Nesta verch Cadell (c.770 - 836) MP

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Nicknames: "Esyllt verch CYNAN DINDAETHWY"
Birthplace: Powys, Wales
Death: Died
Occupation: Queen of Powys, http://library.gramps-project.org/users/tpf/I1643.html
Managed by: Drew Dedman
Last Updated:

About Nesta verch Cadell

Nest ferch Cadell

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nest ferch Cadell was the daughter of Cadell ap Elisedd a late 8th century King of Powys, wife of Merfyn Frych King of Gwynedd and mother to Rhodri the Great, King of both Powys and Gwynedd.

On the death of her brother Cyngen ap Cadell in 855, authority over the Kingdom of Powys passed to her son Rhodri the Great who had previously inherited the Kingdom of Gwynedd on the death of his father in 844, thereby uniting the Kingdoms of Powys and Gwynedd.

It is unclear why the inheritance of Powys passed through Nest to her son, and not to one of the sons of Cyngen: Elisedd ap Cyngen, Ieuaf ap Cyngen, Aeddan ap Cyngen, and Gruffudd ap Cyngen. The texts of Welsh laws which survive to us were written down no earlier than the 12th century, but they provide no evidence that women were capable of transmitting legal title of kingship or lordship. Equally, although the pedigree in a manuscript in Jesus College Oxford[1] states Nest as the mother of Rhodri the Great, another pedigree in a fourteenth century manuscript[2] in the National Library of Wales records his mother as Essyllt ferch Cynan. There are no strong grounds to accept either manuscript as reliable, but it is reasonable to believe that the royal house of Gwynedd promoted the view that the Kingdom of Powys had passed to Rhodri the Great through his mother in order to legitimise their control over it.[3] Either way, this possible genealogical manipulation became part of the accepted story of the unification of the two kingdoms.

References

  1. ^ Jesus College Oxford, Manuscript 20
  2. ^ National Library of Wales, Mostyn Manuscript 117: Bonedd y Arwyr genealogies.
  3. ^ Kari Maund (2000). The Welsh Kings: The Medieval Rulers of Wales. Tempus.

--------------------

Nest ferch Cadell was the daughter of Cadell ap Elisedd a late 8th century King of Powys, wife of Merfyn Frych King of Gwynedd and mother to Rhodri the Great, King of both Powys and Gwynedd.

On the death of her brother Cyngen ap Cadell in 855 authority over the Kingdom of Powys passed to her son Rhodri the Great who had previously inherited the Kingdom of Gwynedd on the death of his father in 844, thereby uniting the Kingdoms of Powys and Gwynedd.

It is unclear why the inheritance of Powys passed through Nest to her son, and not to one of the sons of Cyngen: Elisedd ap Cyngen, Ieuaf ap Cyngen, Aeddan ap Cyngen, and Gruffudd ap Cyngen. The texts of Welsh laws which survive to us were written down no earlier than the 12th century, but they provide no evidence that women were capable of transmitting legal title of kingship or lordship. Equally, although the pedigree in a manuscript in Jesus College Oxford[1] states Nest as the mother of Rhodri the Great, another pedigree in a fourteenth century manuscript[2] in the National Library of Wales records his mother as Essyllt ferch Cynan. There are no strong grounds to accept either manuscript as reliable, but it is reasonable to believe that the royal house of Gwynedd promoted the view that the Kingdom of Powys had passed to Rhodri the Great through his mother in order to legitimise their control over it.[3] Either way, this possible genealogical manipulation became part of the accepted story of the unification of the two kingdoms.

--------------------

Nest ferch Cadell was the daughter of Cadell ap Elisedd a late 8th century King of Powys, wife of Merfyn Frych King of Gwynedd and mother to Rhodri the Great, King of both Powys and Gwynedd.

On the death of her brother Cyngen ap Cadell in 855 authority over the Kingdom of Powys passed to her son Rhodri the Great who had previously inherited the Kingdom of Gwynedd on the death of his father in 844, thereby uniting the Kingdoms of Powys and Gwynedd.

It is unclear why the inheritance of Powys passed through Nest to her son, and not to one of the sons of Cyngen: Elisedd ap Cyngen, Ieuaf ap Cyngen, Aeddan ap Cyngen, and Gruffudd ap Cyngen. The texts of Welsh laws which survive to us were written down no earlier than the 12th century, but they provide no evidence that women were capable of transmitting legal title of kingship or lordship. Equally, although the pedigree in a manuscript in Jesus College Oxford[1] states Nest as the mother of Rhodri the Great, another pedigree in a fourteenth century manuscript[2] in the National Library of Wales records his mother as Essyllt ferch Cynan. There are no strong grounds to accept either manuscript as reliable, but it is reasonable to believe that the royal house of Gwynedd promoted the view that the Kingdom of Powys had passed to Rhodri the Great through his mother in order to legitimise their control over it.[3] Either way, this possible genealogical manipulation became part of the accepted story of the unification of the two kingdoms.

--------------------

Nest ferch Cadell was the daughter of Cadell ap Elisedd a late 8th century King of Powys, wife of Merfyn Frych King of Gwynedd and mother to Rhodri the Great, King of both Powys and Gwynedd.

On the death of her brother Cyngen ap Cadell in 855 authority over the Kingdom of Powys passed to her son Rhodri the Great who had previously inherited the Kingdom of Gwynedd on the death of his father in 844, thereby uniting the Kingdoms of Powys and Gwynedd.

It is unclear why the inheritance of Powys passed through Nest to her son, and not to one of the sons of Cyngen: Elisedd ap Cyngen, Ieuaf ap Cyngen, Aeddan ap Cyngen, and Gruffudd ap Cyngen. The texts of Welsh laws which survive to us were written down no earlier than the 12th century, but they provide no evidence that women were capable of transmitting legal title of kingship or lordship. Equally, although the pedigree in a manuscript in Jesus College Oxford[1] states Nest as the mother of Rhodri the Great, another pedigree in a fourteenth century manuscript[2] in the National Library of Wales records his mother as Essyllt ferch Cynan. There are no strong grounds to accept either manuscript as reliable, but it is reasonable to believe that the royal house of Gwynedd promoted the view that the Kingdom of Powys had passed to Rhodri the Great through his mother in order to legitimise their control over it.[3] Either way, this possible genealogical manipulation became part of the accepted story of the unification of the two kingdoms. -------------------- Around the final half of the 14th century, a group of pedigrees were set down in Jesus College Ms 20. This is the earliest appearance of a "Nest ferch Cadell m. Brochuael m. Elisse" and she is made the mother of Rhodri Mawr (thus the wife of Merfyn Frych). A number of years later, about 1400, the manuscripts now called Achau Brenhinoedd a Thywysogion Cymru (often abbreviated as ABT) set down the pedigrees of the dynastic kings and princes of Wales. Here, "Nest ferch Gadell ap Brochwal ap Elisse" is cited as the mother of Merfyn Frych (thus the wife of Gwriad ap Elidyr). One might reasonably assume the objective of those medieval genealogists was to introduce a Powys heiress through whom the kingdom of Powys had been inherited by Gwynedd's Merfyn Frych or Rhodri Mawr, and it didn't really matter which.

www.ancientwalesstudies.org

We should like to advance a reason why no authentic sources can be found to show that Rhodri Mawr left Powys to Merfyn, or to anyone else; the possibility that he never held it in the first place. Ever since the days of Maelgwn Gwynedd of the sixth century, the king seated on Mon (now Anglesey) had not only held the title King of Gwynedd, but "King of the Britons".[5] The fact that Rhodri Mawr held that office in the mid-ninth century did not mean that any of the "lesser" kings had ceded their lands to him. While the kings of other lands in Wales may have looked up to him as their "supreme commander" in the wars against the invading Danes and Saxons, we have no reason to believe his vaunted "unification" was anything more than a military alliance to combat a common enemy. This alliance dissolved upon his death; there was no giant consolidated kingdom to be inherited. And we believe Powys always had been, and continued to be, ruled by its dynastic Royal Family.


       The belief that a Nest ferch Cadell ap Brochwel "carried off the Province" of Powys[6] from its dynastic family probably arose at a point in history long after the era of Rhodri Mawr. There was another lady named Nest who was the daughter of a king of Powys named Cadell ap Brochwel; she was born c. 970.  Her father was Cadell ap Brochwel ap Aeddon and she married Gwerystan ap Gwaethfoed, giving birth to a son named Cynfyn about 985.[7]  Following the death of King Gruffudd ap Llewelyn in 1063, Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn took the kingship of Powys and was succeeded by his brother Bleddyn ap Cynfyn in 1069. This conquest or usurpation of Powys is noted in one version of the Brut which says the brothers Rhiwallon and Bleddyn "took the sovereignty of the land of Powys from the lineage of Brochwel Ysgithrog, which was contrary to right".[8] Thus it would seem the loss of Powys to its dynastic family did not occur until the late 11th century.

       We believe the only historical Nest ferch Cadell ap Brochwel was the mother of Cynfyn ap Gwerystan; her name was appropriated and inserted into the medieval pedigrees of Rhodri Mawr to bolster the claim that Powys was merged into Gwynedd in the ninth century.  Its detractors had now delivered the coup de gras; not only was Powys an insignificant kingdom founded by fools and servants, they had made it disappear completely!  To them, it re-emerged as a separate entity only in the era of Bleddyn ap Cynfyn.

       In conclusion, we don't believe Cyngen ap Cadell had a sister named Nest but even if he did, she had nothing to do with the kingly succession in Powys.  The dynastic family continued its rule through Brochwel ap Aeddan, the son of Cyngen's cousin Aeddan ap Cyngen ap Brochwel ap Eliseg.  

Burke (Burke's Guide to the Royal Family, Burke's Peerage Limited, (First Edition, London, 1973).) identifies Merfyn's wife as Nest verch Cadell ap Brochwel, but Ancestral File names Esyllt verch Cynan Dyndaethwy.


Nest verch Cadell

Nest was born in Powys, Wales.1 Nest's father was Cadell ap Brochwel and her mother was <Unknown>. Her paternal grandparents were King of Powys Brochfael ap Elisedd and <Unknown>. She had a brother named Cyngen


Merfyn (The Freckled) Frych ap Gwriad & Nest verch Cadell 

They had a son named Mawr, The Great.

Personal Details

Merfyn (The Freckled) Frych ap Gwriad

Merfyn, known as The Freckled, was born in 0764 in Wales.1 He died as a war casualty at the age of 80 in 0844 in Battle of Cyfeil, Ketell, Wales.1

Nest verch Cadell

Nest was born in Powys, Wales.2

Children

 Rhodri (Mawr, The Great) ap Merfyn

Rhodri, known as Mawr, The Great, was born about 0820 in Caer Seiont, Carnarvonshire, Wales.3 He died about 0878 in Anglessey, Wales.3

-------------------- Nest ferch Cadell was the daughter of Cadell ap Elisedd a late 8th century King of Powys, wife of Merfyn Frych King of Gwynedd and mother to Rhodri the Great, King of both Powys and Gwynedd.

On the death of her brother Cyngen ap Cadell in 855, authority over the Kingdom of Powys passed to her son Rhodri the Great who had previously inherited the Kingdom of Gwynedd on the death of his father in 844, thereby uniting the Kingdoms of Powys and Gwynedd. -------------------- Nest was the sister of King Cyngen of Powys (eastern Wales).

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nest_ferch_Cadell for more information. -------------------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nest_ferch_Cadell -------------------- Nest ferch Cadell was the daughter of Cadell ap Elisedd a late 8th century King of Powys, wife of Merfyn Frych King of Gwynedd and mother to Rhodri the Great, King of both Powys and Gwynedd.

On the death of her brother Cyngen ap Cadell in 855, authority over the Kingdom of Powys passed to her son Rhodri the Great who had previously inherited the Kingdom of Gwynedd on the death of his father in 844, thereby uniting the Kingdoms of Powys and Gwynedd.

It is unclear why the inheritance of Powys passed through Nest to her son, and not to one of the sons of Cyngen: Elisedd ap Cyngen, Ieuaf ap Cyngen, Aeddan ap Cyngen, and Gruffudd ap Cyngen. The texts of Welsh laws which survive to us were written down no earlier than the 12th century, but they provide no evidence that women were capable of transmitting legal title of kingship or lordship. Equally, although the pedigree in a manuscript in Jesus College Oxford[1] states Nest as the mother of Rhodri the Great, another pedigree in a fourteenth century manuscript[2] in the National Library of Wales records his mother as Essyllt ferch Cynan. There are no strong grounds to accept either manuscript as reliable, but it is reasonable to believe that the royal house of Gwynedd promoted the view that the Kingdom of Powys had passed to Rhodri the Great through his mother in order to legitimise their control over it.[3] Either way, this possible genealogical manipulation became part of the accepted story of the unification of the two kingdoms.

-------------------- Name: Nesta Verch Cadell 1

Sex: F

Birth: ABT 780 in Powys, Wales 1

Death: Deceased 1

Marriage 1 Merfyn Ap Geriad "Freckled" King Of Gwynedd b: ABT 784

Children

Rhodri Mawr Ap Merfyn b: ABT 809 in Caer Seiont, Carnarvonshire, Wales

Sources:

Title: JohnFaye (8 Jun 05).FTW

Repository:

Media: Other

Text: Date of Import: 27 Jun 2005

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jcrow&id=I18426 -------------------- See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nest_ferch_Cadell

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Nesta verch Cadell's Timeline

770
770
Powys, Wales
789
789
Age 19
820
820
Age 50
820
Age 50
Caer Seiont, Carnarvonshire, Wales
822
822
Age 52
Wales
836
836
Age 66
1933
November 25, 1933
Age 66
1934
January 11, 1934
Age 66
????
????