About François II du Plessis, Seigneur des Breux, de La Carrelière et de Thou
This Francois du Plessis is the South African ancestor. He had been incorrectly merged into his cousin Francois du Plessis de Richelieu using erroneous genealogical sources prior to Geni:
Unfortunately the depressing result of the above corrections is that the SA du PLessis line is no longer directly connected to Charlemagne, as it was relying, not on the du Plessis connection, but on the de Richelieu connection. And the de Richelieu Francois' line to Charlemagne is through his mother; whereas our Francois ancestor is the de Richeliu Francois' cousin only on the paternal line. Fuller Discussion & tracking of the process by which we discovered this.
Please see the du Plessis Family Project Page where I have put a fuller family tree tracking both lines. [Sharon June 2012] Also http://www.geni.com/discussions/117065?msg=843653 as a result of what appears to be a deliberate attempt to re-connect the line to Charlemagne by simply changing the names. [Sharon Jan 2013]
1. Pierre III., Seigneur du Plessis, des Breux, de La Carrelière, de Forges et de Thou, † 1401; ∞ Ragonde Vigier.
1. Jean, † 1446, Seigneur du Plessis, des Breux, de Roys, de La Carrelière, de Faye et de Thou ∞ Catherine Frétart.
2. Mandé, Seigneur du Plessis, des Breux, de Roys, de La Carrelière, de Faye et de Thou ∞ Marie, Tochter von Gui, Seigneur de La Tousche
1. Sauvage, Seigneur du Plessis, des Breux, de Vaux, de Roys, de La Milaudière, de La Carrelière et de Thou; ∞ I 31. Januar 1474 Françoise L'Evêque; ∞ II 15. Dezember 1485 Jeanne, Tochter von Alain de Rouyères, Seigneur de Brunhac
1. (I) François I., Seigneur du Plessis, des Breux, de La Milaudière, de La Carrelière et de Thou; Madeleine, Tochter von Philippe de Champropin, Seigneur d'Oncières
1. François II., Seigneur du Plessis, des Breux, de La Carrelière et de Thou ∞ 22. März 1541 Françoise, Tochter von Joachim de Chergé, Seigneur de Buxeil
3. Thoinette oder Thiennette
2. (I) Hervé
3. (I) Antoine
4. (I) Jacques
5. (I) Marie ∞ Robert Châteignier
6. (I) Françoise ∞ Jacques de La Tour, Seigneur de La Place
7. (II) Gilles
8. (II) Antoinette
3. Antoinette ∞ 28. Juli 1436 Neugon de La Barde
4. Claudine ∞ Louis d'Harcourt, Seigneur de Montlouis
2. Héliot, Seigneur de Forges
3. Marguerite ∞ Guyot de La Lande
4. Hélène ∞ I Naudin Badetrant ∞ II Perrot de La Lande, Seigneur de Vaul
Thanks to Alexander Armenis for the following research:
Most of the dates below are suspect:
220.127.116.11.1. Guillaume III Du Plessis (*c.1332) (+aft. 20/04/1373) Chevalier, seigneur du Plessis et de la Vervolière, Valignière et de Carrelière x Charlotte de la Celle, daughter of Jean de la Celle [Chevalier, Seneschal (bailiff) of Carcassone]
18.104.22.168.1.1. Pierre III Du Plessis (*c.1360) (+1401) Seigneur du Plessis et seigneur des Breux et seigneur de La Carrelière et seigneur de Forges et seigneur de Thou. Inherited the Lordships of Breux, la Carreliere and Forges, the private castle and the outhouses of Thou in the Chancellary of Angle on 18/02/1388 x Ragonde Vigiere
22.214.171.124.1.1.1. Jean Du Plessis (*c.1401) (+c.1466) Écuyer, seigneur du Plessis et des Breux, capitaine des Pleces de Angle et du Blanc, escurie du Roy Charles VII x Catharine Fretarde
126.96.36.199.188.8.131.52. Mande Du Plessis (*c.1425) [Seigneur du Plessis et seigneur des Breux et seigneur de Roys et seigneur de La Carrelière et seigneur de Faye et seigneur de Thou] x Marie de la Toucshe d.o. Gui seigneur de Tousche
184.108.40.206.220.127.116.11.1. Sauvage Du Plessis (*c.1450) (+c.1502) [Seigneur du Plessis et seigneur des Breux et seigneur de Vaux et seigneur de Roys et seigneur de La Milaudière et seigneur de La Carrelière et seigneur de Thou x (31-01-1474) Françoise l’Evêque xx (15/12/1485) Jeanne de Rouyéres, daughter of Alain de Rouyéres [Seigneur de Brunhac]
18.104.22.168.22.214.171.124.1.1. Francois I du Plessis (*c.1480) (+shortly bef.1545) x Madeleine de Champropin
126.96.36.199.188.8.131.52.1.1.1. Francois II du Plessis (c.1510-1560), Ecuyer, Seigneur du Plessis, des Breux, La Carreliere., et Thou x Francoise de Charge, daughter of Joachim de Charge & Marguerite de Boisleve
184.108.40.206.220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168. Jean Du Plessis [7 years old in 1556] (*1548) x (c.1575) Judith Anne Du Plessis Du Mornay (*c.1555 Buhv, Vexin) daughter of Seigneur de Lienart du Mornay of Poitiers
22.214.171.124.126.96.36.199.188.8.131.52.1. Charl Du Plessis (*c.1590) (+c.1640) [Medical Surgeon in Poitiers] x Anne Pieur? (*c.1616 Poitiers, Poitou Province)
184.108.40.206.220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168.1.1. Jean Prieur Du Plessis (*26/04/1638 St Liénart, Poitiers, Poitou Province) [Medical Surgeon in Poitiers] [Immigrated to South Africa]
Sources include a mash of the following:
- Dr Coetzee 'Du Plessis' book.
- Hendrik du Plessis's notes to me
- And a number of references given in the above.
Please see Discussion about the confusion between two Francois.
We are greatly indebted for a large amount of info elicited by a conversation that Hendrik DuPlessis had on ancestry.com on 5/7/05 1:51 PM:
Hi there listeners,
I hope somebody can find out something in Poitiers, France (I live in
My ancestor, Jean Prieur du Plessis was born and baptized 1638 at
Poitiers, (St.Lienert), Poitou, France. His father was Charl du Plessis,
who was a surgeon in Poitiers. Charl was born about 1590 and his wife¹s
name is unknown. Charl¹s father was Francois II du Plessis, born about
1510 and died 1560 (Great grandfather of the Duke of Richelieu).
Jean Prieur du Plessis married his 1st wife JEANNE SANZEAU during 1674
at Lusigna, a rural church South West of Poitiers.
His 2nd wife was Madeleine Menanteau (born Poitiers, Vienna, Poitou,
This is the story I have and would be pleased if somebody could verify
these particulars in Poitiers and send me a digitized copy of the
documents. I will pay reasonable costs.
Hendrik du Plessis
From: Rob Umney <email@example.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:41:34 +1000
In 1530 François du Plessis (b. 1480) may have married:
Marguerite Boilesue (born 1509).
On 22 March 1540 François du Plessis (b. 1480) married again: Françoise de
Charge (born 1505/1520).
François and Françoise had a son:
Jean du Plessis (born 1548, m. Judith Anne du Plessis du Mornay)
Jean du Plessis, my great-(x10)-grandfather, was born in 1548, the son of
François du Plessis and Françoise de Charge . In about 1575 Jean married
Judith Anne du Plessis du Mornay, who was born in 1555 at Buhv, Vetin,
daughter of Seigneur de Lienart du Mornay of Poitiers.
Jean and Judith had a son:
Charles du Plessis (born 1600)
Jean du Plessis died aged 92 in 1640
Charles du Plessis, my great-(x9)-grandfather, was born in 1600, the son of
Jean du Plessis and Judith Anne du Plessis du Mornay. In 1630 Charles
married (wife¹s name unknown, perhaps Prieur); she was born in 1616 in the
Poitou region of France.
Charles and his wife had a son:
Jean Prieur du Plessis (born 1638 at Poitiers, m. Madeleine Menanteau)
Charles du Plessis died aged 40 in 1640.
Jean Prieur du Plessis, my great-(x8)-grandfather, was born in 1638 at
Poitiers, Poitou, the son of Charles du Plessis. Jean was confirmed at the
age of 49, on 20 September 1687 at Amsterdam-Waalse, Netherlands, before
embarking on the voyage to South Africa. Jean was a chirurgyn (surgeon
doctor); he arrived at the Cape in 1688 on the ship Oosterland with his
pregnant wife Madeleine Marie Menanteau, who was born in 1642 (or 1655) at
Jean and Madeleine had three children:
1. Charles (Carel) Prieur du Plessis (born 18 April 1688 on board the ship
Oosterland, baptised 29 April 1688 on board the ship Oosterland, m. Cecilia
2. Jean Louis (b. 13 February 1691, bap. 25 February 1691 at Stellenbosch,
d. 14 March 1768 at Tulbagh, Waveren, m. [5 May 1714] Madeleine Rousseau
(Magdalena Rossouw), b. 26 February 1691, d. 2 October 1780 at Waveren, d.o.
Pierre Rousseau and Anne Retief, ch: Charl (bap. 22 Dec 1722 Drakenstein, d.
31 July 1797, m. (1) [19 December 1741] Maria van Ellewee
3. Judith (b. 1693/4 in Ireland, m. (1) [29 March 1711 at Stellenbosch] Ary
van Eeden, bap. 16 April 1690, s.o. Jan Janse van Eeden and Maria Russaar;
m. (2) [14 January 1714 at Stellenbosch] Jan Oberholster from Oberholz,
Wald, Zurich, d. 1723; m. (3) [2 January 1724 at Cape Town] Claas Dompselaar
(van Donselaar) from Wageningen in Gelderland, Netherlands)
Madeleine Marie Menanteau died in 1693 at Amsterdam.
Jean returned to Europe in 1693 on the ship Sirjansland, and returned to the
Cape with his second wife Marie Buisset, born in Sedan about 1676, whom he
had married in Amsterdam on 29 August 1700.
Jean and Marie had three children:
1. Maria (born 1702, m (1) [7 November 1718 at Stellenbosch] Johannes van
Ellewee from Amsterdam, ch: Maria; m. (2) [31 August 1749 at Stellenbosch]
Johan George Zorn from Pfieffe in Hesse-Nassau
2. Anna (born 1704, m. (1) 16 August 1733 at Stellenbosch] Johann Friedrich
Biermann from Hamburg, born 1695, s.o. Jacob Friedrich Biermann and
Elisabeth Oudenaarts; m. (2) [17 September 1747 at Cape Town] Johan Martin
Vogel from Scwabelwald, Bayreuth
3. Pieter (bap. July 1708, m. (1) [21 October 1731 at Cape Town] Geertruy
Janse van Deventer, bap. 3 January 1717, d.o. Gerrit Janse van Deventer and
Ariaantje Jacobs; m. (2) [17 April 1745 at Paarl] Francina Maré, Bap. 27
November 1718, d.o. Ignace Maré and Susanna van Vuuren
Jean Prieur du Plessis died on 7 December 1708 at Stellenbosch.
Do you have any more information on the family?
The Great-grandson of Geoffroy was François III seigneur de Richelieu, de Béçay et du Chillou, Grand prévôt de France , born 1539 who was the father by third [*see note below] wife, Françoise DE CHARGE (born 1505/1520) whom he married on 22 March 1540 of Jean du Plessis (born 1548, m. Judith Anne DU PLESSIS DU MORNAY). Their son Charl was born in 1600. Died in 1640. In 1630 Charl (Charles) married (wife’s name unknown – presumed to be Anne Prieur); she was born in 1616 in the Poitou region of France. Their son Jean Prieur DU PLESSIS (26 April 1638 and baptized 1638 at Poitiers, (St.Lienert), Poitou, France. He is the progenitor of the du Plessis family that came to South Africa. www.duplessisrsa.com
[* We think this is unlikely to have been his 3rd wife, and results from a confusion with another Francois …Sharon 2012] This note by Alexander Armenis on the issue is an excellent description of the problem:
Francois II du Plessis, ancestor of the South African family is more sensibly the son of Madeleine Champropin and not the son of Renée Eveillechien.
Hendrik du Plessis sent me the following that confirms the Francois II ancestor who married Francoise de Charge was not the Francois II who married Guyonne de Laval and Anne le Roy aka Cardinal Richelieu's family.
Background info regarding Francois II du Plessis & Francoise de Charge as given to me by Hendrik du Plessis in his registry:
LORD FRANCOIS II - Du Nom Escuyer, Seigneur du Plessis & Des Breux. Dates shown 1541, 1545, 1510, 1560. From 1519 onwards, he and his father Francois I, sold many of their properties to Mathurin Bouchart, Squire Lord of Neon. Francois II was still very young, and after his father died he married Francoise de Charge, daughter of Joachim de Charge, Chevalier, Lord of Buxueil near de la Haye.
The marriage contract was signed on 22 Mar 1541, with the permission of Lady Francois de Loubbes-de Charge the second wife of her father, who must have been deceased then. Others present were: Rene de Grailly, Squire, Lord of Dessurleaux and his wife Bertrande de Charge [Francoise aunt] Anthonie d'Authon, Squire, Lord of La Loque Guilliaume de Charge, Squire, Lord of Fosse Arlie du Plessis Claude du Plessis, Priest of Dueil
Later Francois II shows on the census of Nobles, which according to the order and Arriere-order [kings order], called upon the Dukedom of Pitou to record before Francois, Lord of Puy de Fou, Chevalier, Head carver of King Francois I, Captain of the towns and castles of Nantes. His majesty bestowed this commission on Francois I, Puy du Fou.
In the year 1545, Francois II and his brother Claude du Plessis divided the properties left to them by their father and mother, as well as the collateral inherited properties which they inherited through the death of Sir Jean de Champropin, Chevalier, Lord of Chambort and Chagry, their mothers brother, and from Marie du Plessis, their fathers sister, and others.
Francois II did not live long after. He and his wife left children, some who were minors, in the care of Joachim de Grailly, Squire, Lord of Perteaux in 1556. Because there was no further record of title among these children, the author could not gather any further info.
Find records for Joachim de Grailly - may have been the son of Rene, married to his wife’s aunt.
NA Coetzee pg 76 shows Bertrande de Charge as aunt of Francoise de Charge, de Grailly was her husband. Title Squire, Lord of Dessuleaux - he was present at the wedding of Francois du Plessis II.
Also shown is Joachim de Grailly, who could be his son. Title, Squire, Lord of Perteaux. In 1556 he was charged with the care of the children of Francois du Plessis IIPg 171 NA Coetzee and Amalia du Plessis show that Francois and his wife and some of his older children, took refuge from the murdering Catholics with Joachim de Grailly, then either fled or were killed shortly after, leaving behind 2 sons, among other minor children, that were mentioned, namely Jean - 7 years old and Guilliame - 1 year old. There is no inconclusive evidence linking them to Jean Prieur, but Jean is believed to be his grandfather.
Here is a published family registry from 1868 that confirms what we are saying here, namely that there are two men named Francois II du Plessis, the one married once on 22/03/1541 to Francoise de Cherge; while the other Francois II du Plessis married on 25/01/1489 to Guyonne de Laval and on 31/03/1506 to Anne le Roy.
François II du Plessis, Seigneur des Breux, de La Carrelière et de Thou's Timeline
March 22, 1541
Poitiers, Poitou, France