Richard de Tempest, of Bracewell

The Ancestry of Nathan Lewis Harrison Revisited Nineteen Years Later By Keith G. Harrison Pg.286

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This posting is confused

From: "TJ Booth_aol" <tjbooth@aol.com> Subject: Father of Sir Richard Tempest (1356-1428) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 14:02:40 -0500

Sharp-eyed Will kindly corrected the identity of Mary Clitheroe's first husband as stated in my 6 June post re 'St. Quintin of Hornby, Yorkshire'. The cited source - F.S. Colman's 'Barwick-in-Elmet' - did correctly state that John (not Sir Richard) Tempest was Mary Clitheroe's 1st husband but my posting mixed them. As Will also noted, Sir Richard, John's father, had m. Isabel Bourne, heiress of Studley.

To return the favor, his correction said John Tempest was age 27 in 1487. This is likely a typo for 1387 - perhaps he can at least provide a citation for this (an IPM?) given all those we've been providing him.

Double checking more of the Tempest family pedigree against Colman's work, there are a number of better dates for John Tempest, his father Sir Richard, and other Tempests that can be noted. A 20 May 1390 document shows 'Mary Tempest' arranging for seisin of Studley which she had of Isabella [Bourne] who "was wife" of Richard Tempest, knight.[1] So both Richard and John Tempest were d. by that date. There is also a 5 May 1405 fine in which Nicholas Gascoigne and wife Mary [Clitheroe Tempest] agree to pay widow Isabella [Bourne] Tempest and son Sir William Tempest 20 marks per yr for Studley in Mary's lifetime, acknowledging the right of Sir William to Studley.[2] This confirms that Studley descended thru William son of Sir Richard and Isabel, but that it was held by Mary Gascoigne in her lifetime.

Page 163 of Colman starts a well documented charting and discussion of the Isabel Bourne and Mary Clitherow relationship, which has otherwise confused many. Per the page 164 chart, Hugh Clitheroe (d. 1370) was father of Mary Clitheroe Tempest Gascoigne by first wife NN, while Isabel Bourne (mother of Mary's husband John) was his step-dau by 2nd wife Isabella le Gras, heiress of Studley. Other documents provide new dates for the family, including that Sir Richard and Isabel Bourne m. by 18 Oct 1355, Sir Richard then an adult,[3] and John Tempest d. betw 13 Jul 1388 and 16 Feb 1389/90.[4]

Last but not least, there has been great confusion over the years about the wives and family of 'Sir Richard Tempest'. A John Scheurman 2006 post to SGM @ http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/gen-medieval/2006-06/... announced a long article he and Douglas Hickling posted to Chris Phillips great website. The website article exhibits careful scholarship - see for instance 'Who Was the Wife of Sir Richard Tempest (1356-1428)' @ http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/families/tempest/tempest3.shtml. Its conclusion : 'So, while we believe that Margaret Stainforth was Richard's wife, we cannot be sure that he did not have a first wife.' and allows for the possibilty the first wife was Isabel Bourne or Le Gras.

Several citations in Colman make it clear there were 2 different Richard Tempests, one of Studley (b. bef 18 Oct 1334) and one of Bracewell (1356-1428). They are both clearly identified in a 15 Aug 1382 grant in which "John Tempest son and heir of Richard Tempest of Stodelay grants to Sir Richard Tempest son of Sir John Tempest of Bracewell all his lordship of Pathorne".[5] Either then or by 30 Sep 1382, John Tempest of Studley's father was dead, when John released Pathorne 'inherited on the death of Richard Tempest his father' to Sir Richard Tempest "consanguineo meo".[6] The grants make John of Studley b. bef 15 Aug 1361.

The above 15 Aug 1382 grant is a previously misunderstood record which changes several relationships for the Tempests and their wives at this time. Schuerman/ Hickling, in 'Mary Talbot the Wife of Richard Tempest' @ http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/families/tempest/tempest2.shtml (middle of the page) identified the father of Sir Richard of Bracewell (1356-1428) as another Sir Richard. Their source was a single record noted in Eleanor Blanche Tempest's 'Tempest Pedigrees' MS that quotes a Hopkinson MS (which the authors also reviewed), whose evidence was a Townley family MS, of "a widow's release by Mary: "The 16 Feb: 13 Ric ij (1389-90) Maria widow of Sir Ric Tempest released to Ric Tempest 'filio meo' her dower in Pathorn & Thornton in Craven. Sir Tho: Talbot chiv 'patre meo' being witness."

The 15 Aug 1382 grant - which is surely the same Pathorne property as in the widow's release - contradicts this, making Mary Talbot's husband Sir John Tempest, not Sir Richard. Given that Hopkinson was - as the article states - a tertiary source (and is also notoriously unreliable), the identity of Mary Talbot's husband and the father of Sir Richard Tempest (1356-1428) would seem best based on the 15 Aug 1382 grant. This would change the pedigree to read that Sir John Tempest of Bracewell (b. perhaps 1330, d. bef 16 Feb 1389/90) m. Mary Talbot and was father to Sir Richard (1356-1428). Sir Richard Tempest of Stodeley (b. bef 18 Oct 1334, d. bef 30 Sep 1382) who m. Mary Clitheroe bef 18 Oct 1355, was likely his younger brother, both the sons (per Scheurman/Hickling's pedigree) of Sir John and Catherine Sherburne.

Although Scheurman/Hickling were aware of the 15 Aug 1382 grant, they apparently relied on the 'Tempest Pedigrees' transcription of it, which as will be seen omits the crucial identity of Sir Richard of Bracewell's father : "'In Aug 1382, Robt de Staynforth was witness to a grant from John son of Sir Richard Tempest of Studley to Sir Ric. Tempest of Bracewell, of land in Pathorne (Ric: Gascoignes MSS) & was associated with Sir Ric. Tempest in a suit over land there & in Settle (Assize Ro. 1500. m. 10). In 1389, Robt Staynforth was to have gone with Sir Richard to Berwick, but was too infirm & aged to go (Pat Ro Cal 1385-89, p. 267).' We have verified only the last of these references."

F. S. Colman's preface notes his reliance on Colonel Gascoigne's 'remarkable MSS collection' and that the records he did not use appear in one of W. Brown's 'Yorkshire Deeds' publications.[7] This suggests not only that Brown placed much value on Gascoigne's collection, but that the only way to verify Colman's transcription of the 1382 grant is to examine the Gascoigne MSS itself.

Perhaps there are other records which may further validate the identity of the father of Sir Richard Tempest b. 1356. It appears the only major change being suggested of the Scheurman/Hickling article is the first name of his father - their carefully documented rejection of a Holand ancestry remains intact.

Terry Booth Chicago IL

Copyright 2011

Footnotes

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[1] F.S. Colman; 'History of Barwick-in-Elmot'; Thoresby Soc; Vol 17; page 135. "Mary Tempest appoints her cousin, Henry de Tounley, her attorney to receive seisin of her manor of Stodelay and appurtenances in Sallay, Grantelav and Eueston which she had of Isabella who was wife of Richard Tempest, knt. 20 May, 13 Ric. II. (1390). (G[ascoigne]: MSS)" [See also footnote 4, making her a widow 3 months earlier] [2] Ibid.; page 135. "Fine. Easter, 6 Hen. IV [1405]. Isabella, widow of Richard Tempest, Knt., and William, her son, Knt., plffs. Nicholas Gascoigne and Mary, his wife, defs., concerning the manor of Studeley. Nicholas and Mary acknowledge the right of William, Isabella and William having granted to them for life of Mary 20 marks in silver annually.(G[ascoigne]: MSS)" Isabella, who was wife of Richard Tempest, Knt., and William Tempest, her son and heir, grant to Nicholas Gascoigne and Mary, his wife, an annual rent of a hundred shillings out of the manor of Stodelay, the condition being to secure the due payment of the annual rent of 20 marks which Isabella and William granted bv fine to Nicholas and Mary. Test. William de Ledes, Robert de Linlay, William Franke, Nicholas Franke, Robert de Bolton and others. Enrolled 14 May, 1405. (G: MSS.) [3] Ibid.; page 170. Bond from Hugh de Clyderhowe to Sir Richard Tempest knt. in 600 pounds sterling by a cognizance in Chancery to secure payment of the annuity of £40 payable at Stodley to him and to his wife Isabel. Dated at York. St. Luke's Day 29 Ed. III. (18 Oct., 1355). Seal in red wax, a saltire engrailed S. Hugonis de Clederow. [4] Ibid., page 135. Mary who was wife of John Tempest, widow, releases to Richard Tempest knt all right claim etc which she had by inheritance, dower etc in lands, tenements, woods, meadows, pastures, mills, rents or services etc in Pathorne in Craven and Thornton in the Street in the county of York which came to her at the death of her husband John. Witnesses Thomas Talbot, William de Rilleston, John Dautre, Knights, William de Marton, Alan de Caterall, Thomas de Marton and others. At Bracewell 16 February 13 Ric. II. [1389-90]. (Gascoigne.AfSS.) An early note says that John Tempest was alive the Monday after the Translation of St Thomas the Martyr 12 Ric. II. (13 July, 1388), but the deed to which this refers is lost. (Gascoigne: MSS) [5] Ibid.; page 164. John Tempest son and heir of Richard Tempest of Stodelay grants to Sir Richard Tempest son of Sir John Tempest of Bracewell all his lordship of Pathorne which he had of the feoffment of the said Sir Richard his father. Witnesses Simon de Marton, Henry de Pudsay, William de Ryleston, John de Malghom, Robert de Staynford, John de Pudsay, John de Mydhopp and others. At Pathorne Feast of the Assumption 6 Ric. II. [Aug. 15, 1382.] (G[ascoigne]: MSS) [6] Ibid.; page 164. John Tempest son and heir of Richard Tempest knt releases to Richard Tempest knt "consanguineo meo " all lands in Pathorne which he inherited on the death of Richard Tempest his father. At Bolton Tuesday after the Feast of St Michael 6 Ric. II. [30 Sept. 1382]. (Gascoigne: MSS) [7] Ibid.; preface. "[Colonel Gascoigne's] Parlington collection of deeds covers not only the manors and estates of the family but touches also many other districts in Yorkshire, and a number of the most valuable of them, other than those I have used, have been included, with Colonel Gascoigne's consent, in a volume of Yorkshire Deeds, edited by Mr. W. Brown, for the Yorkshire Archaeological Society's Record Series.

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Original Message ----- From: Wjhonson To: tjbooth@aol.com ; gen-medieval@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 3:28 PM Subject: Re: St. Quintin of Hornby, Yorkshire

Sir Richard Tempest had one wife Isabel de Bourne who outlived him and died 13 Aug 1421 "seized of the manor of Trefford co Durham

Their eldest son John Tempest "aged 27 and more" 1487; heir of his father; inherited Studley; married Mary Cliderhowe as her first husband in or about 1388; he apparently died s.p. or at least s.p.m. as his next brother William Tempest is described of Studley and this manor descends to William's daughter Dionysia who married William Mallory

William the Great sometimes Nice and sometimes Nasty Johnson

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http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/families/tempest/index.shtml #45 (Volume 1 page 77)

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Sir Richard Tempest was born circa 1334.1

He was the son of Sir John Tempest and Katherine Sherburne.2 He married Maria Talbot, daughter of Sir Thomas Talbot.1 He died circa 1386.1

He lived at Bracewell, Yorkshire, England.1 He had two younger sons and two daughters.1

Child of Sir Richard Tempest and Maria Talbot

1. Sir Richard Tempest+2 b. 1356 Citations

• [S37] BP2003 volume 2, page 2385. See link for full details for this source. Hereinafter cited as. [S37]
• [S37] BP2003. [S37]

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• Wife: Maria Talbot. Children: Margaret Tempest, Nicholas Tempest, Richard Tempest Knight, Richard Tempest

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10. Richard TEMPEST 26 (John Knight ((Sir)) 8, John ((Sir)) 7, Richard 6, Roger Lord of Waddington, Knight ((Sir)) 5, Richard Lord of Bracewell, Knight ((Sir)) 4, Richard Lord of Bracewell 3, Roger Lord of Bracewell 2,

Richard DE 1) was born circa 1338 in Bracewell, West Riding, Yorkshire, England 26 and died before Oct 1379 of Bracewell, West Riding, Yorkshire, England.26

Richard married Mary TALBOT, daughter of (Sir) MRIN 820 Thomas TALBOT and Wife of Sir Thomas (TALBOT) UNKNOWN, circa 1355. Mary was born circa 1340 in Bashall Eaves, Yorkshire, England and died before 1360 of Bracewell, West Riding, Yorkshire, England.

Children from this marriage were:

• 13. i.   (Sir) Richard TEMPEST M.P., Knight 68 489 was born about 1356 in Bracewell, West Riding, Yorkshire, England 68 489 and died about 1428 of Bracewell, West Riding, Yorkshire, England 68 489 about age 72.
• 14. ii.   Margaret TEMPEST was born circa 1358 in Bracewell, West Riding, Yorkshire, England.  Margaret married Father of Miles STANDON 489 circa 1375. Father was born circa 1355.

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The 15 Aug 1382 grant - which is surely the same Pathorne property as in the widow's release - contradicts this, making Mary Talbot's husband Sir John Tempest, not Sir Richard. Given that Hopkinson was - as the article states - a tertiary source (and is also notoriously unreliable), the identity of Mary Talbot's husband and the father of Sir Richard Tempest (1356-1428) would seem best based on the 15 Aug 1382 grant. This would change the pedigree to read that Sir John Tempest of Bracewell (b. perhaps 1330, d. bef 16 Feb 1389/90) m. Mary Talbot and was father to Sir Richard (1356-1428). Sir Richard Tempest of Stodeley (b. bef 18 Oct 1334, d. bef 30 Sep 1382) who m. Mary Clitheroe bef 18 Oct 1355, was likely his younger brother, both the sons (per Scheurman/Hickling's pedigree) of Sir John and Catherine Sherburne.

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• http://washington.ancestryregister.com/TEMPEST200006.htm#i1547
• http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ancestors...
• http://thepeerage.com/p44033.htm#i440330