Joseph Payne, I

A Patriot of the American Revolution for VIRGINIA. DAR Ancestor #: A086058

" Service Source: ABERCROMBIE & SLATTEN, VA REV PUB CLAIMS, VOL 1, P 103,116
Service Description: 1) FURNISHED SUPPLIES. He did not actually join a Regiment and fight.
Patriot in the Revolutionary War. [3]

Abt 1725. Mary Fern Souder hypothesized that Joseph was born in approximately 1725 and may be the son of Thomas Warren and Susannah Payne. [2] According to her:

"On 3 December 1724 the Grand Jury of Spotsylvania County charged two couples, :Henry Rogers and Elizabeth Fulshure and Thomas Warren and Susanna Pain with living in adultery.

[Adultery is defined as consensual sex when one (or both) of the persons is married. Thomas Warren, Sr., was born 1 January 1683 and was married to Mary Hackley. His son, Thomas Warren, Jr., born ca. 1710, was unmarried, as well as too young to have been the man charged with adultery].
"It is possible that Susanna Pain is the same person as Anne Pain who was baptized 22 September (1693) in Middlesex County, VA, daughter of Barnard Payne, Sr., and wife Elizabeth. Even if Anne Paine and Susannah Pain are not the same person, but are sisters, the December 1724 charge of adultery between Thomas Warren and Susanna Pain/Payne makes it extremely likely that the reason for DNA matches between Joseph Payne's descendants and fourteen Warrens of Spotsylvania County, VA (as of 2009), was the birth of Joseph Payne to Thomas Warren and Susanna Pain/Payne."
Goochland County, Virginia was listed as a possible birth place.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Payne-204

Profile last modified 9 Feb 2021 | Created 22 Sep 2010

Joseph Payne (1725 - abt. 1803)

Joseph "Old Joseph" Payne

Born 1725 in Spotsylvania, Virginia

Son of Thomas Warren DNA confirmed and Susannah Payne

Brother of Elizabeth (Warren) Brooks [half], Mary (Warren) Truss [half], Rachel (Warren) Askew [half], John Henry Warren [half], Roxanna (Warren) Moore [half], Thomas Warren II [half], Elizabeth (Warren) Brooks [half], Mary (Warren) Buford [half], Elizabeth (Warren) Brooks [half], Hackley Warren [half], Samuel Warren [half], Hugh Warren Sr [half] and Lancelot Warren [half]

Husband of Mary Phoebe (Offill) Payne — married 1756 in Bedford County, VA

Father of Dicey Payne, Lucy Payne, Thomas Payne, John Payne, Elizabeth Payne, Obediah Payne, Susannah (Payne) Slinker, James Payne, John Payne, Joseph Payne, Nancy (Payne) Brown and Barnett Payne

Died about 1 May 1803 in Jumping Run, Bedford County, Virginia, United States

Biography

Joseph Payne was a Virginia colonist.

Question? How is it he is KNOWN as Joseph Paine (Payne) if his mother was Susannah Payne and the FATHER is known as Thomas WARREN?? ( were they not married? and Joseph took his mother's maiden name?) ANSWER: In the 3rd paragraph down.
Birth

Abt 1740. This is the birth-year that Daughters of the American Revolution has listed, but it is only an approximation. [1]

Abt 1725. Mary Fern Souder hypothesized that Joseph was born in approximately 1725 and may be the son of Thomas Warren and Susannah Payne. [2] According to her:
"On 3 December 1724 the Grand Jury of Spotsylvania County charged two couples, :Henry Rogers and Elizabeth Fulshure and Thomas Warren and Susanna Pain with living in adultery.
[Adultery is defined as consensual sex when one (or both) of the persons is married. Thomas Warren, Sr., was born 1 January 1683 and was married to Mary Hackley. His son, Thomas Warren, Jr., born ca. 1710, was unmarried, as well as too young to have been the man charged with adultery].
"It is possible that Susanna Pain is the same person as Anne Pain who was baptized 22 September (1693) in Middlesex County, VA, daughter of Barnard Payne, Sr., and wife Elizabeth. Even if Anne Paine and Susannah Pain are not the same person, but are sisters, the December 1724 charge of adultery between Thomas Warren and Susanna Pain/Payne makes it extremely likely that the reason for DNA matches between Joseph Payne's descendants and fourteen Warrens of Spotsylvania County, VA (as of 2009), was the birth of Joseph Payne to Thomas Warren and Susanna Pain/Payne."
Goochland County, Virginia was listed as a possible birth place.

Residence

ABT 1773 Lived in Fredrick Co., MD and then moved to Bedford Co., VA

Military

" Service Source: ABERCROMBIE & SLATTEN, VA REV PUB CLAIMS, VOL 1, P 103,116
Service Description: 1) FURNISHED SUPPLIES. He did not actually join a Regiment and fight.
Patriot in the Revolutionary War. [3]

Death

1 MAY 1803 Bedford Co., VA [4]
Joseph was born in 1725. He passed away in 1803.

It is believed that Joseph was born about 1720-1725, possibly in Spotsylvania County. He was known among his descendants as "Old Joseph" to distinguish him from the other Joseph Payne's of the family. He was possibly the illegitimate son of Ann Payne and Thomas Warren. [5] He died 24 Sep 1803 in Bedford County, Virginia. [6]

It is believed he married Phoebe (last name unknown, but possibly Offill) about 1733 in Virginia. The exact number of children and the dates of their birth are a bit uncertain, but it is believed that they were as follows:

Thomas Payne was born in Virginia about 1750. Probably named after his grandfather Thomas Warren. [7]
John Payne was born in Virginia about 1754. Possibly named after his great-great grandfather John Payne. [7]
Obadiah Payne was born in Virginia about 1756. [7]
Nancy Payne was born in Virginia about 1758. [7]
Joseph Payne was born in Virginia about 1759. Probably named after his father. [7]
James Payne was born in Virginia about 1760. [7]
Lucy Payne was born in Virginia about 1765. [7]
Dicey Payne was born in Virginia about 1767. [7]
Barnett Payne was born in Virginia about 1770. Probably named after his grandfather Barnett Payne. [7]
Berry Payne was born in Virginia about 1781. [8]
Susannah Payne was born in Virginia about 1785. Probably named after mother. [7]
Joseph was 51 years of age when the Revolutionary War began. He contributed beef for the troops during war. Afterwards, on 4 January 1796, he received reparations for his contribution to the Revolutionary War effort. [9] He was also given 400 acres of land. [10]

Joseph's final will was written on 27 June 1803, and it was probated on 24 September 1803, Bedford County, Virginia, transferred and accepted in 1805 in Franklin County, Virginia.

It was contested by several of his children, overturned, and subsequently reinstated. The subject of the dispute over his will was that he apparently had a deathbed change of heart and willed all of his property to one son, James Payne, rather than the equal distribution to all of his children as he had previously mentioned. His children were mentioned in his will by name, and except for James, each received just one dollar. James received the bulk of the estate. Joseph's wife Phoebe was not mentioned in his will, so she probably preceded him in death.

Descendants of Joseph Payne are eligible for DAR Membership, National No. 687807, on the basis of this patriotic service. The ages of Old Joseph's sons is indictive of their having served in the war also; however, John and Joseph Jr. are the only ones for whom service has been proven.

Transcription of Old Joseph Payne Will [11][12]

In the name of God, Amen. I, Joseph Payne, of Bedford County and State of Virginia, being weak of body but of sound and perfect mind and memory, blessed be an Almighty God for the same, do make and publish this my last will and testament in the manner and form following, that is to say : First, I bequeth to my sons Thomas Payne, Joseph Payne, John Payne, Obediah Payne, James Payne and Bartlett Payne, the sum of One Dollar a piece. I also give and bequeth to my daughters, Lucy Stanley, Betsey Crabtee, Susannah Slinker, Nancy Brown, Dicey Brown, married women, the sum of One Dollar a piece, which said legacies or sums of money, I will and order shall be paid to the respective legacies within six months of my decease. I further give and devise to my said son, James Payne, his heirs, and assigns, all the land I possess, situated lying and being in the county aforesaid on the waters of Stanton River, forever and with all and every of its appearances with all my personal estate, livestock, goods, and chattles of what kind and nature soever, and I do hereby appoint my said son, James Payne sole executor to this my last will and testament, hereby reviking all forms and wills by me made. In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal this twenty seventh day of June in the year of our Lord one thousand eighteen hundred and three. Joseph Johnson Jesse Johnson Edward B ( X mark ) David Anderson James Johnson Joseph Payne ( his X mark )

From the Court Proceedings of His Will [13]

Joseph supposedly did not believe in writing wills, because his oldest friend, Micajah Walker, said: "I was raised from a chiold with Joseph Payne and I have heard him say that he wood never will anything to his son James and he said that after he was dead the children might fight it out." Sept. the 24th 1803 Micajah X Walker The day above written Micajah Walker came before me a Justice of the Peace for Bedford County and made solemn affirmation to the above. Joseph Stith Other people, such as John Woodcock, also believed the will to be invalid. His statement reads: "I John Woodcock of Franklin County now in Bedford County came to old Joseph Paynes to tralk with him respecting making a will and to leave his son James some more than the rest of the children because James had had the trouble of him in his sickness and the old man answered and said he would make no will, that his children would all come in for one equal part."

Millie Slinker's statement goes even further by saying : "I Milly Slinker of Bedford County having been living with Joseph Payne seven or eight years and do not believe that the old man had the full exercise of his reason during the last illness - one day in the time of his illness I heard his son Barnard Payne read a note of hand to him understand it and I know what it was he was reading to him and that Barnard could not make him understand it and I frequently heard the old man say with an oath that he would never make a will not withstanding his son James and old James Johnson had often persuaded him to make one, for he chose his children all to have an equal part of his estate for that James was not so good to his mother that he should will it all to him."

John Martin confirmed her feelings : "I John Martin of Bedford County was frequently with Joseph Payne in his last illness for the purpose of nursing and waiting on the old man and do not believe that he was in his proper and full understanding during the time I waited which was till his death as often as once or twice a week and sometimes oftener both before and after he made his will. In this time I frequently observed the old man as in the art of rubbing tobacco and then filling his pipe when he had neither pipe nor tobacco in his hand." In Book 13, page 79 of Bedford County, Virginia, we see that the court agreed on Fe. 27, 1804 that Joseph was "not of sound disposing mind and memory and that there was apparent fraud and that the said will ought not to be admitted to record."

The District Court, however, on 16th April 1805 said : "The court having maturely considered the evidence and arguments of counsels are of ther opinion that the order aforesaid is erroneous. Therefore it is considered that the same be reversed and annulled and that the appellant recover against the appellees his cost by him expended in the prosecution of his appeal aforesaid here. "

So, James got the land plus the rest of the estate, which was itemized and appraised at 34 pounds, 15 shillings, and 6 farthings. This included 5 cows and calves, 2 heiffers, and 3 bulls, in addition to farm implements and household furniture. The testimony of Millie Slinker mentions "Barnard"[14] Payne. This is most likely a transcription error, as Joseph had a son named Barnett, but no Barnards are in the family or the area. Barnett is a recurring first name for Payne men. By the time "Old Joseph" died in 1804, John and Joseph, two of his sons, were already in Sumner County, Tennessee. There they raised large families and prospered as pioneers in the region south of the Cumberland. Another son, Obediah, settled in Knox County, kentucky after his accusation of being a horse thief in Virginia. He was not the only Payne who appeared in court records for something other than a will or deed.

Research Notes

DNA testing has placed Joseph in the Thomas Warren Family group. His mother was Susannah, who had a relationship with Thomas Warren in 1724- ? Compiled data, Gloria Lange

Until recently there was no information that pointed to the ancestors of Joseph Payne who died in Bedford County, Virginia and the father of several children who settled in Robertson County, Tennessee. Several descendants of Joseph and Phoebe Payne submitted their DNA to the Payne DNA project and there was no match to any of the other 250+ participants in the project. Then in late 2006 a member of the Thomas Warren family of Spotsylvania County, Virginia contacted the project with the information that his DNA was a perfect match to the Joseph Payne DNA participants. With this information we began a search of how this could have happened and an obscure court document was found in the loose papers of Spotsylvania records wherein in 1724 the couple Thomas Warren and Susannah Payne, were charged with Adultery by the Court. Thomas Warren was a married man with a family of 10 children and Susannah was single. We then found in the records of Christ Church Parish of Middlesex County, Virginia the record of the birth of Ann Payne the daughter of Barnett and Elizabeth Payne of Middlesex County. It has been long speculated that Joseph was a descendant of this Barnett since the name "Barnett" is a name carried down the lines of several of his descendants. But no evidence was found that could point to any of Barnett's sons being the father of Joseph. With the above court case we now know that Joseph's mother was unwed and hence he carried her surname. We have now concluded that Joseph is indeed the descendant of both Thomas Warren and Barnett Payne and this is also shown by the names of his children whom he named after members of both of these families. One other point to be made is the maiden name of Phoebe. For many years it has been stated the her maiden name was "Offill" based on information seen in some unnamed and forgotten book where a brother of Phoebe stated that she married Joseph Payne. After lenghly research we have never found this book but living near the Warren and Payne families in Spotsylvania County is the family of a William Offill and there are several court records where all these names are found together in regards to other matters of the County. With the fact that so many of Joseph's descendants never found it necessary to actually have their marriages recorded, it is quite possible that they got this idea from Joseph and Phoebe and because Joseph's mother was never married.

Generation No. 1

1. Joseph Payne, born Abt. 1725 in Spotsylvania County, Virginia; died 24 Sep 1803 in Bedford County, Virginia. He was the son of Thomas Warren and Susannah (Ann) Payne. He married Phoebe ______. She died Bef. 27 Jun 1803 in Bedford County, Virginia.

Generation No. 2

2. Thomas Warren, born Abt. 1682 in Old Rappahannock County, Virginia; died Dec 1750 in Spotsylvania County, Virginia. He was the son of John Warren and Rachel Williams. He met Susannah (Ann) Payne Abt. 1724 in Spotsylvania County, Virginia.

3. Susannah (Ann) Payne, born 22 Sep 1693 in Christ Church, Middlesex County, Virginia. She was the daughter of Barnett Payne and Elizabeth _____.

Child of Thomas Warren and Susannah Payne is: 1 Joseph Payne, born Abt. 1725 in Spotsylvania County, Virginia; died 24 Sep 1803 in Bedford County, Virginia; married Phoebe (Offill ?).

Sources

DNA relationship confirmed by comparison on GEDmatch of GH6719072 (Thompson-19754) with T007235 (Barnett, Jr.-1), who both show Warren-131 as a common ancestor, and have a shared number of cM that is in line with that relationship.

↑ "PAINE, JOSEPH Ancestor No. A086058." DAR Genealogical Research Databases. Daughters of the American Revolution, 2016. <http://services.dar.org/public/dar_research/search_adb/?action=full...>.
↑ Souder, Mary Fern. "THE PAYNE FAMILY." Cousins with the Right Stuff! A DNA Study by Mary Fern Souder, Ph.D. Mary Fern Souder, Ph.D., 01 Mar. 2008. Web. 20 Nov. 2016. <http://www.maryfern.com/payne-y.htm>.
↑ "PAINE, JOSEPH Ancestor No. A086058." DAR Genealogical Research Databases. Daughters of the American Revolution, 2016. <http://services.dar.org/public/dar_research/search_adb/?action=full...>.
↑ Listed as a possible death date by Anisah Haynes, 1/3/1998
↑ See also http://www.maryfern.com/payne-y.htm
↑ Edmund West, comp.. Family Data Collection - Deaths [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2001. https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=5771&h=200...
↑ 7.0 7.1 7.2 7.3 7.4 7.5 7.6 7.7 7.8 7.9 Mentioned in the will of Joseph Payne as a child of his.
↑ Berry was not mentioned in the will of Joseph, so there is some uncertainty whether he was a child of Joseph, or possibly of one of his older sons. He seems to be related somehow as he and his descendants lived near other children of Joseph's who to moved to Kentucky.
↑ There is a receipt dated 4 January 1781 and certified by John Ward that he had "received of Joseph Payne two beef cattle that weighed 400 pounds for which payment at the rate of 24 Shillings per pound shall be made." This receipt is recorded in Abercrombie & Slatten's "Virginia Revolutionary Public Claims," Vol. 1, p. 103, 116.
↑ Bedford County, VA, Court Order Book 6, p. 346.
↑ Will Book II, Pp. 5-6, Franklin County, VA
↑ This transcription of his will was taken from the family history of Jerald Wilson published in January 1993, in Greenfield, Indiana and titled " Joseph and Phoebe Payne Family. " Mr. Wilson gave his permission for the material from his book to be used in the book by Michael Mills, " Kentucky Lineage. "
↑ This transcription of his contested will court proceedings was taken from the family history of Jerald Wilson published in January 1993, in Greenfield, Indiana and titled " Joseph and Phoebe Payne Family. " Mr. Wilson gave his permission for the material from his book to be used in the book by Michael Mills, " Kentucky Lineage. "
↑ Or it may not have been as transcription error. Barnett is a diminutive form of the name "Bernard."
http://services.dar.org/Public/DAR_Research/search_adb/default.cfm
Family records, Census, death records
dna http://www.tngenweb.org/robertson/family/familyjospayneanc.html
Will Book II, Pp. 5-6, Franklin County, VA
FamilySearch. Will Book, v. 2, 1804-1901 (Franklin County, Virginia, p. 5
FamilySearch. Will Book, v. 2, 1804-1901 (Franklin County, Virginia, p. 6
Spotsylvania Court records dated 3 dec 1724, Thomas Warren/ Susanna Pain charged wirh adultery
FTDNA KIT NO 25636 Haplogroup R1b1a2 ALSO SEE BARNETT PAYNE maternal grandfather of Joseph.
Source: S-1522244706 Repository: #R-1673185236 Title: Ancestry Family Trees Publication: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com. Original data: Family Tree files submitted by Ancestry members. Page: Ancestry Family Tree Data: Text: http://trees.ancestry.com/pt/AMTCitationRedir.aspx?tid=54439699&pid...
Repository: R-1673185236 Name: Ancestry.com
Acknowledgements

This person was created through the import of PittsPenn_2010-09-21.ged on 22 September 2010 by MG Pitts.

A Patriot of the American Revolution for VIRGINIA. DAR Ancestor #: A086058

 Until recently there was no information that pointed to the ancestors of Joseph Payne who died in Bedford County, Virginia and the father of several children who settled in Robertson County, Tennessee. Several descendants of Joseph and Phoebe Payne submitted their DNA to the Payne DNA project and there was no match to any of the other 250+ participants in the project. Then in late 2006 a member of the Thomas Warren family of Spotsylvania County, Virginia contacted the project with the information that his DNA was a perfect match to the Joseph Payne DNA participants. With this information we began a search of how this could have happened and an obscure court document was found in the loose papers of Spotsylvania records wherein in 1724 the couple Thomas Warren and Susannah Payne, were charged with Adultery by the Court. Thomas Warren was a married man with a family of 10 children and Susannah was single. We then found in the records of Christ Church Parish of Middlesex County, Virginia the record of the birth of Ann Payne the daughter of Barnett and Elizabeth Payne of Middlesex County. It has been long speculated that Joseph was a descendant of this Barnett since the name "Barnett" is a name carried down the lines of several of his descendants. But no evidence was found that could point to any of Barnett's sons being the father of Joseph. With the above court case we now know that Joseph's mother was unwed and hence he carried her surname.

        We have now concluded that Joseph is indeed the descecndant of both Thomas Warren and Barnett Payne and this is also shown by the names of his children whom he named after members of both of these families. One other point to be made is the maiden name of Phoebe. For many years it has been stated the her maiden name was "Offill" based on information seen in some unnamed and forgotten book where a brother of Phoebe stated that she married Joseph Payne. After lenghly research we have never found this book but living near the Warren and Payne families in Spotsylvania County is the family of a William Offill and there are several court records where all these names are found together in regards to other matters of the County. With the fact that so many of Joseph's descendants never found it necessary to actually have their marriages recorded, it is quite possible that they got this idea from Joseph and Phoebe and because Joseph's mother was never married.

Source:

http://www.tngenweb.org/robertson/family/familyjospayneanc.html

• Reference: Ancestry Genealogy - SmartCopy: May 19 2018, 20:42:58 UTC
• Reference: Ancestry Genealogy - SmartCopy: Sep 15 2018, 20:54:28 UTC

  ---

GEDCOM Source

@R1500099019@ Ancestry Family Trees Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com. Original data: Family Tree files submitted by Ancestry members.

GEDCOM Source

Ancestry Family Tree http://trees.ancestry.com/pt/AMTCitationRedir.aspx?tid=101931078&pi...