Gautier / Walter Pontoise Comte de Dreux (de Gouy), Comte d'Amiens, du Vexin, de Valois et de Dreux (919 - c.966) MP

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Nicknames: "Gauthier", "Gautier Count of Amiens Vexin & Valois", "Gauthier Count of Dreux", "Walter De Tirel", "Gauthier Comte en Vexin et Amiens de Tirel"
Birthplace: Valois now Oise, Picardy, France
Death: Died in Amiens, Somme, Picardy, France or Plouigneau, Bretagne/Brittany
Cause of death: alt date of death 992-998
Occupation: comte de Vexin, Valois, et Amiens
Managed by: Erica Isabel Howton, (c)
Last Updated:

About Gautier / Walter Pontoise Comte de Dreux (de Gouy), Comte d'Amiens, du Vexin, de Valois et de Dreux

Curator's Note (PW): There are two Gauthiers who may or may not be the same person: Gauthier Count of Amiens, Vexin & Valois, and Gauthier Count of Dreux.

Gauthier Count of Amiens is generally believed to have been the son of Raoul de Cambrai -- Count of Valois and Vexin, Ostervant and Amiens -- and Liegarde (de Meulan)

Gauthier Count of Dreux's parentage is vague, with one source naming his parents as Waleran and Eldegardis.

Note that Liegarde, wife of Raoul de Cambrai, also married Waleran de Meulan as her second husband. One wonders if the document referring to Eldegardis and Waleran might be referring to Liegardis and Waleran, interchanging Eldegardis/Liegardis.

This profile is combining the two identities into one personnage.

Notes from Charles Cawley's Medieval Lands Database discuss this dilemma http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm

GAUTHIER [I] d'Amiens ([before 925]-987).

Edouard de Saint-Phalle suggests that he was Gauthier, son of Raoul [I] Comte [d'Ostrevant][4]. This possible parentage is also shown in Europäische Stammtafeln[5]. The primary source which suggests that this might be the case has not yet been identified.

Another possibility is that he was the same person as Gauthier Comte de Dreux. The editor of the compilation of Chartres charters suggests that "Walterius…comitis Waleranni filius" (PW: Walter count [of Dreux], son of Waleran) inherited "comes Velcassinus" (Vexin) from his father, and "Ambianensis" (Amiens) from "matre autem Eldegarde" (acquiring Dreux from his wife's family)[6]. The primary sources on which this information is based have not yet been identified.

However, two facts suggest that this hypothesis may be correct.

Firstly, Gauthier Comte de Dreux is also recorded with a wife named Eva (although the necrology entries quoted here and in PARIS REGION NOBILITY (Comtes de Dreux) suggest that there were two countesses of this name at the time).

Secondly, the castle of Mantes, occupied by the descendants of Gauthier Comte d'Amiens, was near Dreux.

"Wauterii comitis, Walterii et Radulfi filiorum eius" subscribed a charter dated 975 under which "Hugo Francorum dux" restored the abbey of Saint-Jean to the abbey of Sainte-Croix d'Orléans[7].

Comte d'Amiens.

A charter of "Hugo…Francorum rex" confirming the privileges of the monastery of Corvey dated 987 is subscribed by "Walteri comitis Ambianensis ac filiorum eius Walteri, Gotfredi, Rodulfi"[8].

The necrology of the abbey of Saint-Germain-des-Prés records the death "XIX Kal Feb" of "Gualterii comitis"[9].

m firstly EVA, daughter of --- (-[19 Jan or 23 Nov] ----). The necrology of the abbey of Sainte-Colombe records the death "XIV Kal Feb" of "Eve comitisse"[10].

m secondly ADELA, daughter of ---. A list of members of the Cathedral of Paris lists (in order) "…Walterius comes, Adela comitissa…"[11]. According to Europäische Stammtafeln[12], she was Adela d'Anjou, daughter of Foulques [I] "le Roux" Comte d'Anjou & his wife Roscilla [de Loches] (after 909-). The primary source on which this is based has not yet been identified; it is possible that it is speculative, based on one of her sons being named Foulques.

Comte Gauthier [I] & his [first/second] wife had five children:

a) GAUTHIER [II] "le Blanc" (-after 1017). A charter of "Hugo…Francorum rex" confirming the privileges of the monastery of Corvey dated 987 is subscribed by "Walteri comitis Ambianensis ac filiorum eius Walteri, Gotfredi, Rodulfi"[13]. Comte d'Amiens et du Vexin.

- see below.

b) RAOUL . "Wauterii comitis, Walterii et Radulfi filiorum eius" subscribed a charter dated 975 under which "Hugo Francorum dux" restored the abbey of Saint-Jean to the abbey of Sainte-Croix d'Orléans[14]. A charter of "Hugo…Francorum rex" confirming the privileges of the monastery of Corvey dated 987 is subscribed by "Walteri comitis Ambianensis ac filiorum eius Walteri, Gotfredi, Rodulfi"[15].

c) GUY . The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.

d) GODEFROY . A charter of "Hugo…Francorum rex" confirming the privileges of the monastery of Corvey dated 987 is subscribed by "Walteri comitis Ambianensis ac filiorum eius Walteri, Gotfredi, Rodulfi"[16].

e) FOULQUES . The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.

Sources

  • [4] Saint-Phalle, E. de 'Les comtes de Gâtinais aux X et XI siècles', Keats-Rohan, K. S. B. and Settipani, C. (eds.) (2000) Onomastique et Parenté dans l'Occident medieval (Prosopographica et Genealogica, Vol. 3), p. 234.
  • [5] ES III 657.
  • [6] Guérard, M. (ed.) (1840) Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Saint-Père de Chartres (Paris) ("Chartres Saint-Père"), Tome I, p. 56 footnote 1.
  • [7] Thillier, J. and Jarry, E. (eds.) (1906) Cartulaire de Sainte-Croix d'Orléans 814-1300 (Paris) ("Sainte-Croix d'Orléans") LXIII, p. 123.
  • [8] RHGF X, IV, p. 552.
  • [9] Obituaires de Sens Tome I.1, Abbaye de Saint-Germain-des-Prés, p. 248.
  • [10] Obituaires de Sens Tome I.1, Abbaye de Sainte-Colombe, p. 15.
  • [11] Obituaires de Sens Tome I.2, Eglise cathedrale de Paris, p. 1015.
  • [12] ES III 657.
  • [13] RHGF X, IV, p. 552.
  • [14] Sainte-Croix d'Orléans LXIII, p. 123.
  • [15] RHGF X, IV, p. 552.
  • [16] RHGF X, IV, p. 552.

Also, there is a strong likelihood that he was the same as Gauthier Comte de Dreux; see http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/PARIS%20REGION%20NOBILITY.htm#_Toc257353336:

WALERAN . m ELDEGARDIS, daughter of ---. "Eldegardis" donated property "de prædiorum meorum possessionibus hereditariam…Guntherii villa" (Gondreville) to "Sancti Petri Carnotensis", for the soul of "senioris mei Valeranni", and with the agreement of "Walterio comite filio meo", by charter dated to before 967, subscribed by "Hugonis ducis, Walterii comitis"[1101]. Waleran & his wife had one child:

a) GAUTHIER (-14 Jan, after 965).

"Eldegardis" donated property "de prædiorum meorum possessionibus hereditariam…Guntherii villa" (Gondreville) to "Sancti Petri Carnotensis", for the soul of "senioris mei Valeranni", and with the agreement of "Walterio comite filio meo", by charter dated to before 967, subscribed by "Hugonis ducis, Walterii comitis"[1102].

Comte de Dreux.

"Walterius, comes Dorcassini comitatus" donated property "ecclesiam…sancti Georgii" to "monasterio Sancti Petri Carnotensis", for the soul of "prædecessoris mei Landrici comitis", by charter dated 965, subscribed by "…Richardi ducis…"[1103]. The editor of the compilation of these charters suggests that "Walterius…comitis Waleranni filius" inherited "comes Velcassinus" from his father, and "Ambianensis" from "matre autem Eldegarde"[1104].

The primary sources on which this information is based have not yet been identified. It is therefore possible that Gauthier was the same person as Gauthier Comte d'Amiens. Two facts suggest that this hypothesis may be correct.

Firstly, Gauthier Comte d'Amiens is also recorded with a wife named Eva (although the necrology entries quoted here and in the document NORTHERN FRANCE (Comtes de Valois et d'Amiens) suggest that there were two countesses of that name at the time).

Secondly, the descendants of Gauthier Comte d'Amiens are recorded as counts at Mantes, which is near Dreux.

"Comes Walterius" donated property to "Sancti Petri Carnotensis" with the consent of "uxoris meæ Evæ", by undated charter at Dreux[1105].

The necrology of Chartres Cathedral records the death "XIX Kal Feb" of "Walterius comes" and his donation of "alodos suos…in pago Dorcasino et Carnoto"[1106].

The necrology of the abbey of Saint-Père-en-Vallée records the death "XIX Kal Feb" of "Gualterius comes Dorcassini castri qui dedit Sancto Petro ecclesiam Roheris"[1107] (it is assumed that "ecclesiam Roheris" is the same as "ecclesiam…sancti Georgii" which Gauthier donated under the first charter quoted above).

m EVA, daughter of --- (-23 Nov ----). "Comes Walterius" donated property to "Sancti Petri Carnotensis" with the consent of "uxoris meæ Evæ", by undated charter at Dreux[1108]. As noted above, the editor of the compilation of Chartres charters suggests that "Landricus…comes Dorcassinus" was father of "Evæ, Walterii I uxoris" and that Gauthier inherited the county of Dreux from his father-in-law[1109]. The primary source on which this is based has not yet been identified. The necrology of the abbey of Saint-Père-en-Vallée records the death "IX Kal Dec" of "Eva comitissa"[1110]. The necrology of the abbey of Saint-Germain-des-Prés records the death "IX Kal Dec" of "Æva comitissa"[1111]. -----------------------

From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps04/ps04_230.htm

"Ancestral Roots..." (Balt., 1992) 250-18 gives him as "Walter I, Count of Aiens, Valois and the Vexin, d. 992/998; m. Adele, dau., perh. of Fulk I, Count of Anjou....Walter I was son of Ralph, Count of Valois", either the one shown here as his father or a son of this Ralph.

References: [AR7],[RFC],[RoyalAAF]

--------------------

Gautier I, comte de Vexin, Valois, et Amiens1,2

b. circa 925, d. between 992 and 998

Father Raoul de Gouy b. circa 905, d. 926

Mother Eldegarde d' Amiens b. circa 905, d. after 965

    Gautier I, comte de Vexin, Valois, et Amiens was born circa 925. He was the son of Raoul de Gouy and Eldegarde d' Amiens. Gautier I, comte de Vexin, Valois, et Amiens married Adèle d'Anjou, daughter of Foulques I "le Roux", comte d'Anjou and Roscille, dame de Loches, before 944. Gautier I, comte de Vexin, Valois, et Amiens died between 992 and 998.

Family

Adèle d'Anjou b. circa 924

Children

Gautier II "the White", comte de Vexin, Valois, et Amiens+ b. c 944, d. 10273

Bishop of Soissons Guy de Vexin b. 946?3

Geoffrey de Vexin+ b. 950?3

Fulk de Vexin b. 952?

Citations

[S206] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr. and assisted by David Faris Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis: AR 7th ed., 250-18.

[S204] Roderick W. Stuart, RfC, 185-36.

[S1073] Bernard S. Bachrach, Bachrach, pg. 264. --------------------

   * Born: 919, Vexin, Normandy, France
   * Died: 996

http://www.celtic-casimir.com/webtree/3/6102.htm -------------------- There are two Gauthiers who may or may not be the same person: Gauthier Count of Amiens, Vexin & Valois, and Gauthier Count of Dreux.

Gauthier Count of Amiens is believed to have been the son of Raoul de Cambrai -- Count of Valois and Vexin, Ostervant and Amiens -- and Liegarde (de Meulan)

Liegarde, wife of Raoul de Cambrai, also married Waleran de Meulan as her second husband.

Gauthier Count of Dreux's parentage is vague, with one source naming his parents as Waleran and Eldegardis. It is believed that Eldegardis and Waleran might be referring to Liegardis and Waleran, interchanging Eldegardis/Liegardis.

The reason of naming them as his parents would likely be because Raoul de Cambrai died in 926 AD at the age of 53 in Valois,Oise,Picardy,France. Gauthier at the time of his fathers death would have been seven.

This profile is combining the two identities into one personnage.

view all 17

Gautier I, comte du Vexin's Timeline

919
919
Valois now Oise, Picardy, France
925
925
Age 6
Gâtinais, France
943
943
Age 24
Amiens, Somme, France
954
954
Age 35
Amiens, Oise, Picardy, France
966
January 14, 966
Age 47
Amiens, Somme, Picardy, France or Plouigneau, Bretagne/Brittany
970
970
Age 47
Plouigneau, Brittany, France
1993
October 8, 1993
Age 47
1994
October 6, 1994
Age 47
????
Picardy, France
????
Vexin, , Normandy, France