Amaudra (Carolingian daughter of Charlemagne & Himiltrude) (768 - d.) MP

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Nicknames: "Aupais?", "Alpais?"
Death: (Date and location unknown)
Managed by: Ofir Friedman
Last Updated:

About Amaudra (Carolingian daughter of Charlemagne & Himiltrude)

Amaudra, possible daughter of Charlemagne & Himiltrude

Himiltrude’s 2 children:

1Amaudru http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne Note: Charles Cawley’s MedLands has no record of this daughter

2Pippin the Hunchback (ca. 769–811)

Please see Charlemagne Project for Source Details

From Wikipaedia: Charlemagne's first relationship was with Himiltrude. The nature of this relationship is variously described as concubinage, a legal marriage, or a Friedelehe.[35] (Charlemagne put her aside when he married Desiderata.) The union with Himiltrude produced two children: - Amaudru, a daughter, and Pippin the Hunchback (ca. 769–811) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne

[http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Project_Charlemagne]

Charlemagne's children with Himiltrude (regarded by some as legally married)

Pippin the Hunchback (c769-811); no recorded children Little disagreement about him.

Amaudru (c770); three recorded children; and later generations Not mentioned by several researchers, including Medieval Lands. Some say she may be confused with a niece or another daughter. Medieval Lands lists a daughter (by an unnamed mistress "2") "CHROTHAIS [Rotaïde] ([784]-after 800, maybe after 814)" then refers to her as "Ruodhaidem"; but despite the name and birth date similarity that site shows her as distinct from Madelgard's daughter. Reference to her mother on Die Genealogie der Franken und Frankreichs, noted by Wikipedia, says she later married a Count of Paris.

http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Amaudru_(c770-) Amaudru Carolingian was born on an unknown date to Charlemagne (747-814) and Himiltrude (c742-c780) . Amaudru married Begon de Paris .

Children of Amaudru and Begon de Paris (c757-816) Landrade de Paris (?-?)


Leuthard II de Paris (806-858)


Eberhard de Paris (c808-c865)

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The Problem of Count Begue & his 3 possible wives

Count Begue/Beggo/ Begon has 2 (or 3) equally likely wives according to original sources – but sharing descendents Luithard, Eberhard, Susanna:

Either his wife (and mother of these 3 kids) was Charlemagne’s daughter:

1) Alpaida (by Adaltrude), or

2) Amaudra (by Himiltrude) - less convincingly sourced than the other two, at the moment ,

or she was Charlemagne’s granddaughter:

3) Alpais (through his son, Louis I)

Sources: From Charles Cawley's Medieval Lands database From Charles Cawley's Medieval Lands database

[BEGO ([755/60]-28 Oct 816). The primary source which establishes that Bego was the son of Gerard has not so far been identified. Marquis de Septimanie: Bego governed the county of Toulouse as "marchio" for Septimania from 806. He was chambrier, equivalent to viceroy, for Louis King of Aquitaine (son of Emperor Charlemagne)[65]. Comte de Paris in [815], succeeding comte Stephanus. He founded the Abbey of Saint-Maur-des-Fossés near Paris. The necrology of the abbey of Saint-Germain-des-Prés records the death "V Kal Nov" of "Begoni comitis"[66].

[m firstly ---. There is no proof of this possible first marriage of Bego. However, as noted below, if his wife Alpais was the daughter of Emperor Louis, there would have been a considerable age difference between her and Bego, which suggests the possibility of an earlier marriage.]

m [secondly] ([806]) ALPAIS, illegitimate daughter of [Emperor LOUIS I & his mistress ---] ([793/94]-23 Jul 852 or after, bur [Reims]). Flodoard refers to "Ludowicus Alpheidi filie sue uxori Begonis comitis"[67]. The Annales Hildesheimenses name "filiam imperatoris…Elpheid" as the wife of "Bicgo de amici regis" when recording the death of her husband[68]. Settipani discusses the debate about the paternity of Alpais, preferring the theory that Emperor Charles I was her father[69]. If Emperor Louis was her father, it is unlikely that she was born before [793/94], given his known birth date in 778. It would therefore be chronologically tight for her to have had [three] children by her husband before his death in 816. [Sharon’s Note: Not really – it makes her 23yrs old when he dies. Charlemagne’s wife Hildegard had had 9 children by the time she died at 23 or 24yrs] However, no indication has been found in primary sources of the ages of these children when their father died. The question of her paternity is obviously not beyond doubt, but it is felt preferable to show her as the probable daughter of Emperor Louis in view of the clear statement in Flodoard. If Alpais was the daughter of Emperor Louis, it is likely that she was not her husband's only wife in view of his estimated birth date. After her husband died, she became abbess of Saint-Pierre-le-Bas at Reims in [817]. She was still there 29 May 852.

Bego & his [second] wife had three children:

i) LIUTHARD . Flodoard names "ipsius Alpheidis vel filiorum eius Letardi et Ebrardi" when recording their mother's donation to the church of Reims[70].

ii) EBERHARD . Flodoard names "ipsius Alpheidis vel filiorum eius Letardi et Ebrardi" when recording their mother's donation to the church of Reims[71].

iii) SUSANNA ([805/10]-). The primary source which establishes that Susanna was the daughter of Bego has not so far been identified. "Vulfardus" donated property to Saint-Benoît-sur-Loire for the souls of "genitoris mei Vulfardi et genetrice mea Susannane necnon et germanorum fratrum meorum Adelardo, Vulgrino, Ymo et sorore mee Hildeburga vel nepote meo Vulgrino" by charter dated 2 Nov 889[72]. m ([825/30]) VULFHARD, son of ---.

STATUS OF DEBATE by Curators Justin, Pam, Ben, Sharon (DISCUSSION INVITED) - Jan 2011: The 10th Century chronicler, Flodoard is a primary source, while both Cawley and Settipani are secondary sources - presenting conflicting conclusions. Settipani (arguing for Charlemagne's daughter), contradicts Flodoard (arguing for Louis' daughter), based on consideration of other primary sources (which we haven't found). Cawley appears to be most likely to dominate because, although Settipani's conclusions are possibly more accurate, Cawley is more available to Geni users on the net.

MY (Sharon) STRATEGIC SOLUTION HAS BEEN TO INSERT BEGUE in ALL 3 POSITIONS, & TRY TO USE THE CURATOR NOTE TO AVOID MERGES BETWEEN THEM.