Helen the elder verch Llewelyn

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Helen the elder verch Llewelyn

Nicknames: "/Helena/", "Las", "Elen Verch /Llywelyn/", "Helen Verch /Llewelyn/"
Birthdate:
Birthplace: Caernarvonshire, Wales
Death: Died in Chester, Cheshire, England
Place of Burial: Essex, England, United Kingdom
Immediate Family:

Daughter of Llywelyn the Great, Prince of Gwynedd and Joan, Lady of Wales
Wife of Robert de Quincy, Lord of Ware and John Le Scot, Earl of Chester
Mother of Anne de Quincy; Joan De Quincy and Hawise De Quincy Wake
Sister of Elen ferch Llywelyn; Gwladys "Ddu" verch Llewelyn; Gwenllian verch Llywelyn; Margaret (Margred) verch Llewelyn, Princess of Wales; Angharad verch Llywelyn and 2 others
Half sister of Tegwared Bais Wen; Gruffydd ap Llywelyn Fawr and Two siblings Fawr

Managed by: Private User
Last Updated:

About Helen the elder verch Llewelyn

Elen ferch Llywelyn

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Elen ferch Llywelyn (c. 1206 – 1253) was the daughter of Llywelyn the Great of Gwynedd in north Wales.

The records of Llywelyn's family are confusing, and it is not certain which of his children were illegitimate, but Elen appears to have been his legitimate daughter by Joan, illegitimate daughter of King John of England.

Elen married John de Scotia, Earl of Chester, in about 1222. He died aged thirty in 1237, and she re-married, her second husband being Sir Robert de Quincy. Their daughter, Hawise, was married to Baldwin Wake, Lord Wake of Lidel. Hawise and Baldwin’s granddaughter, Margaret Wake, was the mother of Joan of Kent, later Princess of Wales. Thus the blood of Llywelyn Fawr passed into the English royal family through King Richard II.

There is also a record of a "Helen" daughter of "Llywelyn of Wales" who married Mormaer Maol Choluim II, Earl of Fife and later married Domhnall I, Earl of Mar. The dates appear to rule out this being Elen, since Maol Chaluim II did not die until 1266 while Elen's death is recorded in 1253. Some genealogists propose the existence of another Elen, an illegitimate daughter born towards the end of Llywelyn's life, but there is no clear evidence for this. Another possibility is that this Helen might have been an illegitimate daughter of Llywelyn the Last born when he was a young man, but there is also no evidence of the theory being true. More likely this lady was Susannah ferch Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, who was sent to England in 1228 and married the earl of Fife in the summer of 1237.[1]

[edit] Notes

^ G.E. Cockayne Complete Peerage Update.

[edit] Elen ferch Llywelyn in Fiction

Child of the Phoenix by Barbara Erskine

Here Be Dragons by Sharon Kay Penman

 This Welsh biographical article is a stub. You can help by expanding it.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elen_ferch_Llywelyn"

Categories: Welsh people stubs | 1206 births | 1253 deaths | Women of medieval Wales | Welsh royalty

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(Wikipedia): The records of Llywelyn's family are confusing, and it is not certain which of his chldren were illegitimate, but Elen appears to have been his legitimate daughter by Joan, illegitimate daughter of King John of England.

Elen married John de Scotia, Earl of Chester, in about 1222. He died aged thirty in 1237, and she re-married, her second husband being Sir Robert de Quincy. Their daughter, Hawise, was married to Baldwin Wake, Lord Wake of Lidel. Hawise and Baldwin's granddaughter, Margaret Wake, was the mother of Joan of Kent, later Princess of Wales. Thus the blood of Llywelyn Fawr passed into the English royal family through King Richard II.

There is also a record of a "Helen" daughter of "Llywelyn of Wales" who married Mormaer Choluim II, Earl of Fife and later married Domhnall I, Earl of Mar. The dates appear to rule out htis being Elen, since Maol Chaluim II did not die until 1266 while Elen's death is recorded in 1253. Some genealogists propose the existence of another Elen, an illegitimate daughter born towards the end of Llywelyn's life, but htere is no clear evidence for this. Another possibilty is that this Helen might have been an illegitimate daughter of Llywelyn the Last born when he was a young man, but there is also no evidence of the theory being true. More likely this lady was Susannah ferch Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, who was sent to England in 1228 and married the Earl of Fife in the summer of 1237.

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Elen ferch Llywelyn (c. 1206 – 1253) was the daughter of Llywelyn the Great of Gwynedd in north Wales.

The records of Llywelyn's family are confusing, and it is not certain which of his children were illegitimate, but Elen appears to have been his legitimate daughter by Joan, illegitimate daughter of King John of England.

Elen married John de Scotia, Earl of Chester, in about 1222. He died aged thirty in 1237, and she re-married, her second husband being Sir Robert de Quincy. Their daughter, Hawise, was married to Baldwin Wake, Lord Wake of Lidel. Hawise and Baldwin’s granddaughter, Margaret Wake, was the mother of Joan of Kent, later Princess of Wales. Thus the blood of Llywelyn Fawr passed into the English royal family through King Richard II.

There is also a record of a "Helen" daughter of "Llywelyn of Wales" who married Mormaer Maol Choluim II, Earl of Fife and later married Domhnall I, Earl of Mar. The dates appear to rule out this being Elen, since Maol Chaluim II did not die until 1266 while Elen's death is recorded in 1253. Some genealogists propose the existence of another Elen, an illegitimate daughter born towards the end of Llywelyn's life, but there is no clear evidence for this. Another possibility is that this Helen might have been an illegitimate daughter of Llywelyn the Last born when he was a young man, but there is also no evidence of the theory being true. More likely this lady was Susannah ferch Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, who was sent to England in 1228 and married the earl of Fife in the summer of 1237.[1]

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Elen ferch Llywelyn

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Elen ferch Llywelyn (c. 1206 – 1253) was the daughter of Llywelyn the Great of Gwynedd in north Wales.

The records of Llywelyn's family are confusing, and it is not certain which of his children were illegitimate, but Elen appears to have been his legitimate daughter by Joan, illegitimate daughter of King John of England.

Elen married John de Scotia, Earl of Chester, in about 1222. He died aged thirty in 1237, and she re-married, her second husband being Sir Robert de Quincy. Their daughter, Hawise, was married to Baldwin Wake, Lord Wake of Lidel. Hawise and Baldwin’s granddaughter, Margaret Wake, was the mother of Joan of Kent, later Princess of Wales. Thus the blood of Llywelyn Fawr passed into the English royal family through King Richard II.

There is also a record of a "Helen" daughter of "Llywelyn of Wales" who married Mormaer Maol Choluim II, Earl of Fife and later married Domhnall I, Earl of Mar. The dates appear to rule out this being Elen, since Maol Chaluim II did not die until 1266 while Elen's death is recorded in 1253. Some genealogists propose the existence of another Elen, an illegitimate daughter born towards the end of Llywelyn's life, but there is no clear evidence for this. Another possibility is that this Helen might have been an illegitimate daughter of Llywelyn the Last born when he was a young man, but there is also no evidence of the theory being true. More likely this lady was Susannah ferch Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, who was sent to England in 1228 and married the earl of Fife in the summer of 1237.[1]

[edit]Notes

^ G.E. Cockayne Complete Peerage Update.

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The Helen, daughter of Llewellyn, who was successively wife of Malcolm Earl de Mar and Donald, and mother of children by both, appears clearly the daughter of Llewellyn ap Iorworth but must not be confused with another daughter of Llewellyn ap Iowerth named Helen who was wife of John le Scot (Earl of Chester) and Robert de Quincy, whose mother was Princess Joan. [Ancestral Roots]

This Helen was illegitimate and born very late- shortly before Llewellyn's death.

-------------------- THE TIMES

Monarchs

John

1199-1216

Henry III

1216-1272

Edward I

1272-1307

EVENTS

King John seals Magna Carta 1215

Provisions of Oxford forced upon Henry III. This establishes a new form of government-limited regal authority.1257

LIFE

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Helen the elder verch Llewelyn's Timeline

1206
1206
Caernarvonshire, Wales
1222
November 22, 1222
Age 16
Chester, Cheshire, England, (Present UK)
1237
June 6, 1237
Age 31
England, United Kingdom
1238
1238
Age 32
England
1240
1240
Age 34
Of, Blisworth, Northamptonshire, England
1250
1250
Age 44
Blisworth, Clevedon, Northamptonshire, England
1253
November 25, 1253
Age 47
Chester, Cheshire, England
1294
1294
Age 47
Essex, England, United Kingdom
1933
February 20, 1933
Age 47
February 20, 1933
Age 47