Herbert "the Chamberlain" of Winchester (c.1060 - c.1130) MP

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Nicknames: "Chamberlain", "FitzHerbert of /Winchester/"
Birthplace: Winchester, Hampshire, England
Death: Died in Hampshire, England
Occupation: Chamberlain and Treasurer under William II and Henry I
Managed by: Gene
Last Updated:

About Herbert "the Chamberlain" of Winchester

He was Chamberlain and Treasurer of England under William I and William II. He is often called a son of Piers de Vermandois, who was probably invented to provide a genealogical link to the counts of Vermandois. According to Weis, his ancestry has not been proven. Burke's Commoners, a notoriously unreliable source, says he was a great grandson of Héribert de Vermandois.

Herbert FitzHenry of Winchester, Chamberlain of Henry I King of England

d. 1129

Parents unknown

married Emma de Blois 1st

married Milisent 2nd

Children with Emma de Blois:

Herbert FitzHerbert

William FitzHerbert

daughter m. Robert de Venuiz

daughter m. William Croc

Child with Milisent:

Stephen FitzHerbert

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http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3D-K.htm

HERBERT FitzHenry (-1129). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. "…Herbertus regis camerarius…" subscribed a charter dated Sep 1101 under which Bishop Herbert donated property to Norwich priory[152]. Chamberlain of Henry I King of England. An undated charter of Thomas Archbishop of York records that "domino Herberto Camerario et filio eius" were enfeoffed with "Laudesbrough, cum Tolethorpe, Wiverthorpe cum Helperthorp et duabus Luttunis in Turgisleby" and other properties in Yorkshire and in Gloucestershire, witnessed by "…Herbertus filius…"[153].

m firstly EMMA de Blois, illegitimate daughter of ETIENNE Comte de Blois & his mistress --- (before 1102-). The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified.

m secondly MILISENT, daughter of [ADAM], niece of William Turniant. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified.

Herbert & his first wife had [six] children:

i) HERBERT FitzHerbert [I] (-[before 1155]). The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Herbt fil Herbti Camer…tra patis sui" in Hampshire[154]. An undated charter of Thomas Archbishop of York records that "domino Herberto Camerario et filio eius" were enfeoffed with "Laudesbrough, cum Tolethorpe, Wiverthorpe cum Helperthorp et duabus Luttunis in Turgisleby" and other properties in Yorkshire and in Gloucestershire, witnessed by "…Herbertus filius…"[155]. "…Hereberto filio Hereberti…" subscribed a charter of Renaud Earl of Cornwall which names "matertere mee Aliz Corbet"[156]. m ([1115/25]) SIBYL Corbet Lady of Alcester and Pontesbury, formerly mistress of HENRY I King of England, daughter of ROBERT Corbet of Alcester, co Warwick & his wife --- ([1090/95]-after 1157). The Complete Peerage deduces her parentage, relationship with King Henry, and her subsequent marriage from a charter, dated to [1163/75], of her son "Reginaldus, Henrici Regis filius, comes Cornubiæ" by which he granted property to "Willielmo de Boterell, filio Aliziæ Corbet, materteræ meæ" which he had granted to "Willielmo de Boterells in Cornubia, patri…predicti Willielmi" on his marriage, witnessed by "Nicholao filio meo…Herberto filio Herberti, Baldwino et Ricardo nepotibus meis, Willelmo de Vernun, Willielmo fratre meo…Hugone de Dunstanvill…"[157]. The [1125/35] birth date range estimated for her son Herbert, born from this marriage, suggests that she married after her relationship with the king. The Pipe Roll of 1157 records a payment to "the mother of Earl Reginald" from an estate at Mienes, Sussex[158]. Herbert & his wife had [four] children:

(a) ROBERT FitzHerbert (-before 1165). Henry II King of England restored properties of "Roberto filio Hereberti Camerarii", held by "pater suus vel avus suus", by charter dated to [Feb/Mar] 1155, witnessed by "…Rainaldo comite Cornubie…Johanne Marescallo"[159]. Chamberlain of King Henry II. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Robertus filius Herberti v m ii milites et dimidium" in Wiltshire in [1160/61] and [1161/62][160].

(b) HERBERT FitzHerbert [II] ([1125/35]-before 18 Jul 1204). “Willelmus filius Hugonis de Bridssale” donated property “de feudo Herberti filii Herberti” to Watton convent by charter dated to [1175/95][161]. His birth date range is estimated based on the latest birth date of his wife, bearing in mind the probable date of birth of his half-brother Renaud Earl of Cornwall and his own date of death.

- see below.

(c) HENRY FitzHerbert (-after 1171). The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Henricus filius Herberti v m ii milites et dimidium" in Wiltshire in [1160/61][162]. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Henricus filius Herberti xx s" in Wiltshire in [1171/72][163].

(d) [WILLIAM (-after 1187). "…Herberto filio Herberti…Willielmo fratre meo…" subscribed the charter, dated to [1163/75], under which "Reginaldus, Henrici Regis filius, comes Cornubiæ" granted property to "Willielmo de Boterell, filio Aliziæ Corbet, materteræ meæ" which he had granted to "Willielmo de Boterells in Cornubia, patri…predicti Willielmi" on his marriage[164]. Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record that "Willelmus frater comitis Reginaldi" held half of one knight´s fee from "Roberti filii Regis" in Devon[165]. Benedict of Peterborough records that Henry II King of England granted the kingdom of Limerick to "Hereberti filio Hereberti, et Willelmo fratri comitis Reginaldi, et Joellano de la Pumerai nepoti eorum" at a council in Oxford in May 1177, but that "Herbertus et Willelmus, fratres Reginaldi comitis Cornubiæ, et Joellanus de Pumeria nepos eorum" declined it at a council at Marlborough 3 Jun 1177[166]. None of the primary sources so far consulted conclusively indicates whether William was the full brother of Earl Renaud or his half-brother by their mother´s marriage to Herbert FitzHerbert. However, the order in which the individuals are named in the documents quoted above suggests that William was younger than Herbert, in which case it is more likely that he was the uterine brother of the earl. The question has been confused by the possible co-identity between William, brother of Earl Renaud, and Willliam brother of Sibyl Queen of Scotland. However, as discussed above, the chronology is unfavourable for this co-identity to be correct. Henry II King of England confirmed the possessions of the abbey of la Trinité de Caen, including the donation by "Willelmi filii Herberti" of "decimam…in Willun", by charter dated to [1180/82][167]. m ALICE, daughter of ---. "Willelmus de Marisco frater Reginaldi comitis Cornubie" names his wife Alice in a charter[168].]

(e) [ROHESE (-1176). The parentage of Rohese is uncertain. Renaud Earl of Cornwall granted Roseworthy manor in Cornwall to his sister "Rohesia de Pomeria" in a charter[169]. The wife of Henry de la Pomerai was either Rohese, illegitimate daughter of Henry I King of England & his mistress Sibyl Corbet, or Sibyl´s daughter by her husband Herbert FitzHerbert. m HENRY de la Pomerai, son of JOSCELIN de la Pomerai & his wife Emma --- (-[1156/64]).

ii) WILLIAM FitzHerbert (-8 Jun 1154). The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Willo fil Herb" in Wiltshire[170]. Stephen King of England granted property "ecclesiam de Wiverthorpe, ecclesiam de Laudesbrough et ecclesiam de Clera", held by "Herberti fratris eius", to "Willielmus thesaurarius Eborum, capellanus meus"[171]. Archbishop of York 1143-1153. Bishop of Durham 1153-1154.

iii) daughter . The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Robt de Venuiz…p filia Herbt Camer cu dote sua" in Hampshire[172]. m ROBERT de Venuiz, son of ---.

iv) daughter . The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Wills Croc…p filia Herb Camer cu maritag suo" in Berkshire[173]. Her parentage and marriage are deduced from the Pipe Roll of 1130[174]. m WILLIAM Croc, son of ---.

Herbert & his second wife had one child:

v) STEPHEN FitzHerbert (-after 1190). “Stephanus filius Herberti camerarii regis Stephani” confirmed a donation to St Mary, Thornton by charter dated to [1154/70][175]. Chamberlain of Malcolm IV King of Scotland: "Stephanus filius Hereberti camerarii regis Scotie" confirmed a donation to Kirkstead abbey by "Gregorius" by charter dated 31 Jan 1160[176]. "…Stephano filio camerarii" witnessed the charter dated 1163 under which "[Rodbertus] Marmiun" donated land in Roughton to Kirkstead abbey[177]. “Stephanus filius Herberti camerarii” made a return of knights´ fees dated 1166[178]. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Stephanus filius Herberti Camerarii xvi s vii d" in Yorkshire in [1167/68][179]. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Stephanus filius Herberti xxiv s iv d, de novo xx s" in Yorkshire in [1171/72][180]. The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1190/91], records "Stephanus filius Herberti" paying "xi s viii d" in Yorkshire[181]. m ---. The name of Stephen´s wife is not known. Stephen & his wife had [five] children:

(a) RALPH FitzStephen (-before 1 Feb 1222). His parentage is confirmed by the Rotuli de Dominabus of 1185 which refers to “uxoris Radulfi filii Stephani, Cambellani domini regis…”, adding that the land held by her mother was “de baronia Radulfi filii Stephani”[182]. "…Radulfo filio Stephano camerario et Eustachio fratre suo" subscribed the charter dated to [Dec 1175/Mar 1182] under which Henry II King of England confirmed property granted to "Alexandro de Barentin" by "Ricardi Pictaviensis archidiaconi et Herberti filii sui"[183]. The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1190/91], records "Radulphus filius Stephani" paying "x s, i militem" in Gloucestershire[184]. The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1194/95], names "Radulfi filius Stephani" paying "xx s, i militem" in Gloucestershire[185]. The Red Book of the Exchequer records "Radulfus filius Stephani" holding half of one knight´s fee in "Stevening" in Lincolnshire in [1210/12][186]. m firstly ---. The name of Ralph´s wife is not known. m secondly (1185) as her second husband, MATILDA de Caux, widow of ADAM FitzPeter Lord of Birkyn, daughter of ROBERT de Caux & his wife --- Basset (-1224). Her parentage is confirmed by the Rotuli de Dominabus of 1185 which records “terra eius in Riscinton” held by “uxor que fuit Roberti de Caux et mater uxoris Radulfi filii Stephani, Cambellani domini regis, filia Ricardi Basset et soror Willelmi Basset…L annorum et amplius”, adding that the land was “de baronia Radulfi filii Stephani”[187]. The primary source which confirms her name has not yet been identified. Ralph & his first wife had one child:

(1) RALPH (-[1 Feb 1222/1225]). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.

(b) EUSTACHE . "…Radulfo filio Stephano camerario et Eustachio fratre suo" subscribed the charter dated to [Dec 1175/Mar 1182] under which Henry II King of England confirmed property granted to "Alexandro de Barentin" by "Ricardi Pictaviensis archidiaconi et Herberti filii sui"[188].

(c) ROBERT . "Robertus filius Stephani camerarii" confirmed a donation to Kirkstead abbey of property in Swinethorpe by charter dated to the late 12th century witnessed by "…Roberto filio Roberti de Tatersala…"[189].

(d) [HUGH FitzStephen (-after 1190). The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1190/91], records "Hugo filius Stephani" paying "x s… i militem" in Essex, Hertfordshire[190].]

(e) [HUBERT FitzStephen (-after 1194). The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1194/95], records "Hubertus filius Stephani, camer[arii]" paying "xxiii s iv d" in Yorkshire[191].]

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Herbert "the Chamberlain" was of unproven ancestry. He is said to be the great-grandson of Herbert, Comte de Vermandois, the lineal descendant of Charlemagne.

He held lands in 1086 at Hampshire, Englandl he acquired more lands in Bedfordshire, Hampshire, Gloucester, and Yorkshire.

He was Chamberlain and Treasurer under Kings William II and Henry I between 1098 and 1130.

Herbert died before 1130.

See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p363.htm#i8064 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )

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