

Capt. John Brewer, I

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Virginia>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
John (1565) L. Brewer,
Place of Burial: Isle of Wight County, Virginia
Birth: 1565
London, England
Death: May 13, 1635 (70)
Isle of Wight County, Virginia
Current Location: Isle of Wight County, Virginia
John Brewer, I (VA)

Mary (1565-1634) Grove
Birth: 1565
London, Middlesex, , England
Death: 1634 (69)
, , Virginia, USA

Show

Daughter of Ralph Grove

John L Brewer
Place of Burial: Isle of Wight, Brunswick, Virginia
Birth: April 11, 1614
London, Middlesex, England
Death: June 23, 1669 (55)
Isle of Wight, Brunswick, Virginia
Current Location: Isle of Wight, Brunswick, Virginia
John L. Brewer II (of VA)

3)The other John as listed John Brewer III , son of John & Anne (Reed) Brewer , b. 1635/1640, Isle of Wight Co., VA; d. 1705/1718, Isle of Wight Co., VA

John L. Brewer II (of VA)

<<<<<<<<<<<Found Conflicts>>>>>>>>>>
John L Brewer in Virginia
Place of Burial: Isle of Wight, Brunswick, Virginia
Birth: April 11, 1614
London, Middlesex, England
Death: June 23, 1669 (55)
Isle of Wight, Brunswick, Virginia
Current Location: Isle of Wight, Brunswick, Virginia
John L. Brewer II (of VA)

Shows daughter in Mass.<<<<<<<removed>>>>>>>
Mary Brewer<<<<<Mass.>>>>
Birth: September 23, 1648
Ipswich, Essex, Massachusetts, USA
Death: February 23, 1724 (75)
Ipswich, Essex, Massachusetts, USA
Mary P. Chapman (Brewer)

Shows son in VA.
Thomas Brewer<<<<VA>>>>>
Birth: 1639
Isle of Wight, Virginia, United States
Death: February 21, 1698 (59)
Northumberland, Virginia, United States

Shows son<<<<<<<Mass.>>>>>
Daniel G . Goble,
Place of Burial: Basking Ridge, Somerset, New Jersey, United States
Birth: July 18, 1641
Charlston, Suffolk, Massachusetts, United States
Death: September 26, 1676 (35)
Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts, United States (Hanged for killing friendly Indians.)
Current Location: Basking Ridge, Somerset, New Jersey, United States
Thomas (Isle of Wight, VA) Brewer

Hannah Goble (Brewer)<<<<<<<Mass.>>>>
Place of Burial: Lancaster, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States
Birth: June 18, 1645
Cambridge, Middlesex, Massachusetts
Death: September 11, 1697 (52)
Lancaster, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States
Current Location: Lancaster, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States

Shows Wife in Mass.
Ann Brewer (Skinner) <<<<<<<<<<Mass.>>>>>>>>>>
Birth: circa 1620
Isle of Wight, Virginia, United States
Death: circa 1646 (26)
Sudbury, Middlesex, Massachusetts, USA
Ann Brewer (Skinner)

1/9/2011 at 4:26 PM

Cool, I thinkg the middle initials might help. Sarah Lanier 1686-1727 one of John James Lanier's two wives. Sarah married eith George G. Grewer, or George W. Brewer, Sr.. If the former, then perhps the connection to John Brewer and Elizabeth Rice is false.

1/12/2011 at 5:30 AM

Private User

Sherry any further information regarding this??

You wrote....
"I am writing about this profile (you are the curator):

George G. Brewer, Sr.

Do you have any documentation showing that George is the child of Elizabeth Rice and John Brewer? I have heard from another user who does not think they are his parents. She has found extensive documentation for 9 of the children shown, but George is not one of them. Additionally, since George was born in VA, and Elizabeth and John lived in MA, it really does not appear that they were his parents.

I would appreciate any help you can give me on this. Thanks!

Private User
1/12/2011 at 9:55 PM

I am almost completely certain that there were 2 John Brewers; one who settled in MA and the other in VA - and both of their fathers were also named John. Please first look at this site:

http://www.edmund-rice.org/era5gens/p6.htm#i1318

Scroll down to the 1st John, just after Joel. You will be able to jump around at will after that.

Then look at the revisions page for John Brewer III:
John Brewer, II...

It appears that there were 2 separate John Brewers (one the III, the other a Capt. and a II) until a short while ago.

I found many sites that confuse/merge the 2 separate John Brewers, so how the mistake was made is easily understood. The two men have quite similar information, too - same father's name, perhaps same mother's name, birth and death dates quite close. However, each lived in 2 separate states (colonies) that were not adjacent. Neither moved to the other state.

Anyway, Ethel is correct in identifying the children of John of MA; the others do not belong to John of MA and Elizabeth Rice. In addition, Elizabeth Rice did not marry John of VA.

As to the other children mentioned, Green has already been moved to his/her correct parents (thanks, Denise).

Ethel has entered extensive information about BOTH John Brewers on his combined page (thanks for all your work, Ethel) and the children of John VA are clearly shown:
John Brewer, II

I have also looked at various sources and found confirmation for most if not all of these. Here is one:
http://www.serenitygate.com/finan/fam00120.html
(I know site this doesn't cite sources, but it's just an example. Sources are amply cited in the About Me section of the combined John Brewer profile.)

I propose separating the 2 John Brewers again. The Edmund Rice copyrighted site only shows the father for John MA; the last site (just above) shows quite a lot of ancestors for John VA.

If no one has any objections, I will work on this next week - or sooner if I hear back from everyone.

1/12/2011 at 11:37 PM

Thanks Sherry I know it isn't good Genealogy but I had to show where each person was from.

Notice I entered Ma (Massachusets) and Va (Virginia next to there names..until we get it fixed I suggest we leave it like that, then remove that information..

1/12/2011 at 11:49 PM

Carole you said.
"The four parents connected to John Brewer who married Elizabeth Rice are not his correct parents, his would not of been in Virginia.

It maybe that his correct parents (John and Ann) were merged in and the information now is for the John Brewer who is parent to George, Henry, Peter, Horace, Nicholas and William.

Although these children's names are listed with both families they seem to match up with John and Elizabeth (Rice) Brewer"

Before we go any further according to this branch
http://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000006444139717

John was from VA and Elizabeth Rice was from MA.

Definitely incorrect marriage would you say?

1/13/2011 at 12:27 AM

Ok check this
Ann Brewer (Skinner)
born in VA died in MA is it possible she 'was' the wife of John Brewer (MA)
Capt. John Brewer, I

Private User
1/13/2011 at 1:05 PM

Elizabeth Rice was married to John Brewer of MA; she was not married to John Brewer of VA.

I have found 1 site
http://www.serenitygate.com/finan/fam00118.html
that says the parents of John (VA) were:

John Brewer
b. @1600, London; m. @ 1621, Middlesex, England; d. @1689, Brunswick County, VA
Anne (unknown)
b @1600, England

It also says that his wife was unknown.

John (1600)' parents were:
John Brewer
b. @1565, England, m. @1590, d. @1635, Middlesex, England
Margery Graves
b. @1565 Middlesex, England; also m. Thomas Butler

John (1565)'s father was Thomas Brewer

Just to further complicate things,
http://www.edmund-rice.org/era5gens/p6.htm#i1318

says that there were 2 John Brewers in Ipswich, MA at the same time.

This latter site has done extensive research. I found out about it through NEHGS, a site I trust completely. (Not that they can't have incorrect information, just that I know they require documentation.)

Private User
1/13/2011 at 1:08 PM

Angus -

I agree with you completely about showing where each person was from; it really helps. And I definitely like leaving the VA/MA on the profiles until we get this straightened out. Then curator notes and disambiguation notes should definitely be added to all relevant profiles (if you agree - you are their curator) :-) .

Private User
1/13/2011 at 1:42 PM

Just to chime in -- the Edmund Rice Family Association is excellent. I used it to source out the Rice family, and they are spot on every time I checked against original sources such as Savage.

Not the first time there's two with similar names / dates / places and yet a third in VA. The more disambiguation and detail, the better.

Private User
1/20/2011 at 7:00 AM

I'm going to start working on this again, hopefully this weekend. My doctor has limited the amount of time I can work on the computer so I haven't been able to devote as much time to Geni as I usually do.

Private User
1/20/2011 at 11:51 AM

Thank you, Sherry!

Just as a note on place name disambiguation. I am finding it very helpful -- and not too ugly! -- in the Suffix field.

So for example:

First Name: John
Middle: ll
Last: Brewer
Suffix: of Virginia

automatically generates a display name of:
John ll Brewer, of Virginia

which shows nicely in "tree" view.

I would also of course use "curator notes" that have a brief summary:

John ll Brewer, of VA (dates). Parents: xy & zz. Married 1, 3 children. Married 2: 4 children.

Something like that. :)

Private User
1/21/2011 at 4:26 AM

Great idea, Erica!

Private User
1/21/2011 at 5:43 AM

Trust me, I know the pain. I had THREE Parks / Parkes / Parke lines mixed up with each other, and very easy to understand why.

If they've gotten themselves mixed up again I really don't want to know. :) :)

Private User
1/21/2011 at 6:12 AM

I use location name like that a lot in suffixes if the source refers to the person in such a way, - and is the main reason why I went so hard out on you when you wanted a hard-coded pull-down menu for suffix and prefix ;-)

Private User
1/21/2011 at 6:21 AM

Ah I wasn't explaining properly. I meant that in add record view you have a few options only for the suffix, but in edit profile view you can do anything. To me this seems correct: the quick add record should give you suggestions (the most frequently used in English -- I can't speak to other languages of course). This is a good thing for a new user.

The more experienced user, working in profile view, "discovers" the editability, but by then they are (hopefully) familiar enough with geni to over ride sensibly.

The single worst and most frequent naming problem I run into is the use of "Sir" as a first name.

Private User
1/21/2011 at 6:22 AM

Yes of course I get it from sources. They used it for disambiguation all the time.

1/21/2011 at 10:40 AM

Sherry I would love to do any BULL work that will help decrease any amount of time you spend on the computer, just message me with URLs and instructions.

I will be driving to my daughter's early in the morning Saturday (6 hour drive) then I have some jobs in Toronto another hour away so I may be away from my computer most of the day.

I will be monitoring all my notification emails on my Blackberry

Private User
1/21/2011 at 11:11 AM

Erica, - your browser takes care of caching and showing as a pull-down menu of suffix values you have used before.

I am still sure that the pull-down menu you have when creating profiles is something they forgot to replace when they made suffix an open text field. For me it is rather annoying because I have to spend some time on re-edit the new profile instead of continue.

Private User
1/21/2011 at 11:31 AM

I always have to go into edit view anyway, it seems, so that's why I find it no particular burden. Plus when I'm entering new records there is no need for a suffix.

I don't really have a strong personal opinion, Bjorn. I'm trying to think of ways that the new user -- and apparently we have many daily -- would do the best job yet find the easiest.

Private User
1/23/2011 at 5:09 PM

Sorry, I had a small relapse and just got online for the first time this weekend. I have to get off in 20 minutes. (So not fair!) :-)

Angus, thanks for your kind offer. I had printed off a lot of information and am spending this "down time" organizing it.

My plan is to split off the children of John of VA and add him back. I will try to document sources whenever possible.

Thanks for being so patient.

Private User
1/24/2011 at 8:47 AM

OK, I think I have separated these 2 families. Here are the URLs for each John Brewer:

John Brewer II (of MA)
John Brewer, II

John (of V) Brewer III
John Brewer III (of VA)

I have made all of the affected profiles Master Profiles; they are not locked. (If anyone thinks they should be locked, at least for a while, please let me know.)

I would appreciate it if someone would look at these to make sure I didn't make any mistakes. If you find anything that needs correcting, or that should be added or deleted, please let me know.

I also found several possible matches for many of the affected profiles, but I did not try to merge any of them as they all led back to at least 1 profile that was a combination of the MA & VA Brewers. I just don't have the energy to fix all of them right now. If you merge any of them, or notice that any have been merged, please let me know, and I'll try to get to them fairly soon.

Thanks to everyone for all the information, research and help. You all made this much easier. :-)

1/24/2011 at 9:19 AM

Sherry where do you live??I am coming over there and to give you a BIG BIG hug, thank you.

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