THIERRY'S Persian Link

Started by Michael Sortomme on Saturday, January 15, 2011

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1/15/2011 at 7:47 PM

Comment made by Justin Swanstrom:

"Some scholars think he was connected in some way with the Jewish dynasty at Narbonne, perhaps identical with with Makhir, a Jewish prince who came from Iraq to serve as leader of the Jewish community at Narbonne. Zuckerman suggested Makhir was identical with Natronai ben Habibai, while others believe Makhir was more likely Natronai's younger brother. According to Zuckerman, he adopted the Frankish name Theuderic (Thierry) when he married into the Frankish royal family. In later romance he was called Aymery."

Reply by Michael Sortomme:
I believe this assertion to be correct, as far as Thierry's Persian roots. He is my grandfather, 29th & 30th. Iraqi Mizrahi is still the largest nationality represented in my mtDNA. I also have one of the rarest mtDNA Haplogroups in the world: H1g, represented by 3 groups of people: Ashkenazi-Druze of Lebanon, Saami from Norway, Coastal Islands of SW Japan. I represent 2 of 3, pre-350 years. Another win for genetic genealogy!
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1/15/2011 at 8:54 PM

Certainly worthy of investigation, particularly given what proving this assertion would suggest. Do you have the actual mtDNA report with interpretation? Also, do you have your tree fairly well mapped over that 31-32 generation period, enough so that other sources of the H1g can be ruled out, if the H1g is the indicator being used to identify Theirry's ethnicity? And also, what is the H1g tie to the Iraqi Jewish community? I didn't quite get that one from your description...

Lots of questions to answer in one sitting, but I think they would all serve toward giving a clearer victory to genetic genealogy...

1/15/2011 at 9:55 PM

As proof that Thierry was Persian, I offer my Iraqi Mizrahi mtDNA, which is the highest nationality reading in my personal genome and is verified through my full brother's DNA tests as well. We have kits at FTDNA and 23&me, for both maternal and paternal sides. Our family is unique in that we have many block-mutations, jump variants, insertions and deletions on both sides, making reading nationalities very difficult. We have consulted with 2 DNA companies and 2 additional freelance geneticists and yes, we have our complete genomes available for specific studies.

This reality does not necessarily suggest my Haplogroup, which is complicated and involves ancient gene patterns as well as brand new mutations. I have a very high level of Semitic/Arab blood that spans from Iraq to Morocco, including a rare Moroccan admixture which points directly to Lebanon. It was an interesting factoid that could be explained by the Ivanhoe Gene Cluster: Jewish Vikings of Britain.

1/16/2011 at 1:40 AM

The H1 Haplogroup, shared by both women and men, is one of the most common Haplogroups in Europe, shared by all ethnicities, as far as I understand, from Britain to the Middle East and everywhere in between. Many Jews have this Haplogroup, though it is NOT considered exclusively Jewish; few are. A point of reference: the Druze and Ashkenazi have one common "mother" ancestor, from the 2nd destruction of the Temple in 66-70CE.

1/16/2011 at 2:33 PM

I did not mean to infer that Thierry is my "only" Persian. Oh now, they are almost as prominent as my plentiful Vikings. IE: The Ivanhoe Gene Cluster & the 8 Ancient Kings of Trondheim. My family in Sør-Trøndelag still raises indigenous horses on the Tomme Plain of North central Norway, but I digress…
I chose Thierry’s profile to post my DNA comments because he is an interesting “link” to many Middle Eastern-European connections, including the Royal Lines of the continent. His children were mixed blood from several regions and peoples: Frank, Merovingian, Carolingian, Mizrahi, Farsi, Arabic, Ashkenazi--foundational ancestors for the bloody centuries of Crusades that followed. Relative after relative, cousin after cousin, grandfathers one by one, fell in the name of the Church of Rome, while other family lines where the Popes of Rome, themselves. His children, like me, where mixed nationalities, religions, regions: the reality of all European and Middle Eastern Royals of that time & of now.

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