Most Complete Jewish Tree?

Started by Randy Schoenberg on Saturday, December 29, 2012


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Showing 31-60 of 133 posts
2/20/2013 at 10:47 AM

why does mine go back through something different,
without fictional characters ?
King David / דוד המלך . is your 88th great grandfather.

View the full relationship path:

2/20/2013 at 10:49 AM

from King david - where does it go back to ?

2/20/2013 at 12:14 PM

wow, i just did it, all the way back to adam,
through the father of King Arthur,
and, some pretty holy lineage,
down through abraham, enoch & seth the son of adam & eve -that is preety amazing, the lineage from the mother of king arthur goes up to Boudicca & Prasta - as, 45th great grandparents - Adam of Eden

2/20/2013 at 1:27 PM

every profile should be locked - otherwise, a lot of hard work could disappear in an instant - sure glad, there isn't a war inside ;)

2/20/2013 at 2:05 PM

Private User , Peter Rohel (c) , Randy Schoenberg , Mike Stangel It is somehow between my grandparents and great grand grandparents that my two lines to King David seem to be corrupted---I cannot see how, but I am not at all technically savvy. With my great grandfather everything seems as before. ie.

For original settings of grandparents see 2/5 posting
1. King David

My GG Grandfather

2. My great great grandfather: R' Shmuel Komader-Doroger Rabbi
[King David / דוד המלך . is R' Shmuel Frankel, The Kamader - Doroger Rav's 88th great grandfather. (same as previously)]


I found a strange "no name" profile attached as a brother to R' Shmuel Frankel
3. R' Zev Wolf Tannenbaum (Verpeleter Rav)

And therefore the R' Shmuel Frankel's daughter's line is corrupted

My Great Grandmother:
4. Leah (Leni) Czitron (Frankel)
[King David / דוד המלך . is Leah Frankel Citron's 14th cousin 56 times removed. (corrupted line)]

Plus since it is so short it has also overridden my maternal grandmother, Rachel Citron's (Gins) alternative ancestral path as noted on 2/5 post too.

How do I go about repairing the corrupted connection properly? I am not even sure if this is the whole problem.

2/20/2013 at 2:26 PM


The (No Name) profile needs to be returned to its previous version.

Private User
2/20/2013 at 2:34 PM

Out of our scope, - it is a private profile with 30 Geni users in the family range.

2/20/2013 at 2:47 PM

Kevin Lawrence Hanit , Private User , Randy Schoenberg Thanks for the advice. I checked there are four managers. Do you know what is going on Randy---you are listed as one of the managers? R' Zev Wolf Tannenbaum (Verpeleter Rav)

2/20/2013 at 3:15 PM


I used "contact manager," added you and Kevin Hanit to the Geni mail string. That's a better way to get the manager's assistance I think.

2/20/2013 at 3:30 PM


You have access to fix it.

Private User
2/20/2013 at 3:43 PM
Private User
2/20/2013 at 3:44 PM

I meant "reverted" - and could do so through family group with a manager

Private User
2/20/2013 at 3:50 PM

Samuel Austin - Le Maux, and others like you,

I am making changes and posting the references. if you have a problem with my work your are fully capable of sending me a personal message.

However, since you bring your scree to a public forum, well, let's dut it up a bit, Junior!

What's your beef? Bring your sources, Junior, because coming into public forums to slander researchers is bad form and imminently poor taste.

Got a specific beef or are you simply fishing for other people who just "don;t like the feel of my work"?

Step up and be an adult, Mr Le MAux, and clearly state your issues in a coherent argument with factual basis.


2/20/2013 at 3:58 PM

to think positive about all these ... why there is virus in computer ... answer- in order to resolve the corruption of files and then revolve to a better program! So what is going on in will test the existing system and then the solutions will revolve the to a better program more protected than the previous! This is part of what we call transformation...

2/20/2013 at 3:59 PM

Re: R' Zev Wolf Tannenbaum (Verpeleter Rav)

I suggest a curator make it a Master profile for the future. I do not speak / read / write Hebrew or I would myself.

2/20/2013 at 4:02 PM

Also the "no name" sibling of the Rav needs to be set to deceased / public through a member with family group access - the manager seems to no longer be active on Geni.

2/20/2013 at 4:06 PM


The real culprit here is almost invisible. We have one or two users who were distressed about a problem that caused them to lose their Davidic lines. The problem was temporary, caused by a mistake in one profile.

However, one user in particular is adding two, three, sometimes even four duplicates of every generation in his line, trying to "go around" the system. The result is that everyone's lines are being re-routed further afield.

We're getting the duplicates merged in, but it's going to take awhile for Geni to recover.

Private User
2/20/2013 at 4:28 PM

Justin is correct - there are a number of "users" who "game" the system in an attempt to erode the efficacy of the branches. I've discussed the issue of people trying to take over profiles through merges with other curators.

I am the person who was working on the Zerubavel line - and I will revisit that in the near future once I get opinions back from Bar-Ilan University where I have researchers examining the original Aramaic meaning of "Shealtiel" as compared to "Assir-Shealtiel".

One of the curators just referred to me as a "clever genealogist" - no I seek historical truth and I am a ball-achingly arduous researcher. To be blunt, sometimes I make a mistake here and there...and if you communicate with me in private you will find I am both approachable and flexible. But if you come into a public forum without any facts to back up accusations or to stir up evil speech, then you'll get double-barrels of push-back.

I see a number of people feign indignity - as though a daily check of their Davidic connection is second only to their morning cup of coffee. For those of you who experienced anxiety attacks over this issue - I apologize. However, I do expect you to behave like adults rather than pandering to your impulse to lash out in public forums.

A contemporary western-trained mind would dismiss the conflation of Shealtiel with Assir-Shealtiel as a simple spelling mistake. However, there are nuances to understanding the old aramaic and Hebrew texts which sometimes includes analysis of Midrash in order to explore the full breadth of the this case it just happens to coincide with the historical epic of "Megillat Esther". Who was Zerubavel? Who was Assir-Shealtiel in relation to Shealtiel-father of Pedayah. Are they the same person? if so, then why is Shealtiel conflated with an Assyrian identity in certain cases? Was he a convert? Like Ruth (grandmother of King David)? Is Assir-Shealtiel a convert called "Shealtiel"? an adopted son? What is the impact upon those who claim Davidic descent if a meritorious child continued in the lineage of David haMelech? Would you besmirch an orphan? Would this affect how you think of yourselves?

Pilpul will not provide us answers to these issues - we must therefore turn to the experts in biblical exegesis in Bar-Ilan to get a highly respected opinion.

To those of you head-strong in claiming a Davidic lineage you could probably give a damn as you've already gotten what you want. To those of us who seek the truth in these matters, it is vital to exhaust all possible avenues of textual exegesis - even if it means certain lineages no longer connect to David haMelech.

So, as some of you begrudge this "clever genealogist" I will leave you with this:

Will you one day require my assistance to sort out a problem or find a source? If so, then I think we can agree that civility and kid-gloves are warranted in a venue where we don't know each other beyond this sterile environment of a keyboard and message forum.

2/20/2013 at 10:49 PM

Private User Looks like a problem at Yehuda "Zakai" ben David, 29th Exilarch 'Judah II'
His children are born when he is 90-145 years old.

2/20/2013 at 11:05 PM

Found a problem

Malik bin Zayd of al-Hirah
born -260 was son of
Zayd ibn Kahlan
born -660

I severed them.

2/20/2013 at 11:08 PM

David is now my 92nd great-grandfather. Somehow 5 generations got lopped off. It was 97th. But better than before.

Private User
2/20/2013 at 11:38 PM

There are some short cut profiles that seem to be messing up some paths

Yitskhak Eizik Meizels is I think from 1400s

Has father Traditional Descent Through 10 Generations MEIZELS

Has two fathers Ukba and Unknown Profile

The Ukba line ends in a dead end 5 gens further up.

The other father has father ?

and that takes us to Nathan ben Nachum, 7th Exilarch 'Mar Ukba I' (156-240)

So we went from MIddle Ages to exilarchs in 4 generations.

Can this be cut? I would rather not do it myself where there are better experts here.

2/21/2013 at 12:00 AM

Thanks David. I severed and wrote to the manager.

Private User
2/21/2013 at 12:18 AM

Thanks Randy

Private User
2/21/2013 at 5:34 PM

Hello Randy and others.

Here is a summary of work surrounding Yehuda Zakai ben David as well as a little background on its connection to the Bustenai lineages AND a short discussion of how I arrived at the ibn Yahya/Charlap identities.

2/22/2013 at 12:12 AM

Thanks Jaim. I can follow it (up to a point, I haven't studied talmud) and agree with your overall approach. The tree is always a work in progress, waiting for new sources and analysis. No problem with that. As I pointed out above, when talking about Jews living 1,000 years ago, chances are that we all connect to them somehow, and for 2-3,000 years ago it is an absolute certainty. So there's no reason to get too excited about one path over another. The only problem is when someone short-circuits the tree and makes it ridiculous, as was the case with Malik ibn Zayd above.

2/22/2013 at 1:51 PM

I was very surprised to find out that King David was my 90th Great-Grandfather. There has never been any mention of a Jewish connection that I am aware of in my family.

3/13/2013 at 11:43 PM

Private User is there a short-circuit in the link back to Adam of Eden? I am at 92gg to King David but just 117gg to Adam of Eden. I know it's all academic, but I am curious how we can best use the relationship finder to locate problems. The Biblical Tree project says that Adam should be at about 150 generations.

Private User
3/14/2013 at 12:53 AM

I would suggest that in your link Randy the profile Ammonites . is masking 1000 years.

I cut that link, as in general I hate those type of links.

Showing 31-60 of 133 posts

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