Ermengarde de Provence

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Ermengarde de Provence

Also Known As: "Ermengarda"
Birthdate:
Birthplace: Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Midi-Pyrénées, France
Death: Died in What is the source of this death date?
Immediate Family:

Wife of Rotbald II, comte de Provence
Mother of Hugh av Provance

Managed by: Private User
Last Updated:

About Ermengarde de Provence

According to the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, the origins of this wife of Rotbald II are unknown; there is no indication in this most trusted source that she was the daughter of Boson I de la Marche (or that Boson had a daughter with this name), so if this parentage is still linked it is probably not correct.

Although records indicate a wife of Rotbald II named Ermengarde followed by Emilde followed by Ermengarde, some scholars believe that all of these references refer to one wife. Moreover, Szabolcs de Vajay suggests that she was Emilde de Gévaudan, daughter of Etienne Vicomte de Gévaudan & his first wife Anne; Europäische Stammtafeln identifies her as Ermengarde (-25 or 27 Aug after 1057), who married secondly ([24 Apr/28 Jul] 1011) as his second wife, Rudolf III King of Burgundy.

Follows is the full bio of Rotbald II, Count of Provence, from the FMG: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/PROVENCE.htm

ROTBALD [II] (-[1008/22 Apr 1015]). "Boso comes et uxor sua Constantia…illorum filii…Willelmus comes, Rotbaldus comes, Pontius juvenis" signed the charter dated May [963] under which "Gencius et uxor mea Aiburga" donated property "in pago Aquense superiore ad castrum…Ansoyse" to Monmajour[211]. The order of birth of the two sons of Boson is unclear. The May [963] charter suggests that Guillaume was his older son. However, Guillaume is omitted from the charter dated Mar 965 under which "eius filio Rothboldo et fratre eius Wilelmo comite" consented to the charter of "Bosoni comitis, filii Rothboldi quondam"[212], which suggests that Rotbald was older. Comte de Provence, charters showing that both he and his younger brother Guillaume were recorded as counts during the same period, although it is not known whether this was a joint countship or whether there was a geographical split between their jurisdictions. "Rotbaldus comes" consented to the donation by "Wilelmus comes Provincie et coniunx mea Arsinna" to Saint-Victor de Marseille by charter dated Apr 970[213]. "Willelmus comes" donated property to Cluny by charter dated 28 Aug [990] signed by "Rodbaldus comes, Adalaix comitissa, Wilelmus comes et filius eius Wilelmus"[214]. "Dominus princeps et marchio istius provinciæ…Willelmus cum coniuge sua…Adelaix et filio suo…Willelmo" restored property to the abbey of Saint-Césaire d´Arles by charter dated 992, subscribed by "Domnus Rotbaldus comes…Willelmus comes filius Rotbaldi et uxor sua Lucia, Wilelmus comes Tolosanus et uxor sua Ema…"[215]. "Rotbaldus marchio et conjux mea…Eimildis" donated "castrum…Podium Odolinum" to Cluny by charter dated to [993/1002] signed by "Rotbaldus comes et uxor sua Eimildis, Adalax comitissa et filius suus Willelmus…"[216]. "Rotbaldus comes et coniux mea Ermengarda" donated "villam…Pertusus…in regno Provinciæ in pago Aquense" to Monmajour by charter dated 1002, signed by "Rotbaldus comes et uxor sua Ermengarda…Willelmus nepos suus…Adalax comitissa"[217]. "Pontius…Massiliensis ecclesie pontifex" issued a charter dated 1005 with the consent of "domni Rodhbaldi comitis et domne Adalaizis comitisse, domnique Guillelmi comitis filii eius"[218]. m [firstly] (before [975/80]) ERMENGARDE, daughter of ---. Her marriage is confirmed by the charter dated 22 Apr 1015 under which her daughter "Ema comitissa filia Rotboldi comitis et Hermengardæ uxoris eius, matris meæ" donated property "ex hereditate…in comitatu Forojuliensi in castro…Favart" to the priory of Courrenz (in Provence)[219]. [m secondly EMILDE, daughter of --- (-after [993/1002]). "Rotbaldus marchio et conjux mea…Eimildis" donated "castrum…Podium Odolinum" to Cluny by charter dated to [993/1002] signed by "Rotbaldus comes et uxor sua Eimildis, Adalax comitissa et filius suus Willelmus…"[220]. According to Manteyer, Comte Rotbald [II] married once and "Emilde" and "Ermengarde" refer to the same person. The later references to Ermengarde (shown below as a possible third wife) suggest that this may be correct. However, the roots of the two names appear different, which suggests that they were two different persons. If that is right, the charter dated to [993/1002] shows that Emilde must have been Rotbald´s second wife, assuming that the birth date of his daughter Emma is correctly estimated as shown below. Her origin is unknown. Szabolcs de Vajay suggests[221] that she was Emilde de Gévaudan, daughter of Etienne Vicomte de Gévaudan & his first wife Anne ---.] [m thirdly ([1002] or before) ERMENGARDE, daughter of ---. "Rotbaldus comes et coniux mea Ermengarda" donated "villam…Pertusus…in regno Provinciæ in pago Aquense" to Monmajour by charter dated 1002, signed by "Rotbaldus comes et uxor sua Ermengarda…Willelmus nepos suus…Adalax comitissa"[222]. "Rotbaldus comes et coniunx mea Ermengarda" signed a charter dated [1002][223]. "Ermengardi uxor Rodbaldi comitis" was among the subscribers of the charter dated 1005 of "Pontius…Massiliensis ecclesie pontifex"[224]. Europäische Stammtafeln[225] identifies her as Ermengarde, daughter of --- (-25 or 27 Aug after 1057), who married secondly ([24 Apr/28 Jul] 1011) as his second wife, Rudolf III King of Burgundy. Presumably this is based on the charter dated 1019 which is signed by "Ermengarda regina et filii mei Ugo et Willelmus"[226], assuming that "Willelmus" was the same person as Guillaume [V] Comte de Provence, son of Comte Rotbald [II], who is shown below. However, this co-identity is far from satisfactory. There are two main problems. Firstly, the sons are ordered "Ugo et Willelmus" in the 1019 document, which suggests that Hugues was the older son. However, no reference has been found to Comte Guillaume [V] having an older brother named Hugues, which in any case is not a name which is found in the family of the comtes de Provence. Secondly, Comte Guillaume [V] is named with his wife in a charter dated 992 which, if correctly dated, shows that he could not have been born much later than [975]. If that is correct, his mother would have been too old in 1011 to have married King Rudolf III, who was presumably hoping for an heir as he was childless by his first marriage. Europäische Stammtafeln appears to find a way around these difficulties by stating that Ermengarde was the wife of "Rotbald [III]" who, it says, was the son of Comte Rotbald [II][227]. However, no primary source has been found which confirms that this Rotbald [III] ever existed. In addition, the 1002 charter quoted above confirms that Guillaume son of Adelais (identified as Guillaume [III] Comte de Provence), was nepos of Ermengarde´s husband, which would be correct if Guillaume´s father and Ermengarde´s husband were brothers as shown in the reconstruction in the present document, although it is recognised that the word nepos is used flexibly in contemporary documentation. If it is not correct that Rotbald [II]´s supposed third wife married King Rudolf, the possibility remains that Comte Rotbald [II] in fact only married once and that all the references to Ermengarde and Emilde are to the same person.] Rotbald [II] & his first wife had one child:

a) EMMA ([975/80]-after 1063). "Dominus princeps et marchio istius provinciæ…Willelmus cum coniuge sua…Adelaix et filio suo…Willelmo" restored property to the abbey of Saint-Césaire d´Arles by charter dated 992, subscribed by "Domnus Rotbaldus comes…Willelmus comes filius Rotbaldi et uxor sua Lucia, Wilelmus comes Tolosanus et uxor sua Ema…"[228]. "Wilelmus comes Tholose" donated "villam…Pertusus…in regno Provinciæ in pago Aquense" to the monastery of Saint-Pierre de Psalmody by charter dated 999 which names "Emam uxorem eius et…filios eorum…Raimundum et Aialricum et Pontium et Bertrannum"[229]. These two charters show that Emma was married much earlier than is generally shown in secondary sources. "Ema comitissa filia Rotboldi comitis et Hermengardæ uxoris eius, matris meæ" donated property "ex hereditate…in comitatu Forojuliensi in castro…Favart" to the priory of Courrenz (in Provence) by charter dated 22 Apr 1015, signed by "Ema comitissa, Heldebertus de Castro-Rainaldo"[230]. "Emma comitissa et filius meus Pontius" donated property to Saint-André d´Avignon by charter dated Nov 1024[231]. "Wilelmus comes Tolosanus et uxor mea Ema" donated property to Saint-Victor de Marseille by charter dated 1024[232]. "Emma comitissa et filius meus Pontius" donated property in Avignon to "ecclesiæ sancti Martini in monte Andaone" by undated charter[233]. m (992 or before) as his second wife GUILLAUME III "Taillefer" Comte de Toulouse, son of RAYMOND PONS Comte de Toulouse & his [second] wife Adelais d'Anjou ([970/75]-Sep 1037, bur Toulouse, Saint-Sernin).

Rotbald [II] & his [first/second] wife had [three] children:

b) GUILLAUME [V] (-after 1037). "Dominus princeps et marchio istius provinciæ…Willelmus cum coniuge sua…Adelaix et filio suo…Willelmo" restored property to the abbey of Saint-Césaire d´Arles by charter dated 992, subscribed by "Domnus Rotbaldus comes…Willelmus comes filius Rotbaldi et uxor sua Lucia, Wilelmus comes Tolosanus et uxor sua Ema…"[234]. "Ermengarda regina et filii mei Ugo et Willelmus" signed a letter dated 1019[235]. Thietmar records that "King Rudolf's wife" commended to Emperor Heinrich II her two sons, stepsons of her husband, at a meeting at Strasbourg in 1016 but does not name them[236]. Comte de Provence. "Vuilelmus filius Rodbaldi" donated property "in comitatu Aquense in valle…Cagnanam" to Marseille Saint-Victor by charter dated 1024, signed by "Adalaiz comitissa, Vuilelmus comes filius Rodbaldi"[237]. "Willelmus comes Provincie et uxor mea…Lucia" donated property to Saint-Victor, Marseille by charter dated 1030, signed by "Poncius comes, filius Tolosani, Bertrannus frater eius"[238]. "Willelmus comes Provinciæ…Lucia uxor mea" donated property "Diliadam et Septem Fontes…in episcopatu Regensi" to Cluny by charter dated 1037, which is marked on the back "Willelmi comitis filii Rodbaldi"[239]. m (992 or before) LUCIA, daughter of --- (-after 1037). "Dominus princeps et marchio istius provinciæ…Willelmus cum coniuge sua…Adelaix et filio suo…Willelmo" restored property to the abbey of Saint-Césaire d´Arles by charter dated 992, subscribed by "Domnus Rotbaldus comes…Willelmus comes filius Rotbaldi et uxor sua Lucia, Wilelmus comes Tolosanus et uxor sua Ema…"[240]. The list of subscribers of this document presents dating difficulties as the last two named couples appear from other primary sources to belong to a later period. The probable explanation is that two lists from two different documents were copied and incorrectly combined. "Willelmus comes Provincie et uxor mea…Lucia" donated property to Saint-Victor, Marseille by charter dated 1030, signed by "Poncius comes, filius Tolosani, Bertrannus frater eius"[241]. "Willelmus comes Provinciæ…Lucia uxor mea" donated property "Diliadam et Septem Fontes…in episcopatu Regensi" to Cluny by charter dated 1037, which is marked on the back "Willelmi comitis filii Rodbaldi"[242].

c) EMILDE . Nun. She is named in Europäische Stammtafeln[243] as the daughter of Rotbald [II] but the primary source on which this is based has not yet been identified.

d) [TETBERGA (-after 1010). Armengol and his wife "Geriberga" sold property to a vassal by charter dated 11 Jun 1101[244]. Her origin is not known. She is shown in Europäische Stammtafeln[245] as Tetberga, (presumably on the basis that "Geriberga" is a mistranscription in the document cited above) [daughter of Rotbold [II] Comte de Provence & his wife Eimilde de Gevaudan], but the basis for this speculation is not known. m (before 11 Jun 1001) ARMENGOL [I] "él de Córdoba" Comte de Urgell, son of BORELL [II] Comte de Barcelona & his first wife Ledgarda [de Toulouse] ([975]-Córdoba 1 Sep 1010).]

Rotbald [II] & his [third] wife had [two] children:

e) [HUGUES (-after 1019). "Ermengarda regina et filii mei Ugo et Willelmus" signed a charter dated 1019[246]. Thietmar records that "King Rudolf's wife" commended to Emperor Heinrich II her two sons, stepsons of her husband, at a meeting at Strasbourg in 1016 but does not name them[247]. The identification of these two brothers as the sons of Comte Rotbald [II] assumes that Comte Rotbald´s supposed third wife Ermengarde married secondly Rudolf III King of Burgundy, which as explained above is not proven beyond doubt.]

f) [GUILLAUME (-after 1019). "Ermengarda regina et filii mei Ugo et Willelmus" signed a letter dated 1019[248]. Thietmar records that "King Rudolf's wife" commended to Emperor Heinrich II her two sons, stepsons of her husband, at a meeting at Strasbourg in 1016 but does not name them[249]. The identification of these two brothers as the sons of Comte Rotbald [II] assumes that Comte Rotbald´s supposed third wife Ermengarde married secondly Rudolf III King of Burgundy, which as explained above is not proven beyond doubt. As far as Guillaume is concerned, it seems unlikely that he was the same person as Guillaume [V] Comte de Provence who, as a middle-aged adult, would not have needed to be "commended" to the emperor by his wife in 1016. In any case, it seems unlikely that Rotbald would have given the name Guillaume to the second of the sons when his older half-brother, the future Guillaume [V] Comte de Provence, was still alive as shown above.]


-------------------- Rotbold III of Provence From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Rotbold III (also Rothbold, Rotbald, Rodbald, Roubaud, or Rotbaud; died 1014 or 1015) was the Count and Margrave of Provence from 1005 to his death. He was the only son of Rotbold II and Emilde, daughter of Stephen, Viscount of Gévaudan. He inherited all his father's titles on his death in 1008. He is an obscure person, difficult to differentiate from his father. He was the first husband of Ermengard, later wife of Rudolf III of Burgundy. He left two sons, referred to as stepsons of the king of Burgundy, named Hugh and William III. He left one daughter, Emma, who married William III Taillefer, Count of Toulouse, and thus brought the margravial title in Provence to the House of Toulouse. -------------------- The family of Rotbold de PROVENCE and Ermengarde d'AQUITAINE [129059] PROVENCE (de), Rotbold (..)

  • married about 910, from France ? (France)

AQUITAINE (d'), Ermengarde (..)

     1) Boso, married about 945 Constance de PROVENCE

Bibliographie : Internet (web); Essai sur l'histoire des comtes souverains de Provence

http://www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/129/129059.php -------------------- From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on Provence: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/PROVENCE.htm#_Toc220666440

ROTBALD [I], son of --- (-[949]) married ---. The wife of Rotbald is not known.

It has been speculated, for onomastic reasons only, that she was --- d'Aquitaine, daughter of Guillaume "le Pieux" Duke of Aquitaine & his wife Engelberga de Provence, but there appears to be no other basis for this suggestion[186].

Rotbald & his wife had two children:

1. BOSON (-after Oct [965/67]. "Bosoni comitis, filii Rothboldi quondam" restored property to Saint-Victor by charter dated Mar 965[187]. Comte [d'Arles]. COMTES de PROVENCE.

2. GUILLAUME [I] (-after Mar 965). "Eius filio Rothboldo et fratre eius Wilelmo comite" consented to the charter of "Bosoni comitis, filii Rothboldi quondam" dated Mar 965, signed by "comes Boso…comes Wilelmus…"[188]. Comte [d´Avignon]. "Wilelmus comes" granted property "in comitatu Avenionense" to "Archimbalde filius meus clericus" by charter dated 962, signed by "Boso, comes ad vicem patris sui Wilelmi…Nevelongo vicecomite"[189]. It is not beyond doubt that "Willelmus comes" can be identified with the brother of Comte Boson but the reference to Avignon makes this likely. m ---. The name of this couple's possible son suggests a family connection between his mother and the family of the Sires de Bourbon. She is shown in Europäische Stammtafeln[190] as the daughter of Aimon de Bourbon but it is not known whether this is speculation based only on onomastics or whether it is based on a primary source which has not been identified. Guillaume & his wife had [two] children.

References:

[186] Nathaniel Taylor 'Rotbald and William the Pious' at GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com, 29 Jul 2003. [187] Gallia Christiana Novissima, Marseille, Col. 47-48, no. 66, and Marseille Saint-Victor Tome I, 29, p. 40. [188] Gallia Christiana Novissima, Marseille, Col. 47-48, no. 66, and Marseille Saint-Victor Tome I, 29, p. 40. [189] Manteyer (1908), pp. 203 and 348, quoting Arch. de Vaucluse G., chap. métr., art. 27 provisoire, ff. 30 v.-31 r. [190] ES II 187.

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Ermengarde de Provence's Timeline

941
941
France?
959
959
Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Midi-Pyrénées, France
1057
August 28, 1057
Age 98
What is the source of this death date?
????
????
France