Are Geni ‘s Goals Compatible - Or Incompatible?

Started by Private User on Tuesday, August 2, 2011

Participants:

Showing 61-90 of 155 posts
10/23/2011 at 5:21 AM

I'm thinking and acting just the other way around: had computer-crashes several times -with Ms-dDos, Window, etc, -in my professional business network and lost a lot of relations and because of that my financial base. So circumstances changed for I could not give them the service needed & had several people to work for me on a 'juridical lifelong' employment contract. And you have to pay your secretary every month in Holland, that's law, democracy & order. So I do NOT trust software, browsers and so on, but instead I hope that GENI has enough bankers & share-holders to be financial secure for a global organisation and is able to develop in time client-friendly & -trustworthy sales & AFTERsales... Groet'n van greet, uut the Netherlands, jMu.

10/23/2011 at 2:12 PM

I've had computers crashed on me, too. Thaat's why I have several backups in different locations. Yuu will never be 100% sure of how secure any online software will be, since you are not in control. While on my own PC's I'm in control. The possibility that our 4 computers in the household should crash at the same time is almost 0, and on top of that I have 2 backups in other parts of the country, so I'm feeling pretty safe. And my backups are of the whole database, all information included (pictures, documents, sound- and videofiles), which is a lot more than a gedcom file could do.

What would you do, Jeanette, if Geni went down and the only copy you have is a gedcom-file. Gedcoms are very bad as backups since they usually store less than half of the information that is on a persons profile, and it doesn't matter if your gedcom-backup comes an online or an offline source, since the gedcom file plainly isn't good enough as a backup-file.

Private User
10/23/2011 at 2:21 PM

I have to agree, it's our responsibility to back up our data. Geni provides the playground but I still have to take responsibility for my toys! lol

10/23/2011 at 2:45 PM

geni is not my business and I pay geni to be sure they take responsibility for my input during a year now already....

10/23/2011 at 3:05 PM

And for all you know, they can be bankrupt within a week. Well, it's you loss, I have taken my precautions, you have been warned.

10/23/2011 at 3:17 PM

europe is bankrupt earlier if germany and france don't take the good decision in a few days, so I would prefer to pay in Euro for my business future earlier than in dollars....
my precautions are different and not in a gedcom. hope geni-staff is prudent enough to give ALL geni-users worldwide share-holder possibilities by paying there contribution and make a REAL cooperation instead of a collaboration with collegues I did not choose but are beginning to like more each contact i work with them....

10/23/2011 at 3:22 PM

do you imagine what it costa for our environment if ALL geni-users have to save their geni-gedcom on several different places in the world? here in Holland we have fear for global warming, for our dykes were very expensive and strong, but in a lot of places in the world its very dangerous to use too much energie for reasons of joy or hobbies... The warmth all computers together gives to our stratophere are far more risico than for me to lose a one year salary in holland....

10/23/2011 at 3:35 PM

I welcome the warmth. I'm getting tired of winters with minus 20-30 degrees Celsius (minus 4 F to minus 22 F degrees for those of you that don't use the waters freezing and boiling temperatures as a measurement). Maybe I can have a winter without 1-1 1/2 meters (3-5 feet for those of you that don't use the metric system) of snow. So I would welcome more computers to make more warmt. :-)

10/23/2011 at 3:43 PM

it's not for idealistic reasons I talk about my reserves about people who have money enough to by several computers in one family and are skilled to preserve there toys. My next project I hoped to continue in geni is a possibility for African children searching for her lost parents in their recent wars in Congo etc. I'm a engineer myself, my husband is able to construct a bridge and my family is originaly a constructor DNA, so I do not need more warmth to stay warm in a coldish climate. Sun energy on my roof, earthwarmth to burn my waste, what do you want more to overcome a new tsuname?

Private User
10/23/2011 at 3:46 PM

I'll just feel better when the building boiler from the turn of the 20th century A.D. Hisses on.

10/23/2011 at 3:49 PM

Aahhh, powered by snakes.....hiss......hisssss

Private User
10/23/2011 at 3:59 PM

Well they do say New York is a zoo ... :)

Private User
10/23/2011 at 10:31 PM

Fay Baldwin -

1) I got carried away challenging criteria over who would be lead manager - now that I think a little -- realize I can't see any relevance of who is Primary manager to point I was making - either way, both sets of folks can see the Profile. Do you see it making a difference here, and if so, what? (there definitely are ways it makes a difference; just don't see them as applicable here)

2) you asked: "HOWEVER, how did the profiles get merged in the 1st place....that is the question" - The likely way is: Geni goes and suggests they are a match. A Pro in one of the families clicks on that little number indicating suspected match, believes they are the same and clicks accordingly, setting up pending merge. At time I wrote the scenario, once that had happened, anyone in the other family could click "Yes they are the same" and the merge would be a done deal. Now, it would have to be a Pro, but aside from that, the same scenario. Does not have to be either me or AAA. (aside: have had one instance of someone clicking "Yes, they are the same" when both Profiles had "Mary R.." husband of "Harry R..." - but mine also had siblings and children of Mary R.., his had none of either, mine had parents with her Maiden Name (not R...), his just had one parent, "unknown R...." - demonstrating that folks can be overly "helpful" in approving merges!!).

10/24/2011 at 5:18 AM

Lois...Thanks for the message...

1.) Essentially, the only difference I can see in who is the 1st listed manager is that they will get all merge requests and questions, while the person listed 2nd (or 3rd) will most likely be left alone to work without constant interruption (if its a busy area of the tree)....other than that, I see little benefit...whoever enters data has it in their own record as a contributor (also info known to Geni).....Just because I am listed 1st does not mean I brought the most to the table....and it becomes evident to Geni and everyone else the more you connect and collaborate who the people are that do the work.....

2.) This is a VERY good question....and one that has gotten a great boost with the new hover capability in Geni to get DATE info etc for each....but I have always opted to decline a match that wasn't spot on (in the belief that after someone put more data in...and I have even mailed the manager a request to add dates etc.....that it would eventually show up again where it is more correct)....

You may be talking to the wrong person, I tend to decline NO dates and UNKNOWN's no matter how good they are....but if I find a profile with unknowns...I am likely to delete them from that profile....(I'll return to that)

With no children or siblings I tend to go to the 'tree view' to see if there is a corresponding correct placement on the more complete tree..if it is not ther, I decline.

As to 'unknown' anything....I don't know about you pr anyone else..but I do NOT write on new reams of paper the word "BLANK" to let me know that there is nothing of note written on the piece of paper....noone needs to translate a symbol or word to understand that an open space is, by it very nature, a statement that "I do not have this data"....

Last I knew....a blank meant the same thing in any language....."this info is not known to me." ..

Back for a second to the problem of mis-merges.....I would like to point out that families have this tendency to use names over and over, in clusterss, sometimes for generations....or the name Mehitable (though new to you, does NOT mean it matches another famiy with the same name in it...it ACTUALLY means...BE MORE CAREFUL...cause once a family hits on a name they tend to go overboard with it for a while......

I have personally found all sorts of problems with merges (less now than in the past) BECAUSE of unusual names.....so that Ephraim or Cadwell that sounds like a clincher to someone looking to merge 2 profiles may actually be the current FAD in the family and its relatives.,...and be the piece of the puzzle that is CREATING the problem....

I dont know if I thanked you for getting back to me...you really have been impressive in your deductions and really are thinking quite logically....it took me a long time to get it through my head that it really doesnt matter whose name is first as a manager..even in my own direct trees...just that I was there and could imput and that MY contribution IS made note of in the roster of 'docs/photos/etc.....dont know if Geni has a way of tracking WHO enters about me's....they SHOULD..

And I do DE-LINK profies from trees (when asked and for good cause after checking to make sure that the attached person is not proper for the family) OR ask a curator to do so....

10/24/2011 at 5:48 AM

Remi...we in New England are just getting thru Fall (or Autumn)...and have all that cold and snow to look forward to....OR NOT (in my case)....I wish you hadn't reminded me...

Have been thinking of your statements from another discussion about keeping and storing genealogical data....and think you got a bad trouncing without justification...Norway is an old country, of the size (in area) of our California, and a population of 1/2 that of New York City....and the difference in prospective and history is what, I think, created the bad vibes sent your way....

I dont think that anyone is opposed to keeping and storing, or keeping and storing, genealogical information....and most US places have methods of doing so (whether by census', driver's licenses, town histories, social security indexes (tho only started in 1935...and I know a person whose family was informed that he was reported as deceased...which came as a surprise to them and HIM...and took months to resolve), newspaper archives, and any number of other ways of keeping track of people....

I think the only thing that COULD not work is a national LAW (watch peoples bristles raise at THAT word) REQUIRING people to keep or turn over what they have or already do (in whatever slap-dab way its done....was what irked people....

We here are truly a 'melting pot' country....and do NOT have the luxury of being so steeped in a common heritage, religion, or even famiy structure....as a lot of other countries (much older and smaller).....but with as rich a heritage that people and culture from centuries ago still manage to tickle our fancies....just look at the Vikings,Thor, Eric the Red, etc....

As to storing what I have, myself, contributed to the tree (the BIG or small section)....if it is available to those who I collaborate (and I have relatives and non-relatives all over the world) with...then I hope that Geni also has multiple storage sites of back-up data.....in other words, in more than 1 location....then my part wont get lost, no matter whether there is a storm or earthquake or whatever...

Sorry everyone for this little off topic bit...it's been bothering me...and, tho I did not take part in the discussion of which I speak..I WAS following it...and should have said something at the time...

10/24/2011 at 6:02 AM

Remi, you only get 5 feet of snow per winter? Pfft. ;)

Fay, reputable Internet-based companies always have multiple back-ups. If you remember back to the crash we had, Geni was back up within a few days and without meaningful data loss. But, Remi is correct -- you should be backing everything up anyway.

10/24/2011 at 9:54 AM

Paper my dear....but every document/ photo/and bit of 'about me' is copied to an individual profile packet of info....so what I have searched for and found is all in one place for that person...

Bulky I know...but all can be recreated from each packet and anywhere....and all the info was obtainable somewhere....it just is all in one place now...

All I need is a compiler...since I create more than I can sort..but working on that too.

10/24/2011 at 9:57 AM

I meant having a digital backup. :) It takes a few seconds and never hurts to do. I think most of us keep backups of both formats. If you or any other users haven't discovered it yet, http://www.geni.com/gedcom/ is the place to go.

10/24/2011 at 1:49 PM

do you imagine what it costa for our environment if ALL geni-users have to print their geni-gedcom —day-ly~weekly~monthly~or~yearly? what is your rate?— on paper and build library shelves to keep them just for the moment a earthquake or tsuname is in our neighbourhood. At that very moment I rather save my soul than my papers..... Good for contingents like South America, that's true, a lot of working people in the Amazone-area to get that wood quit quickly out of the tropical areas and what you get back is really nice to sandsurf.... Not to mention what it brings to trade people coming with boats and planes to handle these affairs.

Here in Holland -the name comes from 'Houtland' HOUT = WOOD, we wear wooden socks, you know--- have fear for global stapling duplicate papers in to many libraries, for that makes a lot of engine when firing. And that administration has to be paid with our tax-wages. We know that once a forest is away, especially a tropical environmental system with complicated ecological interactions between rich soils, bacteria, plants, insects, birds and other species, like mankind, it doesn't come back in ages. The hungry of North and Central Africa has partly to do with this kind of complex problems between politics, agricultaral administration and to few shelter for children in the sun without water....

And that was just MY REASON to contribute ALL my own information I gathered in so many years ONCE and for ALL on www.geni.com. HOPE really the share-holders will share theire responsability for mankind with ALL of us, for I don't print -never, don't even have one here around, only in superb circumstance i use one- geni-output and have FAITH in future without OIL drilling from deeply -TEXAS, Russia, Tunesia, Libye, where do they earn nowadays there income to drink enough cristal-clear sweet bubbling and sparkling drinking-waters? Why do you think I studied science-communication at the best-know Agricultural University of Europe? And i got a diplome too, that's why my nickname is ir. since 1979, which means Agricultural Engineer, with special focus on marine Fisheries and medical Parasitology in tropic areas --Malaria-- And after so many years of writing and printing about it, it's my idea it's time no longer not only talk about these kind of issues, but also to encourage NOT to write nonsence about it: I'm a pubisher to spread knowledge that is in our brains and genetics for ages already, but we seem to forget to listen what our parents already felt. But maybe it's better to tell-o-sing each other oral-vocally than to print these stories and to put them in libraries for some new ages…

groeten, hope not too many failures in a non-native language, jeannette.

Private User
10/24/2011 at 4:55 PM

Fay -

I will attempt to respond to: http://www.geni.com/discussions/98590?msg=749388

1) I think it can make a big difference who is Primary Manager, but not for the purposes of this topic, so will try to avoid belaboring the point here.

2) I think you are picturing Public Profiles. I am talking about Private Profiles. Given a comparison of your Profile to a Private one managed by someone outside your Family - one currently (often?/always?) does not see anything but a note allowing you to contact the Manager - so Hover Cards (which I find very annoying, but that is again off-topic here) do not come into play here.

Out of curiousity, you say "I have always opted to decline a match that wasn't spot on " - do you mean by this clicking on "No, not the same" or clicking on "I will decide later"? (As a Basic, currently I cannot do either, of course).

In any case, ANY MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY (who is Pro) has just as much ability as you to accept the Merge.

In Tree View - everybody sees those little blue circles with plus sign in them indicating pending merge and everybody sees those numbers in white circles indicating Geni has suggested matches - any Pro in Family can act on them; plus all can go to merge center and look for matches for Family Members, etc..

So what you would do may very well not be the deciding factor at all.

Private User
10/24/2011 at 5:12 PM

Ashley - Back-ups is off-topic, but need to respond re:Gedcoms - Beware -- they do not back up Photos, Documents, nor any of the Manually Entered events in a Timeline.

Private User
10/24/2011 at 5:46 PM

OOPS - Fay - looks like in Comparisons, they are back to letting us see info except where it is to a Claimed Profile who has not approved it yet - at least, for those I just checked, that was now the case. Do not know if any of the Managers had chosen to Not Let the Public Search for Them (That was one of the things that made a difference, I think). So modifies a bit my comment above, first paragraph of "2)" .

Private User
10/24/2011 at 5:53 PM

I am prepared to risk Lois saying this is off-topic. Someone can start a new topic if they want.

What would we all do if Geni.com disappeared tomorrow without trace? Now I know and accept the Geni.com has x number of backups, etc. etc. And yes we saw the amazing recovery from the big crash etc. etc. But disaster recovery planning is all about what to do in case of unforeseen disaster.

So here's my scenario. Geni.com disappears without trace. We can't access its back-ups, etc.

What do we the users do?

How would we piece together our Gedcoms? Our photos? Our documents? Our timelines? Our projects? Our discussions? Our privacy? Would we form a collective to create new data centres? How would we access Fay's packets of paper?

How would we even communicate with each other? How many of us have each other's outside-Geni email addresses or phone numbers?

Where would we even congregate to start a recovery? Facebook? LinkedIn? Would we be able to organise ourselves to "buy out" the assets if that were a possibility to get us back up?

Any thoughts? What's our plan guys?

10/24/2011 at 6:08 PM

Most of what you said, David, I have allready taken care of for my own data.

I don't need a gedcom from Geni since the information I have put on Geni comes from a small part of my offline database. The same goes for my photos, documents, timelines and all the information i the About me sections that I have written.

Projects, discussions and communications will happen on other genealogical forums that we participate on and in the societies we are members of, where also a lot of the congregation would take place, though in a smaller scale.

What about you, David, are you working out of your own offline data or are you also relying on backups from Geni?

Private User
10/24/2011 at 6:11 PM

I love your Question, David. Definitely think it deserves consideration. My feeling is it deserves its own topic - do you or anyone else have good idea for Title? I want as many folks as possible to be able to notice it. A title that will properly grab folks attention and be self-explanatory is not popping into my head.

Private User
10/24/2011 at 6:22 PM

Good questions, David, and worth the time to investigate answers as a community.

On a personal level, I keep digital copies of everything I upload. GEDCOMS, scans, Word files, Notepad files. On the principle that my welfare is more important to me than to anyone else, I believe it's my responsibility to safeguard the important parts of my life. Just as I keep digital copies of my bank statements because, regardless of how careful my bank may be or how much faith I have in them, if it's important to me then I need to ensure its safety. No matter how many backups they have, we've all heard of viruses wiping out databanks of huge, trusted, megacorporations. Could a natural disaster wipe out Geni's safeguards?

I don't believe that I pay Geni to keep my data safe. I pay them in order to be able to use their tools. There's no contract with them ensuring that they'll steward my data for any length of time, much less "forever". If there were, there would certainly be no free memberships - and basic memberships would cost several orders of magnitude more than pros pay now!

Having said all of that, I wouldn't have the faintest clue how to join up with other Geni users outside of Geni. That's something that just never occurred to me and I'm really glad you brought it up!

Private User
10/24/2011 at 6:23 PM

Lois, something along the lines of, "A Geni crash - What if the worst happens?" I dunno... ;-)

Private User
10/24/2011 at 6:52 PM

Remi - I will readily admit that my own backups are not fully adequate to cover the scenario I described.

Perhaps based on what you said you have, you would emerge as one of the natural leaders of a post Geni start-up?

Not all of us are on other genealogical forums. I for one am not. Nor am I a genealogical society member. But yes - when I said:

"Where would we even congregate to start a recovery? Facebook? LinkedIn?"

I should have added:

"Ancestry? My Heritage? [etc.] Through our local genealogical societies?"

Remi - would you consider all existing project work to be "written off" / irrecoverable in my scenario? Or would you be able to recover from your backups which profiles and documents were in which Geni projects? And project descriptions and catalogues? Or are they not important to you - because you have already structured things as you want them offline?

Private User
10/24/2011 at 7:04 PM

Somebody has probably already said this, but I reckon there are two models of serious Geni user here, with a continuum on the spectrum in between. The two extremes are:

1. Those who probably had serious genealogical systems before they came to Geni and have then added to Geni, as Remi said, only a subset of what they have offline. Remi is of course in this camp. These people may think they have everything offline and there's nothing of interest to them on Geni that they don't have themselves. I wonder if this is necessarily the case - given the collaborative nature of Geni there may be things others have added to Geni - photos etc. - that they don't have offline.

2. Those who believe that what is on Geni that interests them far exceeds what they input and have offline themselves. For these people, it's either a running battle to keep their offline systems up-to-date with all the exciting things that others put on Geni, or they give up and don't fully back-up, or only back-up half-heartedly with occasional Gedcom exports. These people may know that if they lost Geni they would be in a big mess. They may not have the time or resources or know-how to resolve the gaps. Or they may think the risk of Geni disappearing is too low to concern them. Or they may simply not have thought things through fully. -jMu- can speak for herself, but I think from reading her posts she is in this camp of relying on Geni.

10/24/2011 at 7:17 PM

Historical Societies, LDS familysearch centers, State Libraries.....but definately a good question....I have the e-mail of a very few people...who I expect have the e-mail's of a few, etc.....slow, and clunky, but all in all, a good question....

What if there were a major power crash.....letters??

Showing 61-90 of 155 posts

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