This is the wrong prifile for Henry Freeman

Started by Michael on Monday, July 4, 2011

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Profiles Mentioned:

Showing all 29 posts
Michael
7/4/2011 at 7:20 PM

Anne M Berge merged the wrong profile and installed the WRONG Henry Freeman.
This is my original info before this BAD merge happened:
Henry Freeman
Birth 8 JUL 1669 in Elizabeth, NJ, USA
Death 10 OCT 1763 (94) in Woodbridge, NJ, USA
1695 Age: 25 Marriage to Anne Elizabeth Baignoux Bowne (1673-1763)
Woodbridge, NJ, USA

Spouse: Elizabeth Baigneaux (1673-1760) Married 1695
Children: Anne Elizabeth (1695-1763)
John (1700-1761)
Sarah (1702-1760)
Mary (1702-1784)
Rachel (1705-1763)
Hannah (1705-1763)
Samuel (1708-1778)
Joseph (1709-1797)
Hannah (1711-)
Benjamin (1713-1789)
Isaac (1715-1808)
Henry (1717-1784)
James (1719-1793)
Hester (1725-1754)
All characters before this Henry Freeman are based on unreliable info furnished by the corrupt genealogist, Gustave Anjou.

Private User
7/5/2011 at 11:26 AM

michael,
did you correct henry's profile?
or does anne have to do it? if we know it is wrong we need to get it changed.
cheers
jon

7/5/2011 at 6:55 PM

Your info is correct. I also descend from Henry Freeman via daughter Rachel.

7/29/2011 at 3:35 PM

Private User, do we need to do work to recreate/reconnect the other Henry Freeman (the Englishman)?

Michael
8/5/2011 at 12:34 PM

Hi Harald! I spoke with AM last weekend, while on holiday. No, please do not install another false English Freeman. That line was "invented" by Gustave Anjou, trying to tie the NJ Freemans to royal lines, like their family, the Jaques/Knights. The Freeman line from NJ (all four US Freeman lines connect in Middlesex NJ) dead-ends with Henry Sr. I have found an English registry from 1513 to 1890 (including Scotland and Wales), recording all "Gypsey and/or Traveller families". The document is 79 pages long. Google Romany names in Britain and the site comes up. The Freeman surname, led by the first names of Samuel, William and Mary, figure prominently, listed in one of 3 categories: "Gypsies passing through". I studied the document carefully and I surmised that "Gypsies passing through" insinuated familes that traveled the border lands of Wales and Scotland. That would indeed fit Mark's DNA test as a dominent Welsh ancestry for his Y-line. Mark leads the way in 67-marker matches on the Freeman surname project headed by Hope Freeman Carnicle at FTDNA. This Roma discovery could explain why the Freeman line deadends with Henry Sr. It was said that his father's name was Samuel, so it is lining up... Anyway, don't add any more Freemans to that part of the tree, PLEASE! I have no idea what Anne Marit was thinking when she added that bogus profile. She said something about creating a "place-holder" or something akin to that...

Michael
8/5/2011 at 12:40 PM

I don't know Jon, AM told me that profile "was not her job", so I suggest writing Justin or Angus. So frustrating getting that line cleaned-up from all the bogus Anjou lies. I get something posted and communicate with managers and by the next day, another inaccuarte profile pops-up. Some of these people are on the collaboration pool, making things even more vexing! Mark had 100,000 ancestors a couple of weeks ago, now has 102 from all the wrong and bogus lines and disconnections. VERY frustrating! If you can help out at all, Jon (and you have total access to our tree on ancestry for reference, public tree: Freeman-Humphrey), that would be awesome! Have so many melt-downs in so many areas, my head is spinning!!!!

8/7/2011 at 7:31 PM

Harald Tveit Alvestrand
I would gladly try and help out here.
Private User and Dave Savadge I would need your assistance unfortunately Michael is very busy so I will try and get Justin Swanström to help if needed

Private User
8/7/2011 at 8:18 PM

what do you need me to do

8/7/2011 at 8:25 PM

Jon do you have any sources of informaton to add to what Michael has shown it is also in the About Me

8/7/2011 at 8:34 PM

Using this Henry Freeman as the focus this is the Tree.

It shows he is married to
Anna Elizabeth Freeman (Baignoux)

and
Elizabeth Benue Browne (Bowne)
Elizabeth Benue Browne

8/7/2011 at 8:39 PM

This is in the About Me of
Elizabeth Benue Browne

U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900 about Henry Freeman Name: Henry Freeman Gender: Male Birth Place: En Birth Year: 1672 Spouse Name: Elizabeth Bonne Marriage Year: 1695 Marriage State: MI Number Pages: 1

******************************************************************
From Ancestry.com, The Moeser Family Tree: the spouse & children of Henry Freeman:

Spouse:

Elizabeth Bowne 1673 – 1760

Children:

Elizabeth Ann Freeman 1695 – 1799

Hannah Stout 1695 – 1763

Anne Elizabeth Freeman 1696 – 1763

John Freeman 1698 – 1761

Sarah Freeman 1702 – 1760

Mary Freeman 1702 – 1784

Rachel Freeman 1705 – 1763

Samuel Freeman 1708 – 1778

Joseph Freeman 1709 – 1797

Hannah Freeman 1711 – 1799

Benjamin Freeman 1713 – 1789

Isaac Freeman 1715 – 1808

Henry Freeman 1717 – 1784

James Freeman 1719 – 1793

******************************************************************************
Family Data Collection - Births

about Elizabeth Bowne Name: Elizabeth Bowne

Father: James Bowne

Mother: Lydia Holmes

Birth Date: 1673

City: Woodbridge

County: Middlesex

State: NJ

Country: USA

**********************************************************
-------------------- First Settlers of Piscataway and Woodbridge, pages 796-797

"Judge James Bowne and wife Mary Stout had at least 4 sons,.....and certainly two daughters, Elizabeth who married Henry Freeman....."

less

8/7/2011 at 8:40 PM

There is no 'About Me' of

8/7/2011 at 8:44 PM

This is what Michael Sortomme posted
==
This is my original info before this BAD merge happened:
Henry Freeman
Birth 8 JUL 1669 in Elizabeth, NJ, USA
Death 10 OCT 1763 (94) in Woodbridge, NJ, USA
1695 Age: 25 Marriage to Anne Elizabeth Baignoux Bowne (1673-1763)
Woodbridge, NJ, USA
==
and
==
Spouse: Elizabeth Baigneaux (1673-1760) Married 1695
==

Is her maiden name Baigneaux, Baignoux, Benue, Bowne or Browne?

Private User
8/8/2011 at 1:15 AM

Angus, the profile does not show any revisions and not even multiple managers which a merged and maintained profiles would show, so you are probably just looking on an untouched duplicate of the profile.

8/8/2011 at 7:24 AM

Thanks Brox, my concern is what would be the proper name for the person and also each profile has different parents.

parents are
Jean Baignoux
and
Jean Baignoux

whereas
Elizabeth Benue Browne
parents are
James Bowne
and
Lydia Bowne

Also Benue sounds very much like Baignoux and Baigneaux

Private User
8/8/2011 at 2:42 PM

several google searches have jean or john baignoux & elizabeth hall as parents of elizabeth benue
then elizabeth benue is shown without the browne. if michael sortomme is the lead on this i would and in the past, have left it to her. i don't at this point know where browne or bowne comes from. benue is a surname change that is believable for the times.

8/8/2011 at 8:14 PM

Michael
Hate to bother you but are you able to shed any light on this?

Michael
8/9/2011 at 10:17 AM

I have come across this confusion with parents often and women missing from one to 3 generations on the Freeman line, in a row. The same confusion exists in the Harris, Goodspeed, Parrum/Parham, MacArthur, McCarter, Ferguson, Allen, Clark, Judd lines and many more. Its Anjou's signature, of sorts. Baigneaux is my feeling, studying the New Jersey and Barnstable info. The Freemans are tightly connected to the Bowne Family (DNA and genealogically), at that time pronouced "Boon". I suggest that Bowne, Boohn, Boon and all variations of Daniel Bohne's family. Its not a stretch, but considering the family had strong holdings in the Cumberland Gap and are related to the orignial land dead holders of the Carolinas, its a possibility, to be sure....Hope this helps--back to work!

Michael
8/9/2011 at 10:19 AM

Should read: is a stretch...

8/9/2011 at 7:55 PM

The About Me of James Bowne shows

Ancestry.com: Family Data Collection: Individual Records

about James Bowne Name: James Bowne

Spouse: Lydia Holmes

****************************************
Parents: William Bound Bowne Ann
****************************************

Birth Place: Essex, Salem, MA

Birth Date: 25 Aug 1636

Death Place: Midlothian, Monmouth Co, NJ

Death Date: 3 Jan 1684

NOTE: Parents: William Bound Bowne Ann

I found this Tree
http://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000003615291003

Capt. William Bowne
and
Anne Bowne of Haverland

There is a conflict though
They have a son
Capt. John Bowne
married to
Lydia Mary Bowne (Holmes)

and another son
Judge James Bowne
who is married to
Mary Bowne

James Bowne again I ask your indulgence for a little of your time to look at this

8/9/2011 at 8:40 PM

oops..... Michael
again I ask your indulgence for a little of your time to look at this

8/9/2011 at 8:43 PM

Ben M. Angel
Hatte Anne Blejer
Private User

I think I am getting into some areas of your expertise, would appreciate any help you can offer..

Michael
8/9/2011 at 10:16 PM

I'll have to consult our tree on ancestry to get a good hit on this, Angus. I'll try to make time this coming weekend. Hope that helps...
Feel free to take a look. Its rough in places because not all the sources and info transferred.

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/25913764/family The Sortomme-Goodspeed Family Tree

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/25914303/family The Freeman-Humphrey Family Tree

Freemans are on both trees.

8/11/2011 at 8:44 AM

With the help of Private User

We found out
Mary Browne
Mary Holmes, daughter of Rev. Obadiah Holmes and Katherine Hyde, was born c.1628 in England and died c.1690 in Rhode Island. She married Capt. John BROWNE. Do not confuse with sister Lydia Mary who married John BOWNE (no "r").

and
Lydia Mary Bowne (Holmes)
Lydia Mary Holmes, daughter of Rev. Obadiah Holmes, was born in 1644 in Rhode Island and died 1693 in New Jersey. She married Capt. John BOWNE. DO NOT confuse with sister Mary who married Capt. John BROWNE (with "r").

Michael
8/12/2011 at 1:57 PM

This is great info, Maria, excellent! Explains why we genetically match with Bowne, Bohn, Boone, Brown, Browne. Did you post the source info on the profiles? Have a great weekend, y'all!

8/12/2011 at 2:56 PM

Michael

Michael we need some of your input

In this Tree
http://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000001400428201

Henry Freeman, Sr.
is married to

PERSONALLY I THINK THE ABOVE IS THE ANJOU CREATION

In this tree
http://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000008961057280

Henry Freeman, Sr.
is married to
Elizabeth Benue Browne
her father is shown as
James Bowne
(added by Michael)
her mother is shown as
Lydia Bowne
added by Robert D Meloche.

What we have found is Lydia Mary Bowne (Holmes)
is married to
Capt. John Bowne

and her sister
Mary Browne
is married to
Capt. John Browne, Sr.

Before we go forward we need some feedback here.

If Lydia Bowne

is same as
Lydia Mary Bowne (Holmes)

The only conflicts are the husbands..

Private User
8/12/2011 at 7:31 PM

Michael Sortomme -
I don't have primary sources, but this is where I got the data --
listing of children (see two girls, similar names, different dates - http://www.citereh.com/p10.htm#i430

Mary's link gives you
====
Mary Holmes was born in 1638 at Lancashire, England.2 She was the daughter of Rev. Obadiah Holmes and Katherine Hyde.1 Mary Holmes married John Brown.1 Mary Holmes died after 1690.1
Her married name was Brown.1
Family
John Brown b. 1634, d. c 1706
Child
John Brown3 b. 18 Mar 1682
Citations
[S1] Register Report - COOKE, online http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~sam/cooke.html
[S69] Created by GED2HTML v2.4a-UNREGISTERED (1/1/96) on Sun Jun 16 13:42:42 1996, online http://www.osmond.com/all-misc/genealogy/html/d0001/
[S154] The American Family of Rev. Obediah Holmes.
======

Lydia's link gives you
=========Lydia Holmes was the daughter of Rev. Obadiah Holmes and Katherine Hyde.1 Lydia Holmes died after 1693.
Lydia Holmes became the wife of Captain John Bowne and they finally settled at Middletown in New Jersey. One of their daughters, Sarah, married Richard Salter. Hannah, the daughter of Richard and Sarah Salter, became the wife of Mordecai Lincoln and the mother of his son John - "Virginia John" he is styled - who was the great-grandfather of Abraham Lincoln...2 Her married name was Bowne.
Family
Child
Sarah Bowne+ b. 27 Nov 1669, d. a 1714
Citations
[S1] Register Report - COOKE, online http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~sam/cooke.html
[S154] The American Family of Rev. Obediah Holmes.
======

Private User
8/12/2011 at 7:43 PM

Would a letter from Obadiah prove that Mary and Lydia are different people?

http://www.archive.org/stream/americanfamilyof00holm#page/52/mode/2up

The book, The American family of Rev. Obadiah Holmes by Col. J. T. Holmes, Published 1915 by [Stoneman press] in Columbus, O .

p. 53
Obadiah writes to his family and to Mary he writes: My daughter Mary: remember Mary, she chose the better part.
To Lydia, he writes: My daughter Lidiah, remember how Lidiah's heart was opened.

Private User
8/12/2011 at 7:53 PM

Same book I referenced above, on page 55, "Lydia became the wife of Captain John Bowne and they finally settled in Middletown in East Jersey."

On the next page, the book quotes a newspaper article written by a descendant in 1888. He wrote "Mary, daughter of Rev. Obadiah Holmes, married John Browne, born 1634, the son of Rev. Chad Browne."

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