Ralph I "The Timid" de Mantes (d. 1057), Earl of Hereford

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Ralph/Raoul "the Timid" de Mantes, I

Nicknames: "the Timid", "Ralph /De Sudeley/", "Ralph", "Rudolf", "Rudolph", "Rudulph"
Birthdate:
Birthplace: Mantes (Present Mantes-la-Jolie), Pays de France (Present Region Ile-de-France), France
Death: Died in England, (Present UK)
Place of Burial: Peterborough Abbey Cathedral, Peterborough, Northamptonshire, England, UK
Immediate Family:

Son of Dreux de Mantes, Comte du Vexin et d'Amiens and Godgifu
Husband of Gethe de Mantes and Gytha ou Getha Clopa or Clapa
Father of Harold de Ewyas I, Lord of Ewyas and Daughter Of de Sudeley
Brother of Adele deMantes; Drogon d'Amiens; Fouques de Mantes, Évêque d'Amiens (1057 - c1077); Gauthier III de Mantes, comte de Mantes and Poutoise de Mantes

Occupation: Earl of Hereford, Norfolk, and Suffolk, Comte, de Hereford, Sieur, de Sudeley, de Toddington, Earl of Norfolk and Suffolk - see http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps09/ps09_487.htm
Managed by: Tiffany Beesley Brock
Last Updated:

About Ralph/Raoul "the Timid" de Mantes, I

Relationships:

Parents:

  • Father: Dreux/Drogo de Mantes (d. 13 August 1035, somewhere west of Nicaea en route to Europe), Comte de Mantes, Comte d"Amiens
  • Mother: Godgifu/Goda of England (d. before 1049)

Siblings:

  • 2. Gauthier III de Mantes (1031-1063, poisoned at Falaise by henchmen of Guillaume II de Normandie after capture in war contesting the Comte du Maine), Comte de Mantes (1035-1063), m. Biote du Maine (poisoned to death around same time)
  • 3. Foulques de Mantes, Bishop of Amiens (possibly listed as Foulques de Valois, the nephew, served 1057-c1077)

Spouse:

  • Unknown. (Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700 - by Frederick Lewis Weis and Walter Lee Shepard, Jr. - suggested the name Getha. However this is a secondary source and the source of a lot of unaccountable information - verification is advised before accepting this as even likely; English Wikipedia names her as Gytha without providing citation).

Children:

  • 1. Harold de Ewias of Ewyas Harold, Herefordshire (d. after 1100)

Explanations: Drogo de Mantes, if accompanying Robert I/II "le Magnifique" de Normandie back from Jerusalem, would have passed through Nicaea on July 1-3, when Robert was poisoned to death. I haven't found the actual story of what happened after Robert's death to his accompanying knights.

Basic information:

Birth: Unknown. One estimate (unattributed and unsourced) places it around 1030.

Baptism: Unknown.

Marriage: Unknown.

Death: 21 December 1057, supposedly broken from the shock of having lost Herefordshire to the Welsh.

Burial: Peterborough Abbey Church, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, England

Occupation: Earl of Hereford (1052 - 21 December 1057), references are made to a Lordship of Sudeley, but this does not appear to be applicable to Ralph de Mantes. The first Baron of Sudeley was created in 1299, nearly a century and a half after his death. Reference is also made to Lord of Sudeley and Toddington - this was created in 1838. Likely the reference given to Sudeley in FMG was from Ralph's son Harold being given the 10th century Sudeley Manor during the Norman conquest, a possession that apparently didn't include a title in 1066.

Alternate Names: Ralph or Raoul "The Timid" de Mantes, Earl of Hereford

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From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on Paris Region Nobility, Chapter 7 Comte de Mantes (covering his birth family):

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/PARIS%20REGION%20NOBILITY.htm#RaoulHereforddied1057A

DREUX [Drogo] de Mantes (-[13 Aug] [1035]).

  • "Walterius comes" donated property "prope nostrum castellum…Medanta" to "Carnotensi monasterio Sancti Petri", for the soul of "coniugis mee Adelidis filiorumque meorum", by charter to [1006], signed by "Walterii comitis, Rodulfi filii eius, Drogonis filii eius…"[1301].
  • He succeeded his father as Comte de Mantes.
  • Comte d'Amiens. "Droco comes Ambianensium" donated property to "Sancti Petri Gismoensis" by undated charter, signed by "Droconis comitis, Eotde comitissæ, Falconis fratris comitis, Rodulfi filiii comitis, Gualterii alterius filii…"[1302].
  • He accompanied Robert II Duke of Normandy to Jerusalem and died on the journey[1303]. According to Orderic Vitalis, Henri I King of France took back the Vexin after the death of Comte Drogo[1304]. The necrology of Reims Saint-Rémi records the death "X Kal Aug" of "Drogo comes"[1305].

m ([1025 or before]) as her first husband, GODGIFU [Goda] of England, daughter of ÆTHELRED II "the Unready" King of England & his second wife Emma de Normandie (-before 1049).

  • Her parentage is stated by Orderic Vitalis, who says that Godgifu went into exile in Normandy with her brother[1306] in 1013. According to Orderic Vitalis, her first marriage was arranged by Robert II Duke of Normandy[1307], indicating that she probably did not return to England. This information is suspect, assuming that the charter of "Robertus Rex", which names "Comes Drogo…cum duobus fratribus Fulcone…et Rodulpho necnon uxore cum filiis supra memorati Drogonis", is correctly dated to 1025 as Duke Robert did not succeed as duke until 1027[1308].
  • Another possibility is that Drogo's children at that date were born from an earlier otherwise unrecorded marriage. There is no indication of the birth dates of his known children shown below, but the fact that none of them was given a typically Anglo-Saxon name also suggests that Godgifu may not have been the mother of all of them (although she is attested as mother of the son Raoul, see below).
  • "Droco comes Ambianensium" donated property to "Sancti Petri Gismoensis" by undated charter, signed by "Droconis comitis, Eotde comitissæ, Falconis fratris comitis, Rodulfi filiii comitis, Gualterii alterius filii…"[1309].
  • Godgifu married secondly ([1036]) as his first wife, Eustache [II] Comte de Boulogne . Her second marriage is referred to by Florence of Worcester[1310].

Comte Drogo & his wife had three children:

a) RAOUL de Mantes (-21 Dec 1057, bur Peterborough).

  • His parentage is given by Orderic Vitalis[1311].
  • Florence of Worcester calls Raoul the "son of King Edward's sister"[1312]. "Droco comes Ambianensium" donated property to "Sancti Petri Gismoensis" by undated charter, signed by "Droconis comitis, Eotde comitissæ, Falconis fratris comitis, Rodulfi filiii comitis, Gualterii alterius filii…"[1313]. Simeon of Durham names "earl Rodulph the son of king Eadward's sister Goda" in 1051[1314].
  • Earl of Hereford.

b) GAUTHIER [III] de Mantes (before [29 Mar 1030/10 Apr 1031]-poisoned Falaise [2 Aug] 1063).

  • His parentage is given by Orderic Vitalis, who lists him after his brother Raoul[1315]. "Drogo comes" agreed to donate property to Jumièges by charter dated to [29 Mar 1030/10 Apr 1031] subscribed by "Walterii filius eius"[1316]. "Droco comes Ambianensium" donated property to "Sancti Petri Gismoensis" by undated charter, signed by "Droconis comitis, Eotde comitissæ, Falconis fratris comitis, Rodulfi filiii comitis, Gualterii alterius filii…"[1317].
  • He succeeded his father in 1035 as Comte de Mantes.
  • "Comes Walterius" confirmed a donation of property, held by "pater meus Droco comes", to "cœnobii sancti Petri Carnotensis" by charter dated Feb 1055, witnessed by "Teduinus vicecomes Mellentis castri, Gualo vicecomes castri Calidi Montis…"[1318]. "Comes Gualterius" donated property to Chartres Saint-Père by charter dated 22 Jan 1060 which names "pater meus Drogo comes"[1319].
  • He claimed the county of Maine, by right of his wife, after the death in Mar 1062 of her nephew Héribert [II] Comte du Maine and took possession[1320]. Guillaume II Duke of Normandy defeated and imprisoned him end-1063.
  • Orderic Vitalis records that Gauthier and his wife died "poisoned - so the rumour goes - by the evil machinations of their enemies", and that Duke Guillaume took control over Maine after this[1321]. The necrology of Saint-Père-en-Vallée records the death "IV Non Aug" of "Gualterius comes"[1322], which may refer to Comte Gauthier [III].
  • m BIOTE du Maine, daughter of HERIBERT [I] "Eveille-Chien" Comte du Maine & his wife --- (-poisoned Falaise 1063). Guillaume de Poitiers names "la sœur de Hugues" as wife of "Gautier comte de Mantes", when recording the latter's claim to Maine[1323]. The primary source which confirms her name has not yet been identified.

c) FOULQUES de Mantes . His parentage is given by Orderic Vitalis, who lists him after his two brothers and specifies that he was Bishop of Amiens[1324].

References:

  • [1301] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XLIII, p. 170.
  • [1302] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XLVI, p. 173.
  • [1303] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. II, Book III, p. 117, and Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1304] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1305] 'Obits mémorables tirés de nécrologes luxembourgeois, rémois et messins', Revue Mabillon VI (1910-1911), p. 274.
  • [1306] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1307] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1308] RHGF X, L, p. 622.
  • [1309] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XLVI, p. 173.
  • [1310] Forester, T. (trans.) (1854) The Chronicles of Florence of Worcester with two continuations (London), 1051, p. 150.
  • [1311] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1312] Florence of Worcester 1055, p. 157.
  • [1313] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XLVI, p. 173.
  • [1314] Stevenson, J. (trans.) (1855) The Historical Works of Simeon of Durham (London) (“Simeon of Durham”), p. 535.
  • [1315] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1316] Vernier, J. J. (ed.) (1916) Chartes de l'abbaye de Jumièges, Tome I c 825-1169 (Rouen, Paris) 14, p. 46.
  • [1317] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XLVI, p. 173.
  • [1318] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. LXXIV, p. 199.
  • [1319] Chartres Saint-Père, II, Codex Diplomaticus Pars Tertia ex Schedis D. Muley, 4, p. 625.
  • [1320] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. II, Book III, p. 117.
  • [1321] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. II, Book III, p. 119.
  • [1322] Obituaires de Sens Tome II, Abbaye de Saint-Père-enVallée, p. 193.
  • [1323] Davis, R. H. C. and Chibnall. M. (eds. and trans.) (1998) The Gesta Guillelmi of William of Poitiers (Oxford), p. 362.
  • [1324] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.

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From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on English Nobility Medieval (covering his married life):

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm#_Toc254344892

EARL OF HEREFORD (MANTES), Families of SUDELEY and TRACY


The primary sources which confirm the parentage and marriages of the members of this family have not yet been identified, unless otherwise shown below.


RAOUL de Mantes, son of DREUX Comte de Mantes & his wife Godgifu [Goda] of England (-21 Dec 1057, bur Peterborough[129]).

  • His parentage is recorded by Orderic Vitalis[130].
  • Florence of Worcester calls Raoul the "son of King Edward's sister"[131]. "Droco comes Ambianensium" donated property to "Sancti Petri Gismoensis" by undated charter, signed by "Droconis comitis, Eotde comitissæ, Falconis fratris comitis, Rodulfi filiii comitis, Gualterii alterius filii…"[132]. Simeon of Durham names "earl Rodulph the son of king Eadward's sister Goda" in 1051[133].
  • He rallied to the support of Edward "the Confessor" King of England in Sep 1051 when Godwin Earl of Wessex and his sons were threatening force against the King[134].
  • Earl of Hereford.
  • He founded the Cistercian Abbey of Flaxley in Gloucestershire 30 Sep 1051[135].
  • He assembled an army to defend Hereford against Earl Ælfgar and Gruffydd Prince of South Wales but fled 24 Oct 1055[136].

m ---. The name of Raoul's wife is not known.

Raoul & his wife had one child:

1. HAROLD de Ewias of Ewyas Harold, Herefordshire (-after 1100).

  • Freeman states that "Harold the son of Ralph" is named in Domesday in Gloucestershire, Worcester, Warwickshire and Middlesex[137]. A manuscript which lists donations to Gloucester St Peter includes a record of the donation in 1100 by “Haraldus dominus de Ewyas” and the later confirmation by “Robertus” of "donum Haraldi patris sui"[138].

References:

  • [129] Florence of Worcester 1057, pp. 159-60.
  • [130] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [131] Florence of Worcester 1055, p. 157.
  • [132] Guérard, M. (ed.) (1840) Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Saint-Père de Chartres (Paris) (“Chartres Saint-Père”), Vol. I, Cap. XLVI, p. 173.
  • [133] Stevenson, J. (trans.) (1855) The Historical Works of Simeon of Durham (London) (“Simeon of Durham”), Vol. I, p. 535.
  • [134] Garmonsway, G. N. (trans) (1972) The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (Dent) D, 1052 [1051].
  • [135] Domesday Descendants, p. 118.
  • [136] Florence of Worcester 1055, p. 157, which describes him as "cowardly".
  • [137] Freeman, E. A. (1877) The History of the Norman Conquest of England, its causes and its results 3rd Edn. (Oxford), Vol. II, Appendix, Note LL, p. 683, citing Domesday, 129 b, 169, 177, 244.
  • [138] Dugdale Monasticon I, Gloucester Monastery, XIII, p. 546.

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From the English Wikipedia page on Ralph the Timid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_the_Timid

Ralph the Timid, also known as Ralf of Mantes, was probably brought to England as part of the Confessor's entourage in 1041. He was created the Earl of Hereford in 1051/52[1] until his death in 1057. He was the son of Drogo of Mantes, Count of the Vexin, and Goda of England, daughter of King Ethelred the Unready of England and Emma of Normandy. Thus, he was a nephew of the English Saxon King Edward the Confessor, who placed him in command of the Earldom of Herefordshire. He himself married a woman named Gytha.

He placed Normans in positions of authority beneath him in Hereford and these men immediately began constructing castles, a new architectural feature in the English landscape.

When Godwin, Earl of Wessex, returned from exile in 1052, there was almost war between the English Saxons and the Normans, but it was prevented and many Normans had to flee the country. Edward the Confessor intervened on Ralph's behalf, for he loved him dearly. Godwin made peace with his underling Ralph, but died on September 14, 1053. In that year, Ralph became Earl in his own right and held the counties of Gloucestershire and Oxfordshire as well.

In 1055, Gruffydd ap Llywelyn, King of Gwynedd (and later all Wales), invaded Ralph's lands in Hereford along with the exiled Earl Ælfgār. Arming all his men as Norman knights, they sallied forth from his seat at Hereford Castle and were soundly defeated on October 24, 1055. Gruffydd ap Llywelyn took Hereford and destroyed the new castle.

Ralph was disgraced and he died two years later in 1057, never having recovered from the shock of loss or the ignominy of his defeat: he was ever after called the Timid, less for actual cowardice as for his trust in armoured cavalry over the traditional Anglo-Saxon war form.

His son Harold, became a ward of the royal court. Although a nephew of King Edward, Ralph would never have secured enough Witan votes to become a candidate for the monarchy.[2]

After the death of Ralph, Herefordshire was added to Harold Godwinson's Earldom of Wessex[3], possibly only to be held until Ralph's son Harold was old enough to rule it himself.[4]

Notes

[1]^ Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, 1052, mentions Ralph as Earl. The appointment would have been 1051 after Swegen's exile or early 1052.

[2]^ Wood, 34.

[3]^ DeVries, The Norwegian Invasion of England in 1066, p. 140.

[4]^ Frank Barlow, The Godwins, p. 83

References

Anglo-Saxon Chronicle.

Hynde, Thomas (ed.) (1995). The Domesday Book: England's History Then and Now.. DeVries, Kelly (1999). The Norwegian Invasion of England in 1066. Boydell Press. pp. 108–114. ISBN 1-84383-027-2. O'Brien, Harriet (2005). Queen Emma and the Vikings. London: Bloomsbury. pp. 223–224.

Barlow, Frank (2002). The Godwins.

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Earl of Hereford Ralph "the Timid" de Sudeley1

b. circa 1030, d. 1057

Earl of Hereford Ralph "the Timid" de Sudeley|b. c 1030\nd. 1057|p344.htm#i8466|Dreux, comte d'Amiens|b. c 974\nd. 1035|p339.htm#i8468|Godgifu, Princess of the English|b. 1003\nd. 1055|p344.htm#i8469|Gautier II "the White", comte de Vexin, Valois, et Amiens|b. c 944\nd. 1027|p337.htm#i8470|Adèle de Senlis|b. c 944|p64.htm#i8471|Æthelred II "the Unready", King of the English|b. c 966\nd. 23 Apr 1016|p335.htm#i5402|Emma Regina|b. c 962\nd. 6 Mar 1052|p343.htm#i7266|

Father Dreux, comte d'Amiens2,3,4 b. circa 974, d. 1035

Mother Godgifu, Princess of the English2,3,4 b. 1003, d. 1055

Earl of Hereford Ralph "the Timid" de Sudeley was born circa 1030. He was the son of Dreux, comte d'Amiens and Godgifu, Princess of the English.2,3,4 Earl of Hereford at Welsh Marches, England, between 1053 and 1057.5,4 Earl of Hereford Ralph "the Timid" de Sudeley was disgraced for cowardice against the Welsh in 1055.5 He died in 1057.3

Family

Child

  • Harold, Lord of Sudeley and Ewyas Harold+ b. b 1057, d. a 1115

Citations

1. [S206] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr. and assisted by David Faris Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis: AR 7th ed., 235-21.

2. [S269] C. W. Previté-Orton sCMH I, pg. 382.

3. [S1075] Translated and edited by Michael Swanton, ASC+, pg. 288.

4. [S215] Revised by others later George Edward Cokayne CP, XI:App. D, pg. 110.

5. [S643] E.Domesday, online http://www.domesdaybook.co.uk/book.html

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Ralph the Timid was a loved nephew to the English Saxon King Edward the Confessor who placed him in command of the Earldom of Herfordshire.

Ralph placed Normans in positions of authority beneath him in Hereford and these men immediately began constructing castles, a new architectural feature in the English landscape.

In 1055 King of Gwynedd (and later all Wales) invaded Ralphs lands and defeated Ralph, destroying the new castle and taking Hereford. Ralph never recovered from the shock of loss of the ignominy of his defeat. He was after called the Timid for his trust in armoured cavalry over the traditional Anglo-Saxon war form.

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From his mother, Rudolph was created Earl of Hereford by his uncle Eadward the Confessor. Of which the earldom was deproved of his son in the reign of William the Conqueror. In the year 1051 he was admiral of 50 ships of the king's navy.

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From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps09/ps09_487.htm

TRACY ancestor list of Leona Ferrell ORR: Rudolf (Ralph) de Mantes was Lord of the Manor of Sudeley and Toddington. His uncle, King Edward the Confessor, made him Earl of Hereford. He died 21 Dec 1057 and is buried in Petersborough. Married Gethe.

ANCESTRAL ROOTS OF CERTAIN AMERICAN COLONISTS, F. L. Weis, Edition 7: p 201 - Ralph de SUDELEY of Sudeley and Toddington,. co. Gloucester, and Chivers Coton, co. Warwick, married Getha, died 21 Dec 1057

References: [AR7],[PlantagenetA],[Paget1]

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_the_Staller -------------------- Notes, George S Brewer. cr. Earl of Hartford by his uncle, Edward the Confessor

view all 12

Ralph I "The Timid" de Mantes (d. 1057), Earl of Hereford's Timeline

1026
1026
Mantes (Present Mantes-la-Jolie), Pays de France (Present Region Ile-de-France), France
1038
1038
Age 12
Hereford, Herefordshire, England, (Present UK)
1042
1042
Age 16
Of, , Brittany, France
1057
December 21, 1057
Age 31
England, (Present UK)
1057
Age 31
Hertfordshire, England, United Kingdom
????
????
????
????
Toddington, Gloucestershire, England
????
Chilvers Coton, County Warwick, England