Heribert III "le Vieux", Comte d'Omois, Comte de Meaux et Troyes

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Herbert III "Ie Vieux" de Vermandois, Comte d'Omois, Comte de Meaux et Troyes

Birthdate:
Birthplace: Vermandois (present Picardie), France
Death: Died in Château-Thierry, County of Omois?/Château-Thierry (Present département de l'Aisne), Vermandois (present Picardie), France
Place of Burial: Lagny-sur-Marne, (Present département de Seine-et-Marne), (Present Région Ile-de-France), France
Immediate Family:

Son of Herbert II, comte de Vermandois and Adèle de France
Husband of Ēadgifu Ogive of Wessex, Queen of France
Father of Herbert III and Agnes de Vermandois
Brother of Robert of Vermandois; Adelaide, Alice, Alix, countess of Vermandois; Eudes, count of Vienne & Amiens; Reinaldo de Roucy; Albert I, comte de Vermandois and 6 others

Occupation: Comte d'Omois (927-993), COUNT
Managed by: Pam Wilson
Last Updated:

About Heribert III "le Vieux", Comte d'Omois, Comte de Meaux et Troyes

CURATOR NOTE: Son of Heribert II Comte de Vermandois and Adela Capet de Neustria (de France). NOT THE SAME AS Heribert III Comte de Vermandois (who was son of Adalbert & Gerberge). PLEASE DO NOT MERGE THEM TOGETHER.

According to the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on Northern France (covering his birth family):

HERIBERT [III] "le Vieux" ([910/26]-[983/early 985], bur Lagny)

  • son of Heribert II and his wife Adela Capet de Neustria (France)
  • Flodoard names "Heriberti Adalberti fratris" when recording his marriage, and in a later passage "nepotes Hugonis, Heribertus et Rotbertus"[1306].
  • his date of birth has been estimated at [910/15] by Werner[1307], whereas Settipani supports a later estimate of [925/26][1308]. The former appears more consistent with Héribert's participation in his father's war from 938. If the latter is correct, comte Héribert would have been more than 20 years younger than his wife, which seems unlikely. There appears to be no basis for deciding between one or the other.
  • He is documented with his father between 938 and 942 in the latter's war against King Louis IV, submitting to the king with his father in 942.
  • Under the division of territories organised after his father's death in 943, Héribert became Comte d'Omois and received the fortress of Château-Thierry as well as the abbey of Saint-Médard, Soissons.
  • King Lothaire appointed him comte du palais (comte palatin).
  • He succeeded his brother Robert in 967 as Comte de Meaux et de Troyes.
  • His proposed death date range in [983/early 985] is estimated on the following basis. A letter of Gerbert dated 983 records that "Heriberti Trecassini et Oddonis comitis filii Tedbaldi" were enemies of "Adelbero Remonis archiepiscopus"[1309]. However, a letter dated to Apr 985 names "Ottonis et Heriberti", while a letter dated to mid-985 records that "Ottonem, Heribertum" made peace with the archbishop[1310]. Another letter of Gerbert dated to [late 986/early 987] records that "O et Heribertus comites" were part of the council of Emma Queen of France[1311]. It is assumed that "Oddonis/Ottonem/O" all refer to the same person. However, it is suggested that only the first letter applies to Héribert [III], the change to Héribert [V] (nephew and successor of Héribert [III], son of the latter's brother Robert) being indicated in the subsequent letters by "Heribertum" being named after "Ottonem" instead of before, which suggests that he was the junior of the two from Apr 985.
  • The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines records the burial of "comes Trecensis Heribertus II cognomento Vetulus" in "abbatiam Latiniaci"[1312].
  • m (951) as her second husband, EADGIFU, widow of CHARLES III "le Simple" King of the Franks, daughter of EDWARD I King of Wessex & his second wife Ælfleda --- ([902/05][1313]-26 Sep after 951, bur Abbaye de Saint-Médard de Soissons).
  • Flodoard names "Ottogeba regina, mater Ludowici regis" when recording her second marriage[1314].

----------------------- From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on England Anglo-Saxon Danish Kings (covering his wife - he apparently had no children): http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLAND,%20AngloSaxon%20&%20Danish%20Kings.htm#Eadgifudiedafter951

EADWEARD, son of ALFRED King of Wessex & his wife Ealhswith ([872]-Farndon-on-Dee near Chester 17 Jul 924, bur Winchester Cathedral[1622]).

m firstly ([892/94]) ECGWYNN, daughter of --- (-[901/02]).

m secondly (901 or before) ÆLFLÆD, daughter of ealdorman ÆTHELHELM & his wife Ælswitha --- (-920, bur Winchester Cathedral[1635]). "Elffled coniux regis" subscribed a 901 charter of King Edward[1636]. The Book of Hyde names "Elfelmi comitis filia Elfleda" as first wife of King Eadweard[1637]. Roger of Wendover calls her "secunda regina sua…Alfleda, Elfelmi comitis filia"[1638].

m thirdly (920) EADGIFU, daughter of SIGEHELM Lord of Meopham, Cooling and Lenham in Kent & his wife --- (-26 Aug 968, bur Canterbury Cathedral).

King Edward "the Elder" & his second wife had [eight] children:

6. EADGIFU ([902/05]-26 Sep after 951, bur Abbaye de Saint-Médard de Soissons).

William of Malmesbury names (in order) "Edfleda, Edgiva, Ethelhilda, Ethilda, Edgitha, Elfgiva" as the six daughters of King Eadweard & his wife "Elfleda", specifying that Edgiva married "king Charles"[1662]. The Book of Hyde names "Edgivam" as second of the six daughters of King Eadweard by his first wife "Elfelmi comitis filia Elfleda", specifying that she married "Karolo regi Francorum filio Lodowyci"[1663].

Her birth date range is estimated from the birth of Eadgifu's son in [920/21]. If this is correct, Eadgifu must have been one of King Edward's oldest children by his second marriage.

She fled with her two-year-old son to England in 923 after her first husband was deposed. She returned to France in 936.

Abbess of Notre Dame de Laon, resigned 951.

Flodoard names "Ottogeba regina, mater Ludowici regis" when recording her second marriage[1664].

m firstly ([917/19]) as his second wife, CHARLES III "le Simple" King of the Franks, son of LOUIS II "le Bègue" King of the West Franks & his second wife Adélaïde [d'Angoulême] (posthumously 17 Sep 879-Péronne 7 Oct 929, bur Péronne St Fursy).

m secondly (951) HERIBERT Comte "le Vieux" [de Vermandois], son of HERIBERT [II] Comte de Vermandois [Carolingian] & his wife Adela de Paris [Capet] ([910/15]-[980/984]). He succeeded his brother Robert in 967 as Comte de Meaux et de Troyes.

References:

[1662] William of Malmesbury 126, p. 110. [1663] Liber Monasterii de Hyda XIV.4, p. 112. [1664] Flodoard 951, MGH SS III, p. 401. ------------------------ From Darryl Lundy's Peerage page on Heribert III, Comte d'Omois: http://thepeerage.com/p36113.htm#i361126

Heribert III, Comte d'Omois ▼1 M, #361126, b. 927, d. between 980 and 984 Last Edited=30 May 2009

Heribert III, Comte d'Omois was born in 927. ▼1 He was the son of Heribert II, Comte de Vermandois and Liégarde de France. ▼1

He died between 980 and 984. ▼1

Heribert III, Comte d'Omois gained the title of Comte d'Omois. ▼1

Citations

1. [S130] Wikipedia, online http;//www.wikipedia.org. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia. -------------------- From the French Wikipedia article on Herbert III d'Omois: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_III_d%27Omois

Herbert III[1] de Vermandois, dit le Vieux, né entre 910 et 928, mort entre 980 et début 985, fut comte d'Omois de 943 à sa mort. Il était fils d'Herbert II, comte de Vermandois, et d'Adèle de France, fille du roi Robert Ier .

À la mort de son père[2], il reçut en partage le comté d'Omois, et contrôla rapidement la vallée de la Marne entre Meaux et Épernay après la mort de son frère Robert en 967. Face aux Ottoniens, il se rapproche du roi Lothaire qui le fait comte palatin[3] et lui octroie le comté de Reims[réf. nécessaire].

À sa mort, le roi Lothaire partagea ses domaines entre deux de ses neveux, Eudes Ier, comte de Blois, et Herbert IV le Jeune, comte de Troyes et de Meaux.

Marié fin 951, il n'avait en effet pas eu d'enfants de son épouse Edwige de Wessex. Cette dernière était la fille d'Édouard l'Ancien, roi d'Angleterre, et veuve du roi de France, Charles le Simple, que son père avait fait prisonnier et laissé mourir en prison.

Source Christian Settipani, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, vol. 1), éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993 (ISBN 2-9501509-3-4)

Notes et références

1.↑ Généalogie d'Herbert le Vieux sur le site Medieval Lands http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#Heribertdied980984

2.↑ Généalogie d'Herbert II de Vermandois, son père, sur le site Foundation for Medieval Genealogy http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#HeribertIIdied943B

3.↑ Settipani, La Préhistoire des Capétiens, p. 229 --- In English: Herbert III de Vermandois The Elder was born between 910 and 928. He died between 980 and early 985. He was the Comte d'Omois from 943 to his death. He was the son of Herbert II, Comte de Vermandois and Adela of France, daughter of King Robert I of France.

On the death of his father, Herbert III received the County of Omois (southern Aisne, arrondissement of Chateau-Thierry), and quickly took control of the valley of the Marne River between Meaux and Epernay after the death of his brother Robert in 967. Confronting the Ottonians, he sided with King Lothair, who made him a Count Palatinate and granted him the County of Rheims.

At his death, King Lothair divided his realm between two of his nephews: Eudes I Comte de Blois and Herbert IV Comte de Troyes et Meaux.

He married in late 951 to Hedwig Wessex, with whom he had no children. She was the daughter of Edward the Elder, King of England, and widow of the King of France Charles the Simple after he was captured and left to die in prison. ------------------------ From the English page on Château-Thierry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau-Thierry

Château-Thierry is a commune in northern France about 56 miles (90 km) east-northeast of Paris. It is a sub-prefecture of the Aisne department in Picardy.

History

In the late years of the western roman empire, a small town called Otmus was installed on a site where the Soissons-Troyes road crossed the Marne river.

During the 8th century, Charles Martel kept king Theuderic IV prisoner in the castle of Otmus. At this time, the town took the name of Castrum Theodorici, transformed in Château-Thierry later (Castle of Thierry, Thierry is the french or early romane langage translation of Theuderic).

In 946 the castle of Château-Thierry was the home of Herbert le-Vieux, Count of Omois (Fr: comte d'Omois) of the House of Vermandois & Soissons.[citation needed]

From the French Wikipedia page on Château-Thierry: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau-Thierry

Un comté de l'Empire carolingien

Vers le viiie siècle, Charles Martel, celui qui allait vaincre les Berbères à la bataille de Poitiers (732), vint s'installer sur la montagne des Chesneaux qui domine la vallée. Il s'y fit construire un palais et une métairie. En 721, il imagina de faire bâtir un château fort dans la dépendance immédiate du sien, sur une importante position qui dominait une chaussée romaine réparée par la reine Brunehilde. Il alla chercher dans l'abbaye de Chelles un jeune prince, fils de Dagobert III, qui portait le nom de Thierry. Couronné, ce fut Thierry IV. Voulant que ce jeune prince reste étranger au gouvernement du royaume, il le confina dans la forteresse. Ce fut l'origine de la ville qui s'étendit sur l'emplacement actuel des Vaucrises. Thierry IV mourut en 737, à l'âge de 23 ans.

Ayant succédé à son père Charles Martel, mort en 741 à Quierzy-sur-Oise, Pépin le Bref fut oint en 754 par le pape Étienne II, dans la basilique de Saint-Denis. Le pape, qui avait besoin d'un appui militaire contre ses voisins, accepta de légitimer alors un changement de dynastie : aux Mérovingiens succédèrent alors les Carolingiens. En 877, le comté de Château-Thierry, créé sous Charlemagne, est donné par Louis le Bègue à Herbert de Vermandois. Entre 923 et 927, Herbert II de Vermandois y retient captif le roi Charles le simple. Après la mort de ce dernir à Péronne la ville est prise et reprise successivement par Raoul et Herbert II qui en obtient la possesion définitive en 938.

Un fief des comtes de Champagne

Au milieu du Xe siècle le comte de Troyes attribue le fief de Château-Thierry à un certain Thierry qui s'applique, avec ses descendants qui gardent ce fief jusqu'à la fin du XIe siècle, à restaurer la forteresse. Au XIIe siècle celui ci passe dans le domaine des comtes de Champagne. Thibault le Grand y fait reculer le cours de la Marne, entoure la ville de murailles et assure sa défense par la construction du fort Saint-Jacques. Il serait aussi le fondateur de l'église paroissiale de saint Martin. La guerre qui l'oppose au roi Louis VII cause la dévastation des campagnes autour de la ville par les troupes royales. En 1210, Blanche de Navarre, veuve de Thibault III de Champagne y fonde l'hôpital de la Barre qui devient très vite un abbaye cistercienne féminine.

In English:

A County in the Carolingian Empire

Through the 8th century, Charles Martel, who would defeat the Moores in the Battle of Poitiers (732), settled in the mountains overlooking the Chesneaux valley. He built a palace and a farm there. In 721, he was inspired to build a castle in the immediate vicinity on an important position commanding a Roman road that had been maintained by Queen Brunhild. He saw at the Abbey of Chelles a son of Dagobert III, who was named Thierry. When crowned, he would become Thierry IV. Wishing to keep this young prince from taking part in the government of the kingdom, he confined him to this new fortress. This gave start to the town that is currently located at Vaucrises. Thierry IV died in 737 at the age of 23.

Having succeeded his father, Charles Martel died in 741 at Quierzy-sur-Oise. Pepin the Short was anointed in 754 by Pope Stephen II in the Basilica St-Denis. The pope, who needed military support against his neighbors, agreed to legitimize the new dynasty: the Merovingians were then succeeded by the Carolingians. In 877, the County of Chateau-Thierry, established under Charlemagne, was given by Louis "le Begue" to Herbert de Vermandois. Between 923 and 927, Heribert II of Vermandois held captive there King Charles the Simple. After Charles' death, the town was successively taken and retaken by Raoul and Heribert II, the latter of whom took final possession of it in 938.

A Fief of the Counts of Champagne

In the middle of the 10th century, the Count of Troyes, attributing the stronghold of Château-Thierry to a certain Thierry who sought along with his descendants to keep possession of the castle until the end of the 11th century, restored the fortress. In the 12th century, the area passed to the Counts of Champagne. Thibault the Great changed the course of the Marne River and built walls surrounding the town, provoiding for its defense with the construction of Fortress St-Jacques. He also founded the parish church of St-Martin. The war against King Louis VII involved devastating campaigns around the town by royal troops. in 1210, Blanche de Navarre, widow of Thibault III de Champagne, founded a hospital that quickly became a Cistercian convent.

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Heribert III "le Vieux", Comte d'Omois, Comte de Meaux et Troyes's Timeline

915
915
Vermandois (present Picardie), France
951
951
Age 36
995
December 28, 995
Age 81
Château-Thierry, County of Omois?/Château-Thierry (Present département de l'Aisne), Vermandois (present Picardie), France
1931
October 17, 1931
Age 80
1933
March 9, 1933
Age 80
????
????
????
Lagny-sur-Marne, (Present département de Seine-et-Marne), (Present Région Ile-de-France), France