Ida de Tosny, Countess of Norfolk (Royal Mistress of Henry II)

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Ida de Toëny (de Tosny), Countess of Norfolk

Nicknames: "Ida de Toesny. Ida de Toeni", "mistress of King Henry II - produced William"
Birthdate:
Birthplace: Norfolk, Norfolk, England
Death: Died in Framlingham, Norfolk, England
Immediate Family:

Daughter of Ralph de Toeni, V, Lord of Flamstead and Margaret de Beaumont
Wife of Roger le Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk
Partner of Henry II, King of England
Mother of Hugh Bigod, 3rd Earl of Norfolk; Margaret "de Hastings" le Bigod; William Bigod; Mary Margaret "Margery" FitzRobert (Bigod); Thomas Le Bigod and 6 others
Sister of Sir Roger de Toeni IV, Lord of Flamstead, Knight de Conches

Occupation: Mistress to Henry II, was mistress to Henry III Plantagenet before marriage, and mother of William "Longsword" Plantagenet
Managed by: Christian Aaron PERKS
Last Updated:

About Ida de Toëny (de Tosny), Countess of Norfolk

The correct name of this person is Ida de Toëny, Countess of Norfolk (de Tosny), NOT Ida (Isabel) Plantagenet. She was married to Roger Bigod and was the mistress of King Henry II of England.

from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_de_Tosny

Ida de Tosny, Countess of Norfolk was very likely a daughter of Ralph V de Tosny (died 1162) and his wife Margaret (born circa 1125 and living in 1185), a daughter of Robert de Beaumont, 2nd Earl of Leicester. [1]

Relationship to Henry II

Ida de Tosny was a royal ward and mistress of King Henry II, by whom she was mother of one of his illegitimate sons - William Longespée, 3rd Earl of Salisbury, (b c. 1176-March 7, 1226). For many years, until the discovery of a charter of William mentioning "Comitissa Ida, mater mea" (engl. "Countess Ida, my mother",[2] it was assumed that Rosamund Clifford, a previous mistress of Henry's, was the mother, but painstaking genealogical detective work [3] has since shown otherwise. Ida was not the first English royal ward to be taken as mistress by a King who was her guardian; that honour probably belongs to Isabel de Beaumont (Elizabeth de Beaumont), daughter of Robert de Beaumont, who fought at the Battle of Hastings with the Conqueror. That king's youngest son made Beaumont's daughter his mistress.[4]

Marriage

Around Christmas 1181, Ida de Tosny was given in marriage to Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk by Henry II, together with the manors of Acle, Halvergate and South Walsham, which had been confiscated from his inheritance after his father's death (Hugh Bigod, 1st Earl of Norfolk).[5] Ida and Roger had a number of children including:

  • Hugh Bigod, 3rd Earl of Norfolk who married in 1206/ 1207, Maud Marshal, a daughter of William Marshal
  • William Bigod
  • Ralph Bigod
  • Roger Bigod
  • Margery, married William de Hastings
  • Mary Bigod, married Ralph fitz Robert

Many historians, including Marc Morris have speculated that the couple had a third daughter, Alice, who married Aubrey de Vere IV, 2nd Earl of Oxford as his second wife. If so, the marriage would have been well within the bounds of consanguinity, for the couple would have been quite closely related, a daughter of the second earl of Norfolk being first cousin once removed to the second earl of Oxford.

Ida de Tosney in fiction

Ida de Tosny and her husband Roger are the main characters in Elizabeth Chadwick's The Time of Singing (Sphere, 2008), published in the USA as For the King's Favor. They appear as minor characters in other of her books set at the same time, notably To Defy a King, which concerns the marriage of their son Hugh to Maud, a daughter of William Marshal

References

  1. ^ Marc Morris: The Bigod Earls of Norfolk in the Thirteenth Century, Woodbridge, Suffolk, 2005, page 2)
  2. ^ Bradenstoke Cartulary, 1979
  3. ^ Chadwick, Elizabeth. The Time Of Singing (2008)
  4. ^ Marc Morris [The Bigod Earls of Norfolk in the thirteenth century (2005), p. 2]
  5. ^ Marc Morris [The Bigod Earls of Norfolk in the thirteenth century (2005), p. 2]
This article incorporates text from a publication now in the public domain: Chisholm, Hugh, ed. (1911). Encyclopædia Britannica (11th ed.). Cambridge University Press

-----------------------------

Apparently Henry "gave" Ida, along with several landholdings, to Roger Bigod. Marc Morris [The Bigod Earls of Norfolk in the thirteenth century (2005), p. 2], cites evidence that Roger's wife was Ida de Tosny, and that she was given to him in marriage by Henry II, together with the manors of Acle, Halvergate and South Walsham, which had been confiscated after his father's death. As Roger had been holding them for three-quarters of a year at Michaelmas 1182, Morris dates the marriage to around Christmas 1181 [citing Rotuli Hundredorum, vol. 1, pp. 504, 537; Pipe Roll 23 Henry II, pp. 125, 137; Pipe Roll 24 Henry II, pp. 26-7; Pipe Roll 28 Henry II, p. 64].

So Ida became the wife of Magna Charta Surety Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk. (See Douglas Richardson: Plantagenet Ancestry, Baltimore, 2004, pages 456 – 457 and Marc Morris: The Bigod Earls of Norfolk in the Thirteenth Century, Woodbridge, Suffolk, 2005, page 2)

The Liber Vitæ of Durham, f. 63d, lists the children of Roger and Ida as Hugh, William, Roger, John, Ralph, Mary, Margaret and Ida [Surtees Society, vol. 136 (1923)].

Sources: http://www.robertsewell.ca/henryii.html, http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/norfolk.shtml#p589

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p57.htm#i6922

Countess Ida de Tosny1,2

b. circa 1155

Countess Ida de Tosny|b. c 1155|p57.htm#i6922|seigneur de Conches Roger III de Tosny|b. c 1104\nd. bt 1157 - 1162|p370.htm#i23960|Gertrud de Hainaut|b. c 1108?|p212.htm#i23959|Radulf I. de Tosny|b. c 1078\nd. c 1126|p362.htm#i6999|Alice of Huntingdon|b. c 1072?|p57.htm#i7000|Baudouin I., comte de Hainaut|b. c 1087\nd. 1120|p360.htm#i5354|Jolanda van Wassenberg|b. 1089|p45.htm#i5355|

Father seigneur de Conches Roger III de Tosny2 b. circa 1104, d. between 1157 and 1162

Mother Gertrud de Hainaut2 b. circa 1108?

    Countess Ida de Tosny was mistress of King Henry II, by whom she is ancestress to the important Longespee family, and wife of Roger Bigod, Earl of Norfolk, by whom she is the ancestress of the later Bigod, Neville and Hastings families.2 Also called Ida de Thouy.3 She was related to Ralph fitz Randolph, Lord of Middleham; grandchild of Countess Ida.2 Countess Ida de Tosny was related to Hugh le Bigod, Chief Justiciar of England; grandchild of Countess Ida.2 Countess Ida de Tosny was born circa 1155.4 She was the daughter of seigneur de Conches Roger III de Tosny and Gertrud de Hainaut.2 Countess Ida de Tosny associated with Henri II "Courtmanteau", roi d' Angleterre, son of Geoffroy V "Plantagenêt", comte d'Anjou and Matilda "le Impératrice", reine d' Angleterre; A mistress. Countess Ida de Tosny married Roger le Bigod the Surety, Earl of Norfolk and Suffolk, son of Hugh le Bigod, 1st Earl of Norfolk and Juliane de Vere, Countess of Norfolk, before 1184.5

Family 1

Henri II "Courtmanteau", roi d' Angleterre b. 5 March 1133, d. 6 July 1189

Child

   * William Longespée, 3rd Earl of Salisbury+ b. bt 1170 - 1175, d. 7 Mar 12261

Family 2

Roger le Bigod the Surety, Earl of Norfolk and Suffolk b. circa 1150, d. 1220

Children

   * Mary Bigod+ b. c 11846
   * Margery Bigod+ b. c 11856
   * Hugh le Bigod the Surety, 3rd Earl of Norfolk and Suffolk+ b. c 1186, d. Feb 12457,6
   * Adeliza Bigod b. c 11876
   * William Bigod b. c 11876

Citations

  1. [S960] Ancestry G. W. Bush, online http://www.wargs.com/political/bush.html
  2. [S1194] Douglas Richardson (e-mail address), Countess Ida Bigod - A Search for Answers in "Countess Ida Bigod," newsgroup message 2002-04-06 13:07:36 PST.
  3. [S1194] Douglas Richardson (e-mail address), Countess Ida Bigod - A Search for Answers in "Countess Ida Bigod," newsgroup message 2002-04-06 13:07:36 PST, Reference: NEHGR, 10 (1856): 262, presumably this information came from an unpublished Bigod charter seen while researching in England. The name "Thouy" is recognizable immediately as the important Tony family, which family frequently spelled their name in this period with an "h" following the T..
  4. [S1194] Douglas Richardson (e-mail address), Countess Ida Bigod - A Search for Answers in "Countess Ida Bigod," newsgroup message 2002-04-06 13:07:36 PST, approximately 1155.
  5. [S1194] Douglas Richardson (e-mail address), Countess Ida Bigod - A Search for Answers in "Countess Ida Bigod," newsgroup message 2002-04-06 13:07:36 PST, Reference: NEHGR, 10 (1856): 262, presumably this information came from an unpublished Bigod charter seen while researching in England.
  6. [S603] C.B., LL.D., Ulster King of Arms Sir Bernard Burke, B:xP, pg. 53.
  7. [S305] John S. Wurts, Magna Charta.

--------------------

Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Around Christmas 1181 Roger married Ida de Tosny[1], a former mistress of King Henry II, and by her had a number of children including:

  • Hugh
  • William Bigod
  • Roger Bigod
  • John Bigod
  • Ralph Bigod
  • Margaret Bigod
  • Mary Bigod
  • Ida Bigod

--------------------

William Longespée, 3rd Earl of Salisbury

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was an illegitimate son of Henry II of England. His mother was unknown for many years, until the discovery of a charter of William mentioning "Comitissa Ida, mater mea" (engl. "Countess Ida, my mother")[2] [3]

This Ida was further identified as the wife of Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk [4].

King Henry acknowledged William as his son and gave him the Honour of Appleby, Lincolnshire in 1188. Ten years later, his half-brother, King Richard I, married him to a great heiress, Ela, countess of Salisbury in her own right, and daughter of William of Salisbury, 2nd Earl of Salisbury.

--------------------

Countess Ida de Tosny was mistress of King Henry II, by whom she is ancestress to the important Longespee family. She also became the wife of our ancestor Roger Bigod, Earl of Norfolk, by whom she is the ancestress of the later Bigod, Neville and Hastings families.

Ida was also called Ida de Thouy.

She married Roger le Bigod the Surety, Earl of Norfolk and Suffolk, son of Hugh le Bigod, 1st Earl of Norfolk, and Juliane de Vere, Countess of Norfolk, before 1184.

Ida was our ancestor through two distinct descent lines--through her son William and through her daughter Margery, each of whom was independently our ancestor.

See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p57.htm#i6922 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm ) -------------------- Relationship to Henry II

Ida de Tosny was a royal ward and mistress of King Henry II, by whom she was mother of one of his illegitimate sons - William Longespée, 3rd Earl of Salisbury, (b c. 1176-March 7, 1226). For many years, until the discovery of a charter of William mentioning "Comitissa Ida, mater mea" (engl. "Countess Ida, my mother",[2] it was assumed that Rosamund Clifford, a previous mistress of Henry's, was the mother, but painstaking genealogical detective work [3] has since shown otherwise. Ida was not the first English royal ward to be taken as mistress by a King who was her guardian; that honour probably belongs to Isabel de Beaumont (Elizabeth de Beaumont), daughter of Robert de Beaumont, who fought at the Battle of Hastings with the Conqueror. That king's youngest son made Beaumont's daughter his mistress.[4] [edit]Marriage

Around Christmas 1181, Ida de Tosny was given in marriage to Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk by Henry II, together with the manors of Acle, Halvergate and South Walsham, which had been confiscated from his inheritance after his father's death (Hugh Bigod, 1st Earl of Norfolk).[5] Ida and Roger had a number of children including: Hugh Bigod, 3rd Earl of Norfolk who married in 1206/ 1207, Maud Marshal, a daughter of William Marshal William Bigod Ralph Bigod Roger Bigod Margery, married William de Hastings Mary Bigod, married Ralph fitz Robert Many historians, including Marc Morris have speculated that the couple had a third daughter, Alice, who married Aubrey de Vere IV, 2nd Earl of Oxford as his second wife. If so, the marriage would have been well within the bounds of consanguinity, for the couple would have been quite closely related, a daughter of the second earl of Norfolk being first cousin once removed to the second earl of Oxford. -------------------- Accoording to "Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire" by Sir Bernard Burke . . . Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl , married Isabel, daughter of Hamelyn, Earl of Warrenne and Surrey, and had issue :

Hugh, his successor William, who married Margaret, daughter of Robert de Sutton Thomas Margery, who married William de Hastings Adeliza, who married Alberic de Vere, Earl of Oxford Mary, who married Ralph Fitz-Robert, Lord of Middleham.

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Ida de Tosny, Countess of Norfolk (Royal Mistress of Henry II)'s Timeline

1154
1154
Norfolk, Norfolk, England
1174
1174
Age 20
Norfolk, England
1176
1176
Age 22
Salisbury, Wiltshire, England
1185
December 1185
Age 31
England
1186
1186
Age 32
Thetford, Norfolk, England
1188
1188
Age 34
Thetford, Norfolk, England
1188
Age 34
Thetford, Norfolk, England or Framlingham, Suffolk, England
1190
1190
Age 36
Of, Thetford, Norfolk, Norfolk, England
1192
1192
Age 38
Thetford, Norfolk, England
1198
1198
Age 44
Thetford, Norfolk, England