Roger 'le Poitevin' de Montgomery, comte de la Marche (c.1058 - 1123) MP

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Nicknames: ""le Poitevin"", "Lord of Lancaster Roger /De Montgomery/", "Roger /Poitevin/", "Earl Of Lancaster & Arundel", ""le /Poitevin"/"
Birthplace: Marche, Poitou, France
Death: Died in Charroux, France
Occupation: Comte
Managed by: Noel Clark Bush
Last Updated:

About Roger 'le Poitevin' de Montgomery, comte de la Marche

Roger 'le Poitevin' Montgommerie, Comte de la Marche

Parents: Roger II de Montgomerie & Mabile d'Alençon Spouse: Almodis de la Marche Children: 1. Audebert 2. Boson 3. Eudes 4. Pontia 5. Avise de Lancastria (uncertain)

LINKS http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ANGOULEME.htm#RogerMontgommerydied1123 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_the_Poitevin

MEDIEVAL LANDS

ROGER de Montgommery "le Poitevin" (-1123). Guillaume de Jumièges names (in order) "Robert et Hugues, Roger le Poitevin, Philippe et Arnoul, et les filles Emma, Mathilde, Mabille et Sibylle" as the five sons and four daughters of "Roger de Montgomeri" and his wife Mabile[460]. He is named and his parentage given by Orderic Vitalis, who lists him third among his father's sons by his first marriage[461]. "Roger ex Northmannis Northmannus son of Roger" donated property to St Martin, Troarn for the soul of "his wife Mabel lately deceased" by charter dated to [1079/82], subscribed by "Rogerii comitis, Rotberti filii eius, Hugonis, Rogerii, Philippi, Arnulfis [filiorum eius]"[462]. "Rotbertus de Belismo filius Rotgerii comitis et Mabilie" donated the church of Saint-Léonard de Bellême, built by "Willelmus attavus Rotberti", to Marmoutier, with the consent of "fratres ipsius Rotberti, Hugo, Rotgerius, Arnulfus", by charter dated 1092[463]. He was a considerable landowner in England especially in Lancashire but was banished in 1102 with his brother Robert and retired to Poitou[464]. Comte de la Marche in 1113, de iure uxoris.

m (before 1091) ALMODIS de la Marche, daughter of AUDEBERT [II] Comte de la Marche & his wife Ponce --- (-[1117/29]). The Chronicle of Saint-Maxence records that "Boso comes de Marchia" was killed "Confolento castro" in 1091 and was succeeded by "Aumodis soror sua", wife of "Rotgerio comite"[465]. "Rotgerius comes et Almodis comitissa" donated property to the abbey of Charroux by charter dated [1090/1100][466]. She succeeded as Ctss de La Marche in 1098.

ROGER de Montgommery, son of ROGER [II] de Montgommery, Sire d'Alençon, Earl of Shropshire and Shrewsbury & his first wife Mabile d'Alençon (-1123). His parentage is stated by Orderic Vitalis, who lists him third among his father's sons by his first marriage[73]. He was a considerable landowner in England especially in Lancashire but was banished in 1102 with his brother Robert and retired to Poitou[74]. Comte de la Marche, de iure uxoris. "Comite Rotgerio et eius uxore comitissa de Marchia" are named in a charter dated to [1113/24] which records an agreement with the monks of Uzerche relating to the appointment of the abbot "in Agidunensi ecclesia"[75].

m (before 1091) ALMODIS de la Marche, daughter of AUDEBERT [II] Comte de la Marche & his wife Ponce --- (-[1117/29]). The Chronicle of Saint-Maxence records that "Boso comes de Marchia" was killed "Confolento castro" in 1091 and was succeeded by "Aumodis soror sua", wife of "Rotgerio comite"[76]. "Rotgerius comes et Almodis comitissa" donated property to the abbey of Charroux by charter dated [1090/1100][77]. She succeeded as Ctss de la Marche in 1091. "Aalmodis comitissa Marchiæ et filius meus Boso" confirmed the donation of property "in parrochia Cambartensi et in parrochia Sancti Ylarii de Las Corbas et in parrochia de Trainiaco", held by "patre meo Aldeberto et…avunculo meo Oddone", by "avunculus meus Oddo comes" by charter dated 23 Mar 1112[78]. "Aldebertus comes, filius…Aalmodis comitissæ, frater Bosonis" confirmed his mother´s donation referred to above by charter dated 7 Apr 1113, witnessed by "Almodis comitissa mater Aldeberti…"[79]. "Comite Rotgerio et eius uxore comitissa de Marchia" are named in a charter dated to [1113/24] which records an agreement with the monks of Uzerche relating to the appointment of the abbot "in Agidunensi ecclesia"[80]. A charter dated to [1124/29] relating to a dispute between the abbé de Charroux and the abbesse de Fontevrault refers to a previous donation with the consent of "Almodi comitissa Charofensi ac filius eius Audeberto et Bosone"[81].

Roger & his wife had [five] children:

1. AUDEBERT [III] (-before Feb 1168). "Aldebertus comes, filius…Aalmodis comitissæ, frater Bosonis" confirmed his mother´s donation referred to above by charter dated 7 Apr 1113, witnessed by "Almodis comitissa mater Aldeberti…"[82]. A charter dated to [1124/29] relating to a dispute between the abbé de Charroux and the abbesse de Fontevrault refers to a previous donation with the consent of "Almodi comitissa Charofensi ac filius eius Audeberto et Bosone"[83]. The Chronicle of Saint-Maxence records that "Rotgerio comite" & his wife had two sons[84]. "Odo comes" donated property to Tulle, with the consent of "fratre meo Aldeberto", by charter dated to [1106][85]. Comte de La Marche. m ORENGARDE, daughter of ---. The primary source which confirms her marriage has not yet been identified. 1145. Audebert [III] & his wife had three children:

a) AUDEBERT [IV] (-Constantinople 29 Aug 1178, or 1180, or 7 Oct 1187, bur "Barbeu"). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. However, it is hinted by the Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis which records that "Gaufredus de Lesigniaco" claimed to be Audebert's heir[86]. Comte de la Marche 1145. The Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis records that he sold his properties to Henry II King of England for "quinque mille marchis argenti" and left for Jerusalem, dated to [1178] from the context[87]. A charter dated Feb 1179 recounts disputes between the Knights Templars and the Knights Hospitallers, subscribed by "…Adelbertus, comes Marche…"[88]. The Chronicon Bernardi Iterii records the death in 1178 of "Audebertus comes de la Marcha"[89], although this is apparently incorrectly dated if the preceding charter is correct. The Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis records the death "Constantinopoli in Decollatione S. Joannis-Baptistæ" of "Comes de Marchia ultimus Audebertus" and his burial "in Cœnobio…Barbeu" (in 1180 from the context)[90]. One of the fragmentary chronicles of Saint-Marcial records the death "Non Oct" in 1187 of "Audebertus comes Marchie"[91]. The obituaire de Saint-Marcial records the death "III Kal Sep" of "Audebertus comes de Marchie"[92]. m (repudiated) as her first husband, MIRABLE, daughter of ---. The primary source which confirms her marriage has not yet been identified. 1174/77. One of the fragmentary chronicles of Saint-Marcial records the death "Non Oct" in 1187 of "Audebertus comes Marchie", stating that "iste comes" repudiated his wife and, it was said, killed her and her companion secretly[93]. She married secondly Chalon de Pons. The Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis records the marriage of "Chalo de Pons" and "uxorem [comitis de Marchia Aldeberti]"[94]. Audebert [IV] & his wife had two children:

i) MARQUIS (-[1174/78]). "Audebertus comes Marchie" donated property after the death of "filii sui Marquisii" by charter dated to [before 1177][95]. The Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis records that "comes de Marchia Aldebertus, unici filii morte", dated to [1178] from the context[96].

ii) MARQUISE . One of the fragmentary chronicles of Saint-Marcial records the death "Non Oct" in 1187 of "Audebertus comes Marchie", and names "Marquisiam sterilem" as his only surviving child[97]. m (before 1172) GUILLAUME "Calvus".

b) BOSON [V] (-1172 or after). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Comte de La Marche.

c) MARQUISE . The Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis records that "Guido Vicecomes" married "Marquisia sorore Audeberti Comitis de Marchia" but died childless[98]. m GUY Vicomte de Limoges, son of ARCHAMBAUD [IV] "le Barbu" Vicomte de Comborn & his wife Humberge [Brunissent] de Limoges (-Antioch 1148).

2. BOSON [IV] (-1118). "Aalmodis comitissa Marchiæ et filius meus Boso" confirmed the donation of property "in parrochia Cambartensi et in parrochia Sancti Ylarii de Las Corbas et in parrochia de Trainiaco", held by "patre meo Aldeberto et…avunculo meo Oddone", by "avunculus meus Oddo comes" by charter dated 23 Mar 1112[99]. A charter dated to [1124/29] relating to a dispute between the abbé de Charroux and the abbesse de Fontevraud refers to a previous donation with the consent of "Almodi comitissa Charofensi ac filius eius Audeberto et Bosone"[100]. Comte de La Marche. "Boso consul de la Marcha" donated property to the priory of Aureil by charter dated to [1115][101].

3. EUDES [II] (-1135). "Odo comes" donated property to Tulle, with the consent of "fratre meo Aldeberto", by charter dated to [1106][102]. Comte de La Marche.

4. PONTIA de la Marche . The Historia Pontificum et Comitum Engolismensis names "Pontia filia Comitis de Marcha" as wife of Comte Vulgrin II and mother of his successor[103]. Her descendants ultimately inherited the county of La Marche after the death of her nephew Audebert [IV]. m as his first wife, VULGRIN II Comte d'Angoulême, son of GUILLAUME V "Taillefer" Comte d'Angoulême & his wife Vitapoi de Bezaunes et de Beanuges [Albret] (-16 Sep 1140).

5. [AVISE de Lancastria (-after 1149). The Cartulary of Darley records the donation of “Avicia de Lancastria uxor W Peverel”, undated[104]. The Complete Peerage speculates that the second wife of William Peveril was the daughter of Roger de Montgommery Lord of Lancaster and his wife Almodis Ctss de la Marche[105]. However, this is not an ideal fit. Her supposed father was banished in 1102 and retired to La Marche so it is unclear why Avise would have been described as “de Lancastria” in a charter which must have been dated about 40 years later. In any case, the chronology also appears unfavourable. It is unlikely that Almodis de la Marche was born much later than 1070, given the known chronology of her family, which means that her children would probably have been born before 1110 at the latest. However, it is likely that William Peveril´s second marriage should be dated to the early 1140s at the earliest as his first wife is named in one of the charters of Stephen King of England (who succeeded in 1135), rather late if his second bride had been born in the early 1100s. m ([1140/45]) as his second wife, WILLIAM Peveril of Nottingham, son of WILLIAM Peveril of Nottingham & his wife Adeline --- ([1100/05]-after 1155).]

---------------------------- WIKIPEDIA Roger the Poitevin (Roger de Poitou) was born in Normandy, around the year 1058, and died between 1122 and 1140. He was an Anglo-Norman aristocrat, who possessed large holdings in both England and (in right of his wife) in France.

He was the third son of Roger of Montgomery, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury and Mabel of Bellême. The appellation "the Poitevin" was for his marriage to an heiress from Poitou (see below).

Around 1074 Roger acquired, probably through the influence of his father, a great lordship in England, with lands in Salfordshire, Essex, Suffolk, Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Lincolnshire and Hampshire. The principal part of the Lordship -— Salfordshire —- was in what was then called inter Mersam et Ripam, that is, "between the Mersey and the Ribble", and is now part of Lancashire.

Also before 1086 he married Almodis, daughter of Count Aldebert II of La Marche in Poitou, and sister and presumptive heiress of count Boso III who was childless and unmarried.

The children of Roger and Almodis include:

   * Aldebert IV of La Marche
   * Boso IV of La Marche
   * Odo II of La Marche
   * Pontia of La Marche, who married Wulgrin II of Angoulême
   * Avice de Lancaster

References

   * Chandler, Victoria (1989) "The Last of the Montgomerys: Roger the Poitevin and Arnulf", in Historical Research, 62 (1989) p. 1-14
   * Lewis, C. P. (1989) "The King and Eye: a Study in Anglo-Norman Politics", English Historical Review, 104 (1989) p. 569-87

-------------------- Roger the Poitevin (Roger de Poitou) was born in Normandy, around the year 1058, and died between 1122 and 1140. He was an Anglo-Norman aristocrat, who possessed large holdings in both England and (in right of his wife) in France.

He was the third son of Roger of Montgomery, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury and Mabel of Bellême. The appellation "the Poitevin" was for his marriage to an heiress from Poitou (see below).

Around 1074 Roger acquired, probably through the influence of his father, a great lordship in England, with lands in Salfordshire, Essex, Suffolk, Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Lincolnshire and Hampshire. The principal part of the Lordship -— Salfordshire —- was in what was then called inter Mersam et Ripam, that is, "between the Mersey and the Ribble", and is now part of Lancashire.

Also before 1086 he married Almodis, daughter of Count Aldebert II of La Marche in Poitou, and sister and presumptive heiress of count Boso III who was childless and unmarried.

Around 1091 Roger's brother-in-law Boso died, but Roger was apparently preoccupied with Norman and English affairs, and his wife's uncle Odo became count of La Marche.

In 1092 Roger acquired a large part of what is now north Lancashire. These grants gave Roger effective control of all the lands north of the River Ribble to the River Lune, which formed a natural border between the secure Norman lands in England and the strongly contested Scottish frontier lands in Cumberland. Due to long established lines of communication across Morecambe Bay, Roger also assumed authority over the regions of Furness and Cartmel; these remained a part of Lancashire until as recently as 1974. The expansion of Roger's lands followed his support of King William II Rufus's invasion of Cumbria in AD1092, where Dolfin of Dunbar probably ruled as a vassal of Scottish King Malcolm Canmore(Alternatively, after c. AD 1070 Dolfin may have seized and ruled Cumbria as an independent Lord with an ancestry that traced back to another Dolfin, son of Thorfinn, and the ancient Lords of Cumbria). Dolfin was driven out and the Anglo-Scottish border was established north of Carlisle. Roger also acquired the great honour of Eye centered in Suffolk. [edit] 1094 and after

Roger's father died in 1094, leaving his estates to Roger's elder brothers, and Roger now had to pick his own course in the complicated politics of late 11th century England and France. His first big choice came later in 1094, during the conflicts between William Rufus and Robert Curthose. Rufus had been generous to Roger and was his overlord in England, while Roger's elder brother Robert was loyal to Curthose.

Rufus sent Roger to hold the castle at Argentan in Normandy, but Roger quickly and without a fight surrendered it to Philip I of France, who was an ally of Curthose. Naturally he lost Rufus's trust and had little influence on the remaining four years of the reign.

Roger, along with his brothers, was a supporter of Curthose in his conflicts with Henry I of England during the early years of Henry's reign. After their failed rebellion of 1102, they lost their English holdings and were exiled.

Roger then went to his wife's holdings in Poitou. Almodis's uncle Odo was ousted as count of La Marche in 1104, and subsequently the sons of Roger and Almodis are styled as count. Roger himself appears not have had much influence in affairs there, and in 1109 he was permitted to return to England (Robert Curthose having in the interim been defeated and imprisoned), where he stayed for a while but did not recover his earlier holdings. [edit] Offspring

The children of Roger and Almodis include:

   * Aldebert IV of La Marche
   * Boso IV of La Marche
   * Odo II of La Marche
   * Pontia of La Marche, who married Wulgrin II of Angoulême
   * Avice de Lancaster

[edit] References

   * Chandler, Victoria (1989) "The Last of the Montgomerys: Roger the Poitevin and Arnulf", in Historical Research, 62 (1989) p. 1-14
   * Lewis, C. P. (1989) "The King and Eye: a Study in Anglo-Norman Politics", English Historical Review, 104 (1989) p. 569-87
   * Cokayne, G. E. (date?) Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom; pp. IV & Appendix I, pp. 762–5

From Wikipedia -------------------- Roger the Poitevin (Roger de Poitou) was born in Normandy, around the year 1058, and died between 1122 and 1140. He was an Anglo-Norman aristocrat, who possessed large holdings in both England and (in right of his wife) in France. He was the third son of Roger of Montgomery, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury and Mabel of Bellême. The appellation "the Poitevin" was for his marriage to an heiress from Poitou (see below). Around 1074 Roger acquired, probably through the influence of his father, a great lordship in England, with lands in Lancashire (which however had not yet been established as a county), Essex, Suffolk, Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Lincolnshire and Hampshire. The principal part of the Lordship was in was then called inter Mersam et Ripam, that is, "between the Mersey and the Ribble", and is now part of Lancashire. Also before 1086 he married Almodis, daughter of count Aldebert II of La Marche in Poitou, and sister and presumptive heiress of the childless and unmarried count Boso III. Around 1091 Roger's brother-in-law Boso died, but Roger was apparently preoccupied with Norman and English affairs, and his wife's uncle Odo became count of La Marche. In 1092 Roger acquired a large part of what is now north Lancashire. These grants gave Roger effective control of all the lands north of the River Ribble to the River Lune, which formed a natural border between the secure Norman lands in England and the strongly contested Scottish frontier lands in Cumberland. Due to long established lines of communication across Morecambe Bay, Roger also assumed authority over the regions of Furness and Cartmel; these remained a part of Lancashire until as recently as 1974. The expansion of Roger's lands followed his support of King William II Rufus's invasion of Cumbria in AD1092, where Dolfin of Dunbar probably ruled as a vassal of Scottish King Malcolm Canmore(Alternatively, after c.AD1070 Dolfin may have seized and ruled Cumbria as an independent Lord with an ancestry that traced back to another Dolfin, son of Thorfinn, and the ancient Lords of Cumbria). Dolfin was driven out and the Anglo-Scottish border was established north of Carlisle. Roger also acquired the great honour of Eye centered in Suffolk. Roger's father died in 1094, leaving his estates to Roger's elder brothers. Roger now had to pick his own course in the complicated politics of late 11th century England and France. His first big choice came later in 1094, during the conflicts between William Rufus and Robert Curthose. Rufus had been generous to Roger and was his overlord in England, while Roger's elder brother Robert was loyal to Curthose. Rufus sent Roger to hold the castle at Argentan in Normandy, but Roger quickly and without a fight surrendered it to Philip I of France, who was an ally of Curthose. Naturally he lost Rufus's trust and had little influence on the remaining four years of the reign. Roger, along with his brothers, was a supporter of Curthose in his conflicts with Henry I of England during the early years of Henry's reign. After their failed rebellion of 1102, they lost their English holdings and were exiled. Roger then went to his wife's holdings in Poitou. Almodis's uncle Odo was ousted as count of La Marche in 1104, and subsequently the sons of Roger and Almodis are styled as count. Roger himself appears not have had much influence in affairs there, and in 1109 he was permitted to return to England (Robert Curthose having in the interim been defeated and imprisoned), where he stayed for a while but did not recover his earlier holdings. The children of Roger and Almodis include: Aldebert IV of La Marche Boso IV of La Marche Odo II of La Marche Pontia of La Marche, who married Wulgrin II of Angoulême Avice de Lancaster

Walter G. Ashworth -------------------- Pictured - Arundel Castle

Lord of Lancaster --------------------

ROGER de Montgommery

From Medlands:

[] http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3P-S.htm#WilliamPeverildiedafter1155

(-[before 1060/62]).  "Rogerii, Mabiliæ…Rogeri pueri filii Rogerii, Roberti fratris eius…" witnessed an undated charter for Saint Martin de Sées[447]. 
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Roger 'le Poitevin' Montgommerie, Comte de la Marche's Timeline

1058
1058
Marche, Poitou, France
1082
1082
Age 24
Poitou, , , France
1095
1095
Age 37
1095
Age 37
Nottingham,Nottingham,England
1109
1109
Age 51
France
1123
1123
Age 65
Charroux, France
1123
Age 65
Fatouville-Grestain, Eure, Normandie, France
1970
January 2, 1970
Age 65
January 2, 1970
Age 65
January 27, 1970
Age 65