John Carman (c.1606 - 1654)

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Birthdate:
Birthplace: Surrey, England
Death: Died in Hempstead, Nassau, New York, United States
Managed by: Phillip Dodge
Last Updated:
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Immediate Family

About John Carman

John and Florence are said to have landed with John Elliot and Robert Fordham on the ship Lyon in 1632. John and his brother in law Robert Fordham purchased land from the Indians to start a colony in Hempstead Long Island, New York. One of the original patentees of Stamford, Connecticut in 1641. In 1643, John Carman was sent with Robert Fordham to Long Island by the Reverend Richard Denton, who had tangled with the accepted belief in Weathersfield and Stamford. On Long Island, a deal was apparently easily negotiated by Carman and Fordham for the purchase of Long Island from the Indians, including Tackapousha, Sachem of Marsapeag. (This story is told in more detail in the book John Ogden, The Pilgrim.) Robert Fordham and John Carman were the heads of two of the 17 families that left Stamford to found Hempstead. Other prominent families to settle Hempstead included Denton, Raynor, Pettit, Wood, Smith, Thompson and Hicks. The treaty, made in 1643 with the Indians, was shortly after confirmed by a patent with the Dutch. This was approximately 120,000 acres of what is now the Town of Hempstead and the South Shore of Long Island.

John Carman was undoubtedly the first Englishman who settled with his family within the limits of the Town of Hempstead on Long Island. It is said that he came from the parish of Hemel-Hempstead in Hertfordshire, England in 1631 in the ship “Lyon”. The Carman line of ancestry has been traced back in England for twenty-one generations to a time previous to the Norman Conquest. As early as 1273 the family was located in Hemel-Hempstead. It is also suspected that the lineage of the Carman family traces to Hertsfordshire and Surrey in England back to 1042 A.D. where John Carman was holding a Lordship in Surrey and in 1085-86 the same man is recorded in Doomsday book.

Timeline

1632, March 4. John Carman took the Freeman’s Oath at Boston.

1633, July 8. His son John was born.

1634. Benjamin Coe, born 1629, who afterward married Abigail Carman, came to America with his father Robert. Both father and son were among the original proprietors of Hempstead.

1635, July. His only daughter Abigail was born.

1639, March. His son Caleb was born but died young.

1640. The Colony at New Haven had in 1640 by their agent purchased “Rippowams of the Indians”, etc.

1643. A committee was sent from Stamford to Long Island who succeeded in making a purchase of land from the Aborigine natives.

1643, Nov 13. Is the date of the deed from the Indians to Carman and Fordham of their southern portion of the land, which in the following year was described in the charter of Gov. Kieft {give description from Indian deed].

1643. Doubtless John Carman, with at least a part of his family and his brother-in law Rev Robert Fordham made his home at this time on Long Island, on the easterly part of the land deeded to them by the Indians. Thirty-four years later, July 12, 1677, his son John gave testimony that he was 44 years of age and he said that he saw his father give an axe to the one-eyed Sachem. This would prove that the son, ten years of age, was present at the time of the purchase.

1644. The charter of Gov. Kieft.

1645. Other families settle in Hempstead.

1645, Jan 9. Caleb Carman, son of John and Florence Carman, the first white child to be born in Hempstead.

1649. About this time his son Joshua was born.

1656. This is supposed to be about the date of John Carman’s death.

1661. John Carman, Caleb Carman and Benjamin Coe, who married their sister Abigail, petition to the Courts, etc.

--------------------

The John Carman who is the center of our attention here, is supposed to be born about 1606 probably in Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, England (supposed in that there is no hard proof, just family folklore) and died in Hempstead, Long Island (the English didn't seize the area from the Dutch until 1669 so prior to then it wasn't New York and Hempstead was semi-independent of New Netherlands, but occupied by permission). before 15 October 1653. He married Florence Fordham, born about 1610 and died 7 Feb 1660/61 at Jamaica, Long Island. Florence is often referred to as the daughter of Rev. Robert Fordham who John went to Long Island with and signed the treaty for the land that founded Hempstead in 1641, but she is much more likely Robert Fordham's sister.

From the church records of Roxbury, we have hard evidence that John Carman arrived in 1631; He had no children with him when he came; his first born was born in 1633; and "Florence Carman wife of John Carman" is entered into the church record in 1632 (it doesn't say in the entry whether she was arriving then by ship, which would imply they were married in England and she sailed later, or if that was married to John there in Roxbury).

From Roxbury there is mention of John Carman in Lynn, Massachusetts until 1637 when they moved to Sandwich, Massachusetts on Cape Cod. It is assumed he then left for Wallingford and then Stamford, Connecticut as that is where the band of patentees of Hempstead moved from. However, John Carman's name never appears in Stamford records. So did he really move to Stamford, or did he associate with these men by another (yet to be found) reason?

John Carman and Robert Fordham traveled to Long Island ahead of the band of pioneers as their "agents" in 1643. The deed signed with the Indians is dated 13 November 1643, so they were indeed there before the main party came over. The commemorative mural of the event that hangs in Hempstead Village Hall is probably accurate. Snow is still scarce on Long Island in November, but it is getting cool (Some artistic license was taken with the muffler to cover the face of John as no one knows what he actually looked like.) So chances are they wintered on Long Island that winter of 1644, probably on the south shore which is considerably warmer than the north and the Long Island Sound is cold and rough any time of year, and may have been around present day Merrick, Long Island where John did set up his homestead once the Town of Hempstead was established later in 1644.

John Carman died before 15 October 1653 in Hempstead, Long Island a respected and influential man of means.

Children of John and Florence (Fordham) Carman:


John Carman

Abigail Carman

Caleb Carman

Benjamin Carman - born about 1640, died about 1694

Thomas Carman

Joshua Carman


After John's death, the widow Florence Carman re-married in 1656 to John Hicks.


-------------------- Robert Coe, puritan: his ancestors and descendants, 1340-1910, with notices ... By Joseph Gardner Bartlett page 83 http://books.google.com/books?id=NWlGAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA85&dq=hempstead+town+records+ny&hl=en&ei=1pi-Tb7MMLOM0QH23-XJBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CFMQ6AEwAjhG#v=snippet&q=daniel%20searing&f=false -------------------- One of the original patentees of Stamford, Connecticut in 1641. In 1643, John Carman was sent with Robert Fordham to Long Island by the Reverend Richard Denton, who had tangled with the accepted belief in Weathersfield and Stamford.

On Long Island, a deal was apparently easily negotiated by Carman and Fordham for the purchase of Long Island from the Indians, including Tackapousha, Sachem of Marsapeag. (This story is told in more detail in the book John Ogden, The Pilgrim.) Robert Fordham and John Carman were the heads of two of the 17 families that left Stamford to found Hempstead. Other prominent families to settle Hempstead included Denton, Raynor, Pettit, Wood, Smith, Thompson and Hicks.


The treaty, made in 1643 with the Indians, was shortly after confirmed by a patent with the Dutch. This was approximately 120,000 acres of what is now the Town of Hempstead and the South Shore of Long Island.


John Carman was undoubtedly the first Englishman who settled with his family within the limits of the Town of Hempstead on Long Island. It is said that he came from the parish of Hemel-Hempstead in Hertfordshire, England in 1631 in the ship “Lyon”. The Carman line of ancestry has been traced back in England for twenty-one generations to a time previous to the Norman Conquest. As early as 1273 the family was located in Hemel-Hempstead. It is also suspected that the lineage of the Carman family traces to Hertsfordshire and Surrey in England back to 1042 A.D. where John Carman was holding a Lordship in Surrey and in 1085-86 the same man is recorded in Doomsday book.

Timeline


1632, March 4. John Carman took the Freeman’s Oath at Boston.


1633, July 8. His son John was born.


1634. Benjamin Coe, born 1629, who afterward married Abigail Carman, came to America with his father Robert. Both father and son were among the original proprietors of Hempstead.


1635, July. His only daughter Abigail was born.


1639, March. His son Caleb was born but died young.


1640. The Colony at New Haven had in 1640 by their agent purchased “Rippowams of the Indians”, etc.


1643. A committee was sent from Stamford to Long Island who succeeded in making a purchase of land from the Aborigine natives.


1643, Nov 13. Is the date of the deed from the Indians to Carman and Fordham of their southern portion of the land, which in the following year was described in the charter of Gov. Kieft {give description from Indian deed].


1643. Doubtless John Carman, with at least a part of his family and his brother-in law Rev Robert Fordham made his home at this time on Long Island, on the easterly part of the land deeded to them by the Indians. Thirty-four years later, July 12, 1677, his son John gave testimony that he was 44 years of age and he said that he saw his father give an axe to the one-eyed Sachem. This would prove that the son, ten years of age, was present at the time of the purchase.


1644. The charter of Gov. Kieft.


1645. Other families settle in Hempstead.


1645, Jan 9. Caleb Carman, son of John and Florence Carman, the first white child to be born in Hempstead.


1649. About this time his son Joshua was born.


1656. This is supposed to be about the date of John Carman’s death.


1661. John Carman, Caleb Carman and Benjamin Coe, who married their sister Abigail, petition to the Courts, etc.


--------------------


The John Carman who is the center of our attention here, is supposed to be born about 1606 probably in Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, England (supposed in that there is no hard proof, just family folklore) and died in Hempstead, Long Island (the English didn't seize the area from the Dutch until 1669 so prior to then it wasn't New York and Hempstead was semi-independent of New Netherlands, but occupied by permission). before 15 October 1653. He married Florence Fordham, born about 1610 and died 7 Feb 1660/61 at Jamaica, Long Island. Florence is often referred to as the daughter of Rev. Robert Fordham who John went to Long Island with and signed the treaty for the land that founded Hempstead in 1641, but she is much more likely Robert Fordham's sister.


From the church records of Roxbury, we have hard evidence that John Carman arrived in 1631; He had no children with him when he came; his first born was born in 1633; and "Florence Carman wife of John Carman" is entered into the church record in 1632 (it doesn't say in the entry whether she was arriving then by ship, which would imply they were married in England and she sailed later, or if that was married to John there in Roxbury).


From Roxbury there is mention of John Carman in Lynn, Massachusetts until 1637 when they moved to Sandwich, Massachusetts on Cape Cod. It is assumed he then left for Wallingford and then Stamford, Connecticut as that is where the band of patentees of Hempstead moved from. However, John Carman's name never appears in Stamford records. So did he really move to Stamford, or did he associate with these men by another (yet to be found) reason?


John Carman and Robert Fordham traveled to Long Island ahead of the band of pioneers as their "agents" in 1643. The deed signed with the Indians is dated 13 November 1643, so they were indeed there before the main party came over. The commemorative mural of the event that hangs in Hempstead Village Hall is probably accurate. Snow is still scarce on Long Island in November, but it is getting cool (Some artistic license was taken with the muffler to cover the face of John as no one knows what he actually looked like.) So chances are they wintered on Long Island that winter of 1644, probably on the south shore which is considerably warmer than the north and the Long Island Sound is cold and rough any time of year, and may have been around present day Merrick, Long Island where John did set up his homestead once the Town of Hempstead was established later in 1644.


John Carman died before 15 October 1653 in Hempstead, Long Island a respected and influential man of means.


Children of John and Florence (Fordham) Carman:


John Carman


Abigail Carman


Caleb Carman


Benjamin Carman - born about 1640, died about 1694


Thomas Carman


Joshua Carman


After John's death, the widow Florence Carman re-married in 1656 to John Hicks.

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John Carman's Timeline

1606
1606
Surrey, England
1631
1631
Age 25
Lynn, Essex, Massachusetts, USA
1634
1634
Age 28
Roxbury, Norfolk, Ma
1635
July 5, 1635
Age 29
Roxbury, Norfolk, Ma
1637
1637
Age 31
Roxbury,Norfolk,Massachusetts,USA
1639
March 1, 1639
Age 33
Hempstead, Long Island, Queens, N.y.
1646
January 9, 1646
Age 40
Hempstead, Long Island, Queens, N.y.
1646
Age 40
Hempstead L.i., Queens, Ny
1653
1653
Age 47
Hempstead, Long Island, Queens, N.y.
1654
May 28, 1654
Age 48
Hempstead, Nassau, New York, United States