@Warthen,Worthen,Wathen sur names

Started by Private User on Thursday, February 17, 2011

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  • Private User
    Geni member
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  • Private User
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Private User
2/17/2011 at 2:29 PM

I administer the above sur names for FTDNA and my name is Charles Robert Warthen and wish to find out more. please call 760 631 7164 or email me. Charlie

9/1/2011 at 7:06 PM

Hi Charlie,

I'm Bill WATHEN, of the Maryland line of the family. My direct ancestor from I believe the British Isles was John Barton WATHEN, who came to Maryland in 1670 as an indentured servant. Don't know how I can help, but I'll try.

Private User
9/2/2011 at 2:51 PM

Thanks for the message. Bill, do you know Robert Warthen, Dr J. David Warthen, Or Ed Dement (A Warthen by genetics), all live in Maryland and are active genealogists. They are also members of my surname group. For myself I only know for sure back to Alban Warthen(1788-!833), His brother Theodore Warthen (1780 - 1857) and their third brother Nicholas Warthen but we do not know for sure their parents. They are supposedly from Maryland. I have also heard that John Barton Wathen but no evidence, just conjecture. .

If you do not know the above Warthen's and would like to contact them, let me know and I will send you their email addresses

9/3/2011 at 7:59 AM

Hi again, Charlie,

Sad to report that I don't know any of the names you mentioned. As to John Barton WATHEN, he arrived at Port Tobacco, Maryland, in the fall of 1670 as an indentured servant to a Hugh THOMAS for a period of four years. Supposedly he was a carpenter by trade. On Sept 10, 1670, he boarded the ship "Francis and Mary, " out of Bristol, England, bound for the southern colonies and Barbados. After he worked off his bond by 1674, John was granted 50 acres of land as part of the indenture agreement and he eventually grew that to over 200 acres into a plantation he called "WATHEN's Adventure." He reportedly died in Maryland in 1705. For the past seven years I've been trying to find his roots on the other side of the pond, but so far, no luck. One story is that he was the son of John Barton WATHEN, I, who was the son of Sir Charles WATHEN, of Bristol, England. I've not been able to verify this, however. Some info has been verified by the Maryland State Archives in Annapolis, and from a book, "The WATHEN Antholgy," by Carolyn (WATHEN) Collins, of South Bend, Indiana. However, John Barton WATHEN the Second, being the son of John Barton the First, who was the son of Sir Charles WATHEN, is pure conjecture and guesswork on someone's part. Seems strange to me that a person with a g-father who was a titled gentleman, to be an indentured servant, somehow doesn't wash. In my research I've also found that the name WATHEN, has different spellings in the border counties of England and Wales as WAYTHEN, WEYTHEN. The name WATHEN is especially prevalent in Herefordshire, England. In 1642 (ca), a WATHEN family settled in Massachusetts. Over time the name locally became WARTHEN and/or WORTHEN. Then, there is the village of ROBESTON-WATHEN, in Pembrokeshire, Wales. If you go to the north and east in England to the county of Yorkshire, you'll find place names such as WATH-upon Dearne, a village on the River Dearne. I've been told that WATH is the root word of our surname and that it is Dane or Viking in origin. That's about all for now, please feel free to share this info with whoever you wish and also you can forward my email address to other researchers as well.

L8R,

bill

Private User
9/4/2011 at 9:12 AM

@Warthen,Worthen,Wathen surnames. Bill, I have the book by Carroll and I have communicated with her. I do appreciate the information. A FEW members that are active genealogist in our Warthen surname group and their emails, including mine.

Charles Robert Warthen- charlie@crwarthen.com
Barbara Wallace - Pass on her email later
John Merrill Warthen- saopaulo3@aol.com
J. David Warthen - dwarthen@verizon.net
Ben Warthen benwarthen@yahoo.com
Robert Warthen - warthenr@yahoo.com
Ed Dement - wiseconsulting.com

I live in California
Barbara lives in Texas
Merrill lives in Las Vegas
J. David lives in Maryland
Ben lives in Virginia
Robert lives in Maryland
Ed Dement lives in Maryland

Just in case you would like to contact them. There are 25 members of our group but these members are the most active.

Please feel free to contact me. My phone is 760-631-7164 Charlie

Private User
9/5/2011 at 8:10 AM

Thanks William for that information. I'm the Robert Warthen above. I had heard that same information through different forums also and my leanings are towards Sir Charles.

That would make OUR Charles Warthen a Sir Charles also. :)

I can trace my Warthen family up through a John Warthen in Frederick. It is there that folk lore says he went with Warthen instead of Wathen because of a religious split, but there is no confirmation on that.

I have a lot of things going on today, but wanted to join in on the conversation. Feel free to contact me anytime.

Sounds like what we REALLY need to do on the DNA project, though, is to get some descendants of Sir Charles to do some DNA. Most likely next year or two I plan on going back over to that area (was in Ireland last year) and do some research while I'm there.

9/6/2011 at 6:37 AM

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the note. There appears to be a lot of confusion about WATHEN/WARTHEN. I'm not convinced there was a Sir Charles. Carol Collins is of the belief that our John, however you choose to spell his last name, was from Herefordshire, in the Midlands. I just joined the Herefordshire FHS in an effort to do more research. For years I've been wanting to go over to the "mother" country t o do some of my own research, but health problems with my mom and dad have kept me pretty close to the hearth. Of particular interest to me is the possible split in the family over religious differences that you mentioned. For years, Carol and I have assumed that John Barton WATHEN was R.C. However, after doing some study of English history of the period, it appears that being a "Papist" during that time was not the best thing to be. It's possible that John was C of E and converted to Catholicism after his arrival in Maryland, most likely, if that's the case, that to "get along, you best go along." Again, mere conjecture on my part. DNA testing sounds like a viable option and I believe should be explored. There is also the oral folklore handed down from my g-father, William Lancaster WATHEN, son of Oscar George WATHEN (one time sheriff of St. Mary's County). William Lancaster claimed that the family was in Scotland before coming to Maryland. No verification on that angle so far. I don't know if I mentioned this before, but in addition to being a carpenter, John was also a wheelwright. Again research shows that in order to be a wheelwright, one must first become a master carpenter. A couple of glitches with John regarding these trades: John is not listed anywhere in the Worshipful Company of Carpenters as either a carpenter or as an apprentice. Also, the Worshipful Company of Wheelwrights was not established until 1670, the year John left for Maryland. Questions, questions, questions. So, while I'm waiting to hear from Heref. I'm also digging into the Nat'l Archives of Scotland. Also, must not forget Wales.

L8R,

bill

Private User
9/6/2011 at 2:15 PM

Bill, I f you are interested, Rob or I can start you on the FTDNA quest. It depends on your expectations. If you expect dozens of names to fill up your tree , it won't happen. It still requires paper, but DNA is an excellent way to prove leads, eliminate possibilities and occasionally find a a relative. Barbara was on the wrong track for years, DNA Showed her it was a false lead. To me this is as valuable as a positive lead. Ed Dement Found his Genetic Ancestry.
So you would be welcome to join us. If so let us know and we will gladly help. Go to FTDNA and type in your surname and check us out Weather you do or not please keep up the communication. Charlie

9/7/2011 at 11:57 AM

Hi Charlie,

Very interesting site and that very well may be where I'll be going soon, have it bookmarked. There is only one person that I'm actually interested in at this point and that is John Barton WATHEN, indentured servant to Hugh THOMAS, came to Maryland in October 1670 aboard "Francis and Mary," to serve a three year indenture to THOMAS. John was reported to be a carpenter and a wheelwright. The ship's passenger list shows that John was a carpenter, but there is no reference as to where he hailed from. I put of lot of stock in what Carol Collins has provided over the years as background on our family, and she is of the belief that John could have come from either Heref or one of the bordering counties in Wales. Research in Heref shows that any records of apprentices or masters in that county in the time frame that I'm searching indicates that those records are no longer available. So that leaves the Nat'l Archives of Wales and the Heref FHS for research, at least for now. Don't know if you've heard this story, but my late g-father, William Lancaster WATHEN reportedly told other family members that we originally came from Scotland. Just oral, nothing on paper to authenticate. Will have more L8R.

bill

Private User
9/11/2011 at 12:45 PM

Bill, if you find anything on Barton, We all will be interested to know. If you do go FTDNA , First Join our surname group (discounts) and since I am going to have new Cladograms made up Including a new member, Dan Warthen out of N.J., I will donate $100.00 Towards A Y-67 Marker test $228-my $100.00 leaves $128.00 for you. My pay off is to include you in the statistics and to have another member from MD. Rather blatant and forward of me, sorry, but I am trying very hard to advance our group along. I want to find our MRCA. If you are willing, give me your direct email. Charlie

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