Raoul de Gouy, comte d'Ostrevent

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Raoul de Gouy (de Cambrai), comte de Vexin, Amiens et Valois de Gouy (de Cambrai), comte de Vexin, Amiens et Valois

Also Known As: "Ralph", "Rodolfus"
Birthdate:
Birthplace: Vexin,Seine Inferieure,Normandy,France
Death: Died in Valois,Oise,Picardy,France
Immediate Family:

Son of Hucbald, graaf van Ostrevant and Heilwig, daughter of Eberhard and Gisela
Husband of Alpaïs; Hildegarde d'Amiens, countess of Valois and Aleïdis de Cambrai
Father of Raoul II, comte de Vexin; Gautier I, comte du Vexin; Geoffroi I "Papabos", vicomte de Bourges and Humbert de Chartres
Brother of Hucbald II, graaf van Ostrevant; Hereswint d'Ostrevant; Heilwig de Senlis; Adalbald Count of Graaf van Ostrevant; Conte Radulfus Gouy "de Cambrai" and 2 others

Occupation: Count of Valois, Count of Vexin, Amiens & Ostrevant
Managed by: Douglas John Nimmo
Last Updated:

About Raoul de Gouy, comte d'Ostrevent

Chapter 8. COMTES d'OSTREVANT http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm


The county of Ostrevant originally formed part of the pagus Atrebatensis. It was bound to the north by the river Scarpe, and to the east and south by the rivers Escaut and Sensée[842]. It lay east of Douai and west of Valenciennes, within the territory of the west Frankish kingdom. It is not known who governed the county after the death of Raoul [II] in 944 until the late 11th century when it was held by the seigneurs de Ribemont, who were also châtelains de Valenciennes (see HAINAUT).


son of Comte HUCBALD d'Ostrevant and his wife Heilwig of Friulia (daughter of Eberhard and Gisela):

RAOUL [I] (-926). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.

Flodoard records that Hugues "le Grand" excluded "terra filiorum Balduini, Rodulfi quoque de Gaugeio atque Hilgaudi" from a treaty made with the Normans in 925[847], which may refer to this Raoul.

Vanderkindere suggests that "Gaugeium" was Gouy-sous-Bellone, in the area of Ostrevant, not Gouy-en-Arrouaise which is near Cambrai[848].

Flodoard records the death of "Rodulfus comes, filius Heilwidis" and "non multo post etiam Rotgarius, vitricus eius, comes Laudunensis pagi" in 926[849].

m ---. The identity of the wife of Raoul [I] is uncertain. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines records that "comes Rodulfus" (referring to Raoul [II]) was "nepos…ex sorore" of Louis IV King of France[850]. It appears chronologically unlikely for any of King Louis's sisters, whose dates of birth can be estimated to [908/17], to have been the mother of Raoul [II] who was killed in battle in 944, presumably when he was already adult. It appears more likely that the family relationship was one generation further back, and that a member of the Unruochingi family, descended from the sister of Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks and who originated in the same area in northern France, would provide a good match. Nevertheless, the earlier primary source on which Alberic based his information has not yet been identified and it is possible that the source is inaccurate in its report. However, the poem Raoul de Cambrai states that "Raoul Taillefer" married "Aalais", sister of King Louis IV[851] which, if correct, would mean that his wife could be identified with Adelais, daughter of Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks & his first wife Frederuna ([908/16]-). This would mean that Raoul [II] was an infant when his father died (in fact the poem suggests that he was born posthumously). It would also mean that Raoul [I] and his wife were closely related, as the Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines also implies that Raoul's mother was the daughter of Adelais's paternal great aunt Gisela who married Eberhard, ancestor of the Marchesi of Friulia (see above). The poem Raoul de Cambrai cannot claim to be historically accurate. Nevertheless, it is not impossible that the detail of Raoul's marriage was not fabricated.

Comte Raoul [I] & his wife had [two] children:

i) RAOUL [II] (-killed in battle 944). Flodoard records that "Rodulfum filium Rodulfi de Gaugliaco" attempted to invade Vermandois in 943, during the course of which he was killed[852]. Comte de Valois, d'Amiens et du Vexin. He built the fortress of Crépy before 943. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines records that "Radulfum Cameracensem comitem" invaded Vermandois, adding that he was "nepos…ex sorore" of Louis IV King of France[853], although the earlier source on which this last piece of information is based has not yet been identified. The History of Waulsort monastery records that "Cameracensis comes Rodulfus…regalis consanguinitatis" invaded the territory of "quatuor Heriberti filios" with the consent of "rege Francorum…avunculo suo" but was expulsed[854], but this confuses Raoul [II] with Raoul, son of Baudouin I Count of Flanders. m as her first husband, LIEGARDIS Ctss de Meulan et de Mantes, daughter of --- (-12 Nov [990/91]). "Liutgarde veuve du comte Raoul" donated property to Saint-Cyr de Nevers by charter dated Oct 947[855]. She married (after Oct 947) secondly Galeran Comte de Meulan. The primary source which confirms her second marriage has not yet been identified.

ii) [GAUTHIER [I] (-987). Edouard de Saint-Phalle suggests that Gauthier [I] Comte d'Amiens, de Valois et du Vexin was the second son of Raoul [I][856].] - COMTES de VALOIS.]

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From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps06/ps06_373.htm

Raoul was Count of Ostrevant and Amiens and of Valois and the Vexin. For a discussion of his parentage, see "Ancestral Roots..." (Balt., 7th ed., line 250).

possible wife: Hildegarde of Flanders daughter of Arnulf (The Elder) I

References: [RFC],[AR7]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps09/ps09_499.htm

Per Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (250:17): "Count of Ostrevant and Amiens, and of Valois,and the Vexin, d.936 (his mother was a Heliwich, very doubtful if identical with No.16 [i.e. Helwise, d.895, dau. of EBERHARD, MARGRAVE OF FRIULI and wife of Hucbold, Count of Osrevant].); m. ELDEGARDE, (dau, or niece of Ermenfroi, Count of Amiens?, prob. a Carolingian princess), who m. (2) Waleran, a count who has been misidentified as father of No. 18 [i.e. WALTER I]"

A lengthy footnote following Weis' line # 250 explains in detail the combination of things which must be proven as true for Raoul to be the grandson of EBERHARD MARGRAVE OF FRIULI (RIN 1441). Todate, this proof seems highly unlikely.

The same footnote states that "David K. Kelly, from his studies (soon to be published) thinks it more likely that Raoul's father was COUNT THEODORIC, prob. of Valois, Vexin, pos. of Amiens, who was of the male line of CHILDEBRAND (RIN 1244), germanus of KARL MARTEL. COUNT THEODORIC, the Nibelung DID have a son, Count Radulph, prob. of Valois, who could well be this Raoul."

References: [AR7],[RFC]

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Raoul de Gouy, comte d'Ostrevent's Timeline

873
873
Vexin,Seine Inferieure,Normandy,France
894
894
Age 21
Amiens, Somme, France
915
915
Age 42
Cambrai, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France
919
919
Age 46
Valois now Oise, Picardy, France
920
920
Age 47
Bourges, Centre, France
920
Age 47
926
926
Age 53
Valois,Oise,Picardy,France
????
????
????
- present
Count of Valois