Robert of Vermandois

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Robert de Vermandois, comte de Meaux et de Troyes

Nicknames: "Count of Troyes", "Robert of /Troyes/", "Robert of Vermandois", "Count of Meaux and Châlons", "Rodbert / Chrodobert / Chrodobertus"
Birthdate:
Birthplace: Meaux, Seine-et-Marne, Ile-de-France, France
Death: Died in Champagne, Dordogne, Aquitaine, France or Troyes, Aube, Champagne-Ardennes, France
Immediate Family:

Son of Herbert II, comte de Vermandois and Adèle de France
Husband of Adelaide of Burgundy
Father of Archambaud de Vermandois; Arnulf de Ganelon; Adèle de Meaux, dite de Vermandois; Heribert V "le jeune" de Vermandois, comte de Troyes; Adelais de Troyes and 1 other
Brother of Adelaide, Alice, Alix, countess of Vermandois; Eudes, count of Vienne & Amiens; Heribert III "le Vieux", Comte d'Omois, Comte de Meaux et Troyes; Reinaldo de Roucy; Albert I, comte de Vermandois and 8 others

Occupation: Count of Meaux and Troyes, Conde de Meaux e Troyes, Greve, Graaf van Meaux en Troyes, Comte de Meaux et Troyes (943-966), Comte, de Meaux, de Chalon, d'Auxerre, d'Avalon, de Troyes, 96, Count of Troyes, Greve av Meaux, Count of Meaux, Comte de Troye
Managed by: Pam Wilson
Last Updated:

About Robert de Vermandois, comte de Meaux et de Troyes

Ben M. Angel's summary:

Relationships:

Parents: Heribert II, Comte de Meaux, de Soissons et de Vermandois (c880 - 943) Adela de Neustrie (b. c898)

Siblings: 1. Eudes/Odo (c915-946), Vicomte de Vienne (922-946) 2. Adela de Vermandois (c915-960, wife of Arnoul I "Le Grand", Comte de Flandres (d.964) 3. Heribert III "Le Vieux" (910/926 - 983/985) Comte d'Omois (943-983/985), Comte de Meaux et de Troyes (967-983/985), husband of Eadgifu of Wessex 4. Hugues (920-962), Archbishop of Rheims (925-932, 940-946) 5. Luitgardis (c.925 - c985) wife of Guillaume I "Longespee" Comte de Normandie and Thibaut "Le Tricheur" Comte de Blois, Vicomte de Tours 7. Adalbert (d. 987), Comte de Vermandois (943-987)

Spouse: Adelais (Wera) de Troyes (930/935 - 967)

Children: 1. Heribert V "le Jeune" (945/950 - 995/996), Comte de Meaux et de Troyes (983/985 - 995/996), husband of the daughter of Etienne/Stephanus, Comte de Gevaudon and Adelais d'Anjou 2. Adela de Meaux (c950 - 974), wife of Geoffroy "Grisegonelle" Comte d'Anjou 3. Adelais de Troyes (c.950/955 - 991), wife of Charles des Francs (953-1001) 4. Archambaud, Archbishop of Sens (959-968)

Basic information:

Birth: Unknown. May be presumed after 925 (his next elder sibling was born after that date, presuming the birth order on FMG is correct). Location unknown, but his father's three capitals were: St-Quentin (Vermandois), Soissons, and Meaux. "Western Francia" would be accurate.

Death: After 966, date of his last known charter. Location unknown (again, "Western Francia" would be accurate - Meaux is in present region Ile de France, while Troyes is in present region Champagne-Ardennes; the Kingdom of Western Francia dissolved on 3 July 987 when France was founded.)

Wedding: Presumed before their first child, born around 945/950. Location unknown.

Burial: Unknown.

Occupation: Comte de Meaux (23 Feb 943 - after 966), Comte de Meaux et de Troyes (6 April 956 - after 966). The dates are based on death dates of the people he inherited his titles from (Adela's father, Giselbert, duc de Bourgogne, by whom he received the County of Troyes, died after Easter 956).

Alternate names: Rodbertus in Latin. ---------------------- From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on Northern France (covering his birth family): http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#Robertdied967A

HERIBERT [II], son of HERIBERT [I] Comte de Vermandois & his wife [Liedgardis] --- ([880]-23 Feb 943, bur Saint Quentin).

None of the sources so far consulted state explicitly that Héribert [II] and his sister Beatrix were the children of Héribert [I] but this looks probable. He succeeded his father in [900/907] as Comte de Meaux, de Soissons et de Vermandois.

Lay Abbot of St Crépin and St Médard at Soissons.

Comte Héribert took part in the rebellion against Charles III “le Simple” King of France in 922 and tricked the ex-king into capture. Héribert consolidated his power by arranging for his young son to be made Archbishop of Reims. Comte Héribert received Péronne from Raoul King of France in 924.

Together with forces of Arnoul I Count of Flanders, Héribert captured the Viking stronghold of Eu[1420]. Following this he apparently forged an alliance with Comte Rollo in [927][1421], leaving his son Eudes with Rollo as a hostage. Comte Héribert unsuccessfully attempted to capture Laon in 927[1422].

He accompanied the king into Burgundy in 928, when his son Eudes was granted the county of Vienne by Ugo King of Italy. With help from Hugues "le Grand" [Capet], King Raoul subdued Vermandois and Comte Héribert made his submission to the king[1423].

In 939. Héribert joined the alliance against Louis IV King of France led by Otto I "der Große" King of Germany, who raided Frankish territory and forced King Louis to renounce his claim to the throne of Lotharingia. Together with Hugues "le Grand" [Capet], Héribert besieged Reims, forcing the restoration of his son as archbishop, and also besieged King Louis at Laon.

Flodoard records the death of "Heribertus comes" in 943 and his burial at Saint-Quentin[1424]. The necrology of Reims Cathedral records the death "VII Kal Mar" of "Heribertus comes"[1425]. On his death in 943, his territories were divided between his sons by their maternal uncle Hugues "le Grand".

m (before 21 May 907) [ADELA], daughter of ROBERT Marquis en Neustrie, Comte de Paris [later ROBERT I King of France] & his first wife [Adela] --- (before 898-).

The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines refers to "comitis Heriberti gener…Roberti" and in a later passage to the sister of "dux Hugo Cappatus" as the wife of "comitis Heriberti de Peroni, Campanie et Veromandie" but does not name her[1426]. Her origin is confirmed by Flodoard naming "Hugo dux cum nepotibus suis, Heriberti filiis" in 943[1427]. Her birth date is estimated from the birth of her first child in [915].

Her name is deduced as follows. The 21 May 907 donation of Rebais abbey to the church of Paris refers to "comitis Rotberti et Adele comitisse"[1428]. Although this phrasing usually indicates husband and wife, Settipani suggests that the chronology of the life of King Robert's son Hugues (attested as Robert's son by his second wife Béatrix) favours his birth, and therefore his father's second marriage, well before 907, which would mean "Adele" could not have been Robert's wife. This reasoning appears based firstly on Hugues already being married in [914], and secondly on the probability of his having reached the age of majority when he was recognised as duke in 922. The 907 document is explained as referring to Robert and his elder daughter. The issue, however, is not beyond doubt, especially if the document in question was misdated.

Her marriage date assumes that this identification is correct.

Comte Héribert II & his wife had seven children:

1. ODO [Eudes] ([915]-after 19 Jun 946). Flodoard records that "Odonis filii sui [=Heriberto]" was appointed vicecomes when Ugo King of Italy gave his father "provintiam Viennensem" in 928[1429]. His father left him in [927] as a hostage with Rollo Comte [de Normandie]. Unlike his father, he swore allegiance to Louis IV "d'Outremer" King of the Franks in 938 and received the guardianship of the royal residence at Laon. He occupied the town and county of Amiens, but was expelled in 944[1430].

2. ADELA de Vermandois ([915]-[Bruges 10 Oct] 960, bur Ghent, St Pieter). The Genealogica Arnulfi Comitis names "Adelam, domni Heriberti comitis filiam" as wife of "comes Arnulfus", specifying that she was "duorum Francorum regum, Odonis atque Rotberti, neptem"[1431]. Flodoard refers to the wife of "Arnoul" as sister of "Hugo [de Vermandois Archbishop of Reims]"[1432]. Her marriage was arranged to seal the alliance made in 934 between her father and her future husband[1433]. "Arnulfus Flandrie comes et marchisus" granted use of property "Snellenghem in pago Flandrensi" to Saint-Pierre de Gand, for "uxore mea…Adala atque…filio meo Balduino et filia mea Lietgardis" and for deceased "Balduino genitore meo et Elstrudis genetrice mea atque Heeberto filio meo", by charter dated 10 Jul 953[1434]. "Adhela comitissa" freed two serfs and granted them to the abbey of Saint-Pierre de Gand, for the soul of "fidelis nostri Amalrici", by charter dated 8 Sep 954, signed by "Balduini comitis…Odacri advocati"[1435]. The Annales Blandinienses record the death in 960 of "Adala comitissa"[1436]. m (934) as his second wife, ARNOUL I "le Grand" Count of Flanders, son of BAUDOUIN II "le Chauve" Count of Flanders & his wife Ælfthryth of Wessex ([885/890]-murdered 27 Mar 964, bur Ghent, St Pieter).

3. HERIBERT [III] "le Vieux" ([910/26]-[983/early 985], bur Lagny). Flodoard names "Heriberti Adalberti fratris" when recording his marriage, and in a later passage "nepotes Hugonis, Heribertus et Rotbertus"[1437]. His date of birth has been estimated at [910/15] by Werner[1438], whereas Settipani supports a later estimate of [925/26][1439]. The former appears more consistent with Héribert's participation in his father's war from 938. If the latter is correct, comte Héribert would have been more than 20 years younger than his wife, which seems unlikely. There appears to be no basis for deciding between one or the other. He is documented with his father between 938 and 942 in the latter's war against King Louis IV, submitting to the king with his father in 942. Under the division of territories organised after his father's death in 943, Héribert became Comte d'Omois and received the fortress of Château-Thierry as well as the abbey of Saint-Médard, Soissons. King Lothaire appointed him comte du palais (comte palatin). He succeeded his brother Robert in 967 as Comte de Meaux et de Troyes. His proposed death date range in [983/early 985] is estimated on the following basis. A letter of Gerbert dated 983 records that "Heriberti Trecassini et Oddonis comitis filii Tedbaldi" were enemies of "Adelbero Remonis archiepiscopus"[1440]. However, a letter dated to Apr 985 names "Ottonis et Heriberti", while a letter dated to mid-985 records that "Ottonem, Heribertum" made peace with the archbishop[1441]. Another letter of Gerbert dated to [late 986/early 987] records that "O et Heribertus comites" were part of the council of Emma Queen of France[1442]. It is assumed that "Oddonis/Ottonem/O" all refer to the same person. However, it is suggested that only the first letter applies to Héribert [III], the change to Héribert [V] (nephew and successor of Héribert [III], son of the latter's brother Robert) being indicated in the subsequent letters by "Heribertum" being named after "Ottonem" instead of before, which suggests that he was the junior of the two from Apr 985. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines records the burial of "comes Trecensis Heribertus II cognomento Vetulus" in "abbatiam Latiniaci"[1443]. m (951) as her second husband, EADGIFU, widow of CHARLES III "le Simple" King of the Franks, daughter of EDWARD I King of Wessex & his second wife Ælfleda --- ([902/05][1444]-26 Sep after 951, bur Abbaye de Saint-Médard de Soissons). Flodoard names "Ottogeba regina, mater Ludowici regis" when recording her second marriage[1445].

4. HUGUES (920-Meaux 962). Flodoard names "Hugone diacono Heriberti filio", when recording his installation as archbishop of Reims in 940[1446]. His father engineered the grant by Raoul King of France of the temporal administration of the archbishopric of Reims to Hugues in 925, the appointment being confirmed by Pope John X, but the grant was withdrawn by the king in 932 after he besieged the city[1447]. Hugues entered holy orders in 940. His father, who had captured Reims in [Jun/Jul] 940, forced Hugues's restoration as archbishop. Besieged at Laon, King Louis IV was obliged to confirm Hugues's appointment as archbishop and also appointed Hugues as his Arch-Chancellor. Hugues was expelled from Reims in 946 when the town was retaken by King Louis. He was finally deprived of his archbishopric by the papal legate in 948. He died on returning from a pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela[1448].

5. LUITGARDIS (before 925-14 Nov after 985, bur Chartres, Abbaye de Saint-Père). Rodulfus Glauber refers to the wife of Comte Guillaume as "sororem [Heribertum Trecorum comitem]", specifying that she was childless by her first husband, when recording her second marriage to "Tetbaldus"[1449]. The Liber Modernorum Regum Francorum refers to the wife of "Tetbaudi comitis" as "sorore Herberti Trecorum comitis"[1450]. "Theobaldi comitis…Ledgardis comitisse" subscribed the charter dated 950 under which Ragnfred Bishop of Chartres donated property to Chartres Saint-Père, although the relationship between the two is not specified[1451]. "Ledgardis" donated property to "Sancti Petri Carnotensis ecclesiam", for the souls of "senioris mei…comitis Tedbaldi…patris mei Heirberti, Trecassini comitis", with the consent of "archipresule…Hugone et…comite Odone, filiis meis", by charter dated 5 Feb 978, signed by "…Emma comitissa Pictavæ urbis…"[1452]. “Ledgardis comitissa necnon Hugo episcopus et filius meus et item filius meus Odo comes” donated property to Saint-Martin de Tours, for the souls of “Theobaldi comitis quondam senioris mei…Richildis quondam sanctimonialis, eiusque filii Richardi episcopi” (referring to “dicti comitis et fratris sui Theobaldi”, in relation to Bishop Richard), by charter dated to [980][1453]. "Hugonis ducis, Odonis comitis, Hugonis sanctæ Bituricensis archipræsulis, Letgardis comitissæ, Bertæ comitissæ, Gauzfridi vicecomitis…" subscribed the charter dated 985 under which "Robertus" donated property to "Sancti Petri Carnotensis", on the advice of "Odonem, simul cum sua matre Ledgarde, pariterque dominam meam Bertam, ipsius æque coniugem"[1454]. The necrology of Chartres cathedral records the death "XVIII Kal Dec" of "Letgardis comitissa"[1455]. m firstly ([940]) as his second wife, GUILLAUME I “Longuespée” Comte [de Normandie], son of ROBERT I [Rollo] Comte [de Normandie] & his [second] wife Poppa de Bayeux (-murdered Péquigny-sur-Somme 17 Dec 942, bur Rouen, cathédrale de Notre-Dame). m secondly ([942/45]) THIBAUT [II] "le Tricheur" Comte de Blois, son of THIBAUT [I] "l'Ancien" Comte de Blois, Vicomte de Tours & his first wife --- (-16 Jan [975/77]). --- 6. ROBERT (-after 19 Jun 966).

"Rodberti filium Heriberti comitis" witnessed a charter of "Gauzfredus comes" dated Jul 940[1456].

Under the division of territories organised after his father's death in 943, Robert became Comte de Meaux.

He became Comte de Troyes in 956 on the death of his father-in-law, by right of his wife. --- 7. ADALBERT [Albert] (-8 Sep 987). Flodoard names "Adalbertus filius Heriberti"[1457]. Under the division of territories organised after his father's death in 943, Albert became Comte de Vermandois.

References:

[1420] Settipani, C. and Kerrebrouck, P. van (1993) La préhistoire des Capétiens 481-987, 1ère partie, Mérovingiens, Carolingiens et Robertiens (Villeneuve d'Ascq), p. 224. [1421] Annals of Flodoard of Reims, quoted in Houts, E. van (ed. and trans.) (2000) The Normans in Europe (Manchester University Press), p. 45. [1422] McKitterick, R. (1983) Frankish Kingdoms under the Carolingians 751-987 (Longman, London and New York), p. 312. [1423] McKitterick (1983), p. 312. [1424] Flodoard 943, MGH SS III, p. 389. [1425] 'Obits mémorables tirés de nécrologes luxembourgeois, rémois et messins', Revue Mabillon VI (1910-1911), p. 273. [1426] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 920 and 988, MGH SS XXIII, pp. 756 and 774. [1427] Flodoard 944, MGH SS III, p. 390. [1428] Diplôme de Charles III, no 57, Lauer, quoted in Settipani (1993), p. 407. [1429] Flodoard 928, MGH SS III, p. 378. [1430] Settipani (1993), p. 226. [1431] Genealogiæ Comitum Flandriæ, Witgeri Genealogica Arnulfi Comitis MGH SS IX, p. 303. [1432] Flodoard 946, MGH SS III, p. 393. [1433] Nicholas, D. (1992) Medieval Flanders (Longman), p. 40. [1434] Lokeren, A. van (1868) Chartes et documents de l´abbaye de Saint Pierre au Mont Blandin à Gand (Gand) ("Gand Saint-Pierre") 22, p. 28. [1435] Gand Saint-Pierre 23, p. 29. [1436] Annales Blandinienses 960, MGH SS V, p. 25. [1437] Flodoard 951 and 952, MGH SS III, p. 401. [1438] Werner, K. F. (1967) 'Die Nachkommen Karls des Großen bis um das Jahr 1000 (1-8 Generation)', Karl der Große, IV, pp. 403-83, cited in Settipani (1993), p. 229. [1439] Bur, M. (1977) La formation du comte de Champagne, vers 950 - vers 1150 (Lille), p. 509, cited in Settipani (1993), p. 229. [1440] Havet, J. (ed.) (1889) Lettres de Gerbert 983-997 (Paris) ("Gerbert") 17, p. 13. [1441] Gerbert 59, p. 58. [1442] Gerbert 97, p. 89. [1443] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 989, MGH SS XXIII, p. 775. [1444] Birth date range estimated from the birth of Eadgifu's son in [920/21]. [1445] Flodoard 951, MGH SS III, p. 401. [1446] Flodoard 940, MGH SS III, p. 387. [1447] Annales Remenses 932, MGH SS XIII, p. 82. [1448] Settipani (1993), p. 227. [1449] Rodulfi Glabri, Historiarum III.39, p. 165. [1450] Hugonis Floriacensis, Liber qui Modernorum Regum Francorum continet Actus 9, MGH SS IX, p. 387. [1451] Chartres Saint-Père, Liber Primus, 130, p. 351. [1452] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Tertius, Cap. VIII, p. 63. [1453] Arbois de Jubainville, H. d´ (1859) Histoire des ducs et des comtes de Champagne Tome I (Paris), p. 461. [1454] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Tertius, Cap. XVIII, p. 77. [1455] Obituaires de Sens Tome II, Eglise cathédrale de Chartres, Nécrologe du xi siècle, p. 23. [1456] Cluny Tome I, 511, p. 496. [1457] Flodoard 949, MGH SS III, p. 399. ------------------------ From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on Champagne Nobility (covering his marriage and children): http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CHAMPAGNE%20NOBILITY.htm#Robertdied967

ROBERT de Vermandois, son of HERIBERT [II] Comte de Vermandois & his wife Adela [Capet] (-after 19 Jun 966). "Rodberti filium Heriberti comitis" witnessed a charter of "Gauzfredus comes" dated Jul 940[1546].

Under the division of the territories organised subsequent to his father's death in 943, Robert became Comte de Meaux.

He became Comte de Troyes in 956 on the death of his father-in-law, by right of his wife.

Richer names "Robertus Trecarum princeps, Heriberti tiranni filius, Hugonis vero abdicate frater" when recording his rebellion against King Lothaire and capture of Dijon in 959[1547].

The Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis records that “Rotbertum comitem” expelled “Ansegisum Trecarum Episcopus” who sought refuge “in Saxoniam ad Ottonem Imperatorem”, dated to 959[1548].

Otto I King of Germany sent his son Bruno to besiege Troyes, and King Lothar attacked Dijon which capitulated in 960[1549].

"Gaufridus…Andecavorum comes" issued a charter dated 19 Jun 966 subscribed by "Roberti comitis Trecassinorum…"[1550].

m (before 950) [as her first husband,] ADELAIS [Wera], daughter of GISELBERT Duc des Bourguignons, Comte de Chalon-sur-Saône et de Troyes & his wife Ermengardis [de Dijon] ([930/35]-after Aug 967).

"Trecassine urbis comitem Robertum" donated land to "Gratianum abbatem monasterii Sancti Petri Dervensis" by charter dated 6 Aug 959, signed by "Adelais comitisse, Erberti filii eorum, Walterii vicecomitis"[1551].

The Chronicle of Saint-Bénigne de Dijon records the death in 956 of "Gislebertus comes Burgundionum", names "filia Leudegarde" and "aliam…filiam…Werram", and the latter's marriage to "Robertus comes Trecassinorum"[1552].

It is unclear why these two sources refer to the wife of Comte Robert by different names, as "Adelais comitisse" who signed the 959 charter must have been the same person as the wife of Robert named in 956 because the former document also refers to "Erberti filii eorum". It is possible that the reference to "Werram" is a transcription error as no other reference to this name has so far been found in other contemporary French sources.

Her birth date range is estimated from her own daughter's estimated birth date of [950].

Comte Robert & his wife had [four] children:

1. HERIBERT [V] "le Jeune" ([945/50]-28 Jan 995 or 996, bur Abbaye de Lagny-en-Mussien). "Trecassine urbis comitem Robertum" donated land to "Gratianum abbatem monasterii Sancti Petri Dervensis" by charter dated 6 Aug 959, signed by "Adelais comitisse, Erberti filii eorum, Walterii vicecomitis"[1553]. He succeeded his father in 966 as Comte de Meaux et Comte de Troyes . It is assumed that Héribert [V] succeeded his paternal uncle Héribert [III] in [983/Apr 985], based on the following argument. A letter of Gerbert dated 983 records that "Heriberti Trecassini et Oddonis comitis filii Tedbaldi" were enemies of "Adelbero Remonis archiepiscopus"[1554]. However, a letter dated to Apr 985 names "Ottonis et Heriberti", while a letter dated to mid-985 records that "Ottonem, Heribertum" made peace with the archbishop[1555]. Another letter of Gerbert dated to [late 986/early 987] records that "O et Heribertus comites" were part of the council of Emma Queen of France[1556]. It is assumed that "Oddonis/Ottonem/O" all refer to the same person. However, it is suggested that only the first letter applies to Héribert [III], the change to Héribert [V] being indicated in the subsequent letters by "Heribertum" being named after "Ottonem" instead of before, which suggests that he was the junior of the two from Apr-985. On the death of his paternal uncle Héribert [III] "le Vieux", Lothaire King of France invested him with Epernay and le Perthois. He helped King Lothaire conquer Lotharingia, and imprisoned the comte de Verdun[1557]. m ---. 959. The name of Héribert's wife is not known. Bur suggests[1558] that she was a daughter of Etienne [Stephanus] Comte de Gévaudan & his second wife Adelais d'Anjou, basing his theory on the transmission of the name "Stephanus" to the couple's son. Héribert [V] & his wife had one child, STEPHANUS [Etienne] (-[1 Jun 1019/9 Jun 1021], bur Abbaye de Lagny-en-Mussien).


2. ADELA de Meaux ([950]-974 after 6 Mar). Adela, wife of Comte Geoffroy, is named as daughter of Comte Robert in two 12th century Angevin genealogies[1563]. Her marriage date is estimated based on the estimated birth date of her oldest daughter. "Adela" donated property to Saint-Aubin d'Angers by charter dated 6 Mar 974 which names "seniore meo Gauzfredo comite" and is subscribed by "Gauzfredi comitis, Fulconis filii eius, Gauzfredi filii eius"[1564]. The Chronicæ Sancti Albini names "Adela comitissa…et marito suo Gaufrido" as present at the ordination of "Rainaldus episcopus" in 1074[1565]. "Fulco Andecavorum comes" relinquished rights to the bishop of Angers "pro anima patris mei Gauffredi et matris Adelæ" by charter dated 17 Jan 1020[1566]. m ([965]) as his first wife, GEOFFROY I “Grisegonelle” Comte d'Anjou, son of FOULQUES II Comte d’Anjou & his first wife Gerberge [de Maine] (-21 Jul 987).

3. [ADELAIS de Troyes ([950/55]-after 991). The Historia Francorum Senonensis refers to the wife of "Karolus" as "filiam Herberti comitis Trecarum"[1567]. Assuming the birth of the couple's eldest son in 970, this could not refer to Héribert, son of Robert, whose birth is dated to [950]. It is also unlikely to have been Héribert II Comte de Vermandois, father of Robert, who was not Comte de Troyes. Settipani suggests[1568] that the Historia must be in error and that her father was Robert Comte de Troyes. This would not be the only error in this source, as the Historia also refers to "Karolus, frater eius [=Hludovicus], filius Hlotharii regis" when recording his "succession" in 987[1569]. The Chronico Richardi Pictavensis also names "Carolus uxore sua…filia Herberti Comitis Trecarum"[1570], presumably based on the same source as the Historia. Her name is recorded by Richer, who states that "Karolum…cum uxore Adelaide et filio Ludovico, et filiabus duabus, quarum altera Gerberga, altera Adelaidis dicebatur, necnon et Arnulfo nepote" were imprisoned by Hugues "Capet" King of France[1571]. Orderic Vitalis links to the two sets of references by recording that Charles was imprisoned with his wife who was the daughter of Heribert Comte de Troyes[1572]. An interesting twist to this apparently straight-forward explanation is provided by another passage in Richer which refers disparagingly to Charles's marriage to "uxorem de militari ordine sibi imparem"[1573]. It is difficult to imagine this description being appropriate to the Vermandois/Carolingian origin of Charles's known wife. Ferdinand Lot therefore proposed that the text means that Charles was married twice[1574]. If such a second marriage did take place, it must have occurred at the height of the dispute between Charles and his brother King Lothar around [975]. At that time Charles was challenging his brother's authority to rule, and it is difficult to imagine that he would weaken his own position by contracting an unequal marriage. The comment by Richer could presumably be explained by his personal dislike of the Vermandois family. m ([970]) CHARLES de France, son of LOUIS IV "d'Outremer" King of the Franks & his wife Gerberga von Sachsen (Laon summer 953-in prison Orléans after 991, bur 1001 Maastricht, St Servatius). He was invested as Duke of Lower Lotharingia by Emperor Otto II in May 977.]

4. [ARCHAMBAUD (-29 Aug 968, bur Sens Saint-Pierre-le-Vif). Archbishop of Sens 959. The Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis records that “Archembaldus” was installed as archbishop “V Kal Jul”, in 959 from the context[1575]. According to Gallia Christiana[1576], Archambaud Archbishop of Sens was the son of Robert Comte de Troyes and his wife Adelais de Bourgogne. This may be based on the Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis which records the death “in…mense Augusto” (in 968 from the context) of “pater ipsius Rotbertus…vir nobilis”, referring to archbishop Archambaud[1577], assuming that this refers to Robert Comte de Troyes whose activities are recorded earlier in the same source. However, the chronology is unfavourable for this parentage to be correct. The Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis records the death “IV Kal Sep” (in 968 from the context) of “Archembaldus Archiepiscopus…adhuc iuvenis” and his burial “in basilica beati Petri”[1578]. Although stated to be “iuvenis” when he died, he must have been a young child when installed as archbishop if the estimated dates of marriage and birth of the members of Comte Robert´s family are correct. His extreme youth at the time of his appointment is not commented on in the sources so far consulted. In any case, the name Archambaud is not otherwise found in the family of the comtes de Vermandois, which also suggests that the suggested parentage might not be correct.]

References:

[1546] Cluny, Tome I, 511, p. 496. [1547] Richer III.XI, p. 12. [1548] Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis, Spicilegium II, p. 470. [1549] Settipani (1993), p. 231. [1550] Broussillon, B. de (ed.) (1903) Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Saint-Aubin d'Angers (Paris) (“Angers Saint-Aubin”) 2, p. 4. [1551] Montiéramey 14, p. 19. [1552] Chronicle of Saint-Bénigne de Dijon 956, p. 135, quoted in Settipani (1993), p. 232 footnote 299, although this reference does not appear in the edition consulted. [1553] Montiéramey 14, p. 19. [1554] Havet, J. (ed.) (1889) Lettres de Gerbert 983-997 (Paris) (“Gerbert”) 17, p. 13. [1555] Gerbert 59, p. 58. [1556] Gerbert 97, p. 89. [1557] The letters of Gerbert cited above, and Settipani (1993), p. 234. [1558] Bur, M. 'A propos du nom d'Etienne: le mariage aquitain de Louis V et la devolution des comtés champenois', Annales de Midi (1990), pp. 339-47, cited in Settipani (1993), p. 233. [1559] Rodulfi Glabri, Historiarum III.5, p. 105. [1560] Miracula S. Aigulphi I, 1, Acta Sanctorum, Sep I, p. 758. [1561] RHGF X, p. 602, and Arbois de Jubainville, H. d´ (1859) Histoire des ducs et des comtes de Champagne Tome I (Paris), p. 465. [1562] Miracula S. Aigulphi I, 1, Acta Sanctorum, Sep I, p. 758. [1563] Settipani (1993), p. 233, citing Halphen, L. and Poupardin, R. (1913) Chroniques des comtes d'Anjou et seigneurs d'Amboise (Paris), p. 249. [1564] Angers Saint-Aubin I, 3, p. 7. [1565] Chronicæ sancti Albini Andegavensis, Chroniques des Eglises d'Anjou, p. 20. [1566] Angers 22, p. 52. [1567] Hugonis Floriacensis, Historia Francorum Senonensis, MGH SS IX, p. 368. [1568] Settipani (1993), pp. 337-39 footnote 1010. [1569] Hugonis Floriacensis, Historia Francorum Senonensis, MGH SS IX, p. 367. [1570] Chronico Richardi Pictavensis, RHGF IX, p. 22. [1571] Richeri Historiæ IV 49, MGH SS III, p. 642. [1572] Orderic Vitalis I, p. 160. [1573] Richeri Historiæ IV 11, MGH SS III, p. 633. [1574] Lot, F. (1891) Les derniers Carolingiens, Lothaire, Louis V, Charles de Lorraine (954-991) (Paris, Bibliothèque de l'Ecole pratique des hautes études fasc. 87), p. 209 n. 2, cited in Settipani (1993), p. 337 footnote 1010. [1575] Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis, Spicilegium II, p. 470. [1576] Gallia Christiana, Sens et Auxerre, p. 34. [1577] Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis, Spicilegium II, p. 470. [1578] Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis, Spicilegium II, p. 470. -------------------- From the English Wikipedia page on Robert of Vermandois: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_of_Vermandois

Robert of Vermandois (c. 920-967/8) was Count of Meaux after his father, Herbert II of Vermandois, and mother, Liegarde (Liegoude) of France.

He was married to Adelaide (920-967) of Burgundy, daughter of Giselbert, Duke of Burgundy. They had three children:

1. Herbert III, Count of Meaux (c. 950-995) 2. Adele of Meaux, (c. 950-c. 980) 3. Adelaide of Troyes (c. 955-c. 991), wife of Charles, Duke of Lower Lorraine.

References

Foundation for Medieval Genealogy on Robert of Vermandois, Count of Troyes and Meaux http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CHAMPAGNE%20NOBILITY.htm#Robertdied967

"(Selected) Ancestors of Joseph Bolles (1608-1678)"; Drawn by Richard L. Humphrey, 1965; Revised and edited by James Bolles, 1992. -------------------- From the Dutch Wikipedia page on Robert I van Meaux: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_I_van_Meaux

Robert I van Meaux (ca. 910 - 19 juni 966) was een zoon van Herbert II van Vermandois en van Adelheid van Frankrijk. In 946 werd de erfenis van zijn vader zoveel mogelijk versnipperd door Hugo de Grote en werd Robert graaf van Meaux. Hij trouwde met Adelheid, erfdochter van Giselbert van Chalon en verwierf zo de graafschappen Chalon-sur-Saône, Troyes en Baume. Uit hun huwelijk zou het graafschap Champagne ontstaan. In 959 nam hij Dijon in en verdreef hij de bisschop van Troyes. In beide gevallen moest hij echter opgeven onder druk van respectievelijk Lotharius van Frankrijk en Bruno de Grote.

Robert was gehuwd met Adelheid (ca. 928 - na augustus 987), dochter van Giselbert van Chalon en Ermengarde van Bourgondië, en werd vader van:

1. Heribert (950-995)

2. Adelheid, gehuwd met Godfried I van Anjou (-987) een dochter gehuwd met Karel van Neder-Lotharingen.

3. mogelijk Archambaud (- 29 augustus 968), aartsbisschop van Sens vanaf 959, begraven in de Saint-Pierre-le-Vif te Sens

Robert I van Meaux 931 -975

Graaf van Meaux Periode 943-966 Voorganger: Herbert II Opvolger: Herbert

Graaf van Troyes Periode 950-975 Voorganger - nieuw Opvolger: Heribert van Troyes

Graaf van Chalon Periode 956-968 Voorganger: Manasses I Opvolger: Lambert I

Vader: Herbert II van Vermandois Moeder: Adelheid van Frankrijk

(No sources) -------------------- From Darryl Lundy's Peerage page on Robert, Comte de Troyes: http://thepeerage.com/p15039.htm#i150390

Robert, Comte de Troyes (1) M, #150390, d. circa 975 Last Edited=11 Jul 2005

Robert, Comte de Troyes was the son of Heribert II, Comte de Vermandois and Liégarde de France. (1), (2) He married Adela de Troyes circa 950. (1)

He died circa 975. (1)

Robert, Comte de Troyes gained the title of Comte de Troyes in 950. (1)

Child of Robert, Comte de Troyes and Adela de Troyes 1. Heribert 'the Younger', Comte de Troyes+ d. 995 (1)

Child of Robert, Comte de Troyes and Adelheide de Bourgogne

1. Adelais de Vermandois+ b. c 950, d. a 975

Citations

1. [S38] John Morby, Dynasties of the World: a chronological and genealogical handbook (Oxford, Oxfordshire, U.K.: Oxford University Press, 1989), page 85. Hereinafter cited as Dynasties of the World.

2. [S102] Roglo Geneweb Website, online <http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=en>. Hereinafter cited as Roglo Geneweb Website. -------------------- From the Familypedia page on Robert de Vermandois: http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Robert_de_Vermandois_%28918-968%29

Robert de Vermandois (918-968) Carolingian (surname) Edited by Rtol

Robert de Vermandois

Birth: 920 Death: 968 Seine-et-Marne (department), France Father: Herbert II, Count of Vermandois (884-943) Mother: Hildebranda of France (895–931) Spouse: Adelaide-Werra de Chalon (920-967)

Robert de Vermandois (918-968) was born on an unknown date .

Children by an unknown parent 1. Herbert III of Meaux (c950-995) 2. Adele of Meaux (c950-c980) 3. Adelaide de Troyes (c955-c991)

(No sources cited) -------------------- From the French Wikipedia page on Robert I de Meaux: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ier_de_Meaux

Robert de Vermandois[1], né entre 931 et 934, mort en 966, fut comte de Meaux de 946 à 966 et de Troyes de 956 à 966. Il était fils d'Herbert II, comte de Vermandois, et d'Adèle de France.

Cité dès 940, il n'obtient le comté de Meaux qu'au moment du partage des terres de son père, en 946, c’est-à-dire trois ans après sa mort. Par mariage il reçoit le comté de Troyes, l'union de ces deux comtés étant à l'origine du comté de Champagne. En 959, il s'empare de la ville de Dijon et en chasse l'évêque, mais il est attaqué en 960 par les rois Lothaire de France et Otton de Germanie et doit se soumettre.

Mariage et enfants

Il avait épousé peu avant 950 Adélaïde, dite Werra, fille de Gilbert, comte principal des Bourguignons, de Châlon, de Beaune, d'Autun, de Troyeset de Dijon, et d'Ermengarde. Ils avaient eu :

1. Herbert IV (v.950 † 995), comte de Meaux, de Troyes et d'Omois 2. Adèle (v.950 † 974), mariée vers 965 avec Geoffroy Ier Grisegonelle († 987), comte d'Anjou 3. D'après Christian Settipani, Adelais de Troyes[2], mariée vers 970 avec Charles, duc de Basse-Lotharingie.

Adèle a longtemps été considérée comme la sœur de Robert, mais les éléments qui aboutissaient à cette conclusion se sont révélés insuffisants. Dernièrement, l'historien K.F.Werner a montré qu'Adèle était plutôt la fille de Robert.

Précédé par Robert Ier de Meaux Suivi par Herbert II comte de Meaux Herbert IV Gilbert comte de Troyes Herbert IV

Notes et références

1.↑ Robert de Vermandois sur le site Foundation for Medieval Genealogy http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CHAMPAGNE%20NOBILITY.htm#Robertdied967

2.↑ Adelais de Troyes sur le site Foundation for Medieval Genealogy http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CHAMPAGNE%20NOBILITY.htm#dauRobertM970CharlesFrance

Source

Christian Settipani, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, vol. 1), éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993 (ISBN 2-9501509-3-4) --- In English: Robert de Vermandois was born between 931 and 934, and died in 966. He was the Comte de Meaux from 946 to 966 and of Troyes from 956 to 966. He was the son of Herbert II, Comte de Vermandois, and Adela of France.

He obtained the County of Meaux as an inheritance from his father in 946, that is three years after his death. By marriage, he received the County of Troyes, and the union of these two counties resulted in the creation of the County of Champagne. In 959 he captured the city of Dijon and drove out the bishop, but he is attacked by Kings Lothair of France and Otto of Germany in 960 and forced to submit.

Marriage and children:

Robert married shortly before 950 Adelaide (also called Werra), daughter of Gilbert, Comte Principal de Bourguignons, de Chalon, de Beaune, d'Autun, de Troyeset de Dijon, et d'Ermengarde. They had:

1. Herbert IV (c. 950 to 995), Comte de Meaux, Troyes, et Omois. 2. Adele (c. 950 to 974), married around 965 with Geoffrey I Grisegonelle (d. 987), Comte d'Anjou. 3. (According to Christian Settipani) Adelais Troyes, married to Charles, Duke of Lower Lorraine in 970.

Adelaide has long been regarded as the sister of Robert, but the evidence of this is inconclusive. Recently, historian K.F. Werner showed that Adelaide is instead the daughter of Robert (Adele) -------------------- Robert of Vermandois was Count of Meaux after his father, Herbert II of Vermandois, and mother, Liegarde (Liegoude) of France. He was married to Adelaide of Burgundy, daughter of Giselbert, Duke of Burgundy. They had three children, including our ancestor Adele. -------------------- Robert married Adélaïde D' AUXERRE Dame de Donzy, daughter of Giselbert DE BOURGOGNE Count of Chalons & Burgundy and Ermengarde DE BOURGOGNE, before 944 573. (Adélaïde D' AUXERRE Dame de Donzy was born about 928 in Auxerre, Yonne, Bourgogne, France and died after 19 Aug 967 611.)

http://www.celtic-casimir.com/webtree/2/29480.htm

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Robert of Vermandois's Timeline

910
910
Meaux, Seine-et-Marne, Ile-de-France, France
930
930
Age 20
Of, Vermandois, Normandy, France
940
940
Age 30
Vermandois,Normandy,,France
943
943
- 966
Age 33
Meaux, France
945
945
Age 35
Vermandois, Normandy, France
950
950
Age 40
950
Age 40
Of, Vermandois, Normandy, France
950
Age 40
Of, France
956
956
- 966
Age 46
Troyes, France
966
June 19, 966
Age 56
Champagne, Dordogne, Aquitaine, France or Troyes, Aube, Champagne-Ardennes, France