Project broadness

There are, I believe, some very legitimate reasons for this Project.

First, HistoryLink (which draws from Geni's projects) would allow users with multiple ancestors who were British aristocrats to keep a tab on who, and how many they are.

Second, the British aristocracy is unique in that it follows primogeniture, and that it's tightly regulated. This means that the number of British aristocrats is not only finite, but it is far smaller than say, of Spanish aristocrats, where many "titles" are just assumed, or passed around like party favors.

Third, the relative broadness of this group is trivial compared to many already extant Geni Projects (cf. "Famous People", "Family Heads", "US Civil War Notables", etc.), that truly *are* problematically ambiguous.

Do you actually have any British aristocrats in your ancestry or are you just expressing a general opinion about the topic?

Private User It might be that Victar is responding to the title "British Aristocrats" rather than "British Nobility", as the former may mistakenly give the impression that the project has to do with social status and the moneyed upperclass rather than the strictly hereditary peerage you are focusing on. ie.

"Aristocrat" and aristocracy, in modern usage, refer colloquially and broadly to persons who inherit elevated social status, whether due to membership in the (formerly) official nobility or the monied upper class." See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility

By the way, great project! You might find some of these Geni Projects of help.

1. http://www.geni.com/projects/English-and-British-Monarchs/3232

2. http://www.geni.com/projects/The-Kings-of-Wessex/55

3. http://www.geni.com/projects/Heraldic-Visitations-of-England-and-Wa...

4. http://www.geni.com/projects/The-Court-of-Henry-VIII-King-of-Englan...

5. http://www.geni.com/projects/The-Progeny-of-King-Henry-l-of-England/29

6. http://www.geni.com/projects/Ancestors-of-Queen-Elizabeth-II/13383

Malka Mysels and Private User --

My understanding of the term "nobility" is that it refers broadly to a *class* of people, whereas "aristocracy" more often refers to those with heritable titles. The latter is what I mean this Project to include, rather than those with social status or money; I attempted to disambiguate that in the Project's description, but I agree that the name is less than ideal.

"Peerage" is more specific, but unfortunately excludes baronets, who make up a large percentage of Britons with heritable titles. I might be convinced of the sense of renaming the Project "British Peers and Baronets", tho'.

What do you think?

Private User Excellent alternative title---"British Peers and Baronets" would offer the gravitas this superb project deserves!

To my HUBLME opinion this project might give explanatoin to foreginers about the biritissch aristorcracy see also:
* http://www.geni.com/projects/The-Peerage-of-Ireland/9278
* http://www.geni.com/projects/Peerage-of-%E2%80%A7-England-%E2%80%A7...

1) To submit profiles to Jeff Gentes' HistoryLink program, they don't need to be contained in a single project; you could very well submit 10 or 20 projects.

2) The problem with using the term "aristocrat", is it applies to not just title bearing noble, but also to all their family, regardless of title, Winston Churchill being a good example. I'd be more on-board with "British peers and baronets".

3) There are active efforts to do away with such ambiguous projects.

We're all related. My wife though is descended from British nobility. As a Geni curator however, I take it upon myself to bring sense and order to projects, especially those with very encompassing scopes.

I like the name British Peers and Baronets.

Is there a standard source to vet against for project membership? Is there a time line?

For instance - perhaps exclude from "Burke's Extinct" - in fact, since we're talking Britain, the timeline for this project should only include those from Great Britain, and related projects from earlier periods?

So for example - Scottish peers from 1707 on ONLY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_representative_peers

(Perhaps other, related projects, for earlier Scots nobility)

Erica Howton -- There are many standard sources that could be drawn from, but the various Burke's and Debretts volumes would be a good starting place. There's sufficient documentation extant to be able to confirm just about any claim of a title held after 1066.

I don't think that having time parameters would be that useful to the Project. Pre-Norman British titles are quite rare; a few Saxon earls, some Norman dukes, etc. I don't think we need worry too much about now-exotic titles like "thane" or the like.

Private User -- I entirely agree that "aristocrats" is somewhat ambiguous and your example of Churchill is salient. (Of course, he turned down a dukedom, but that's another story.) Rather than making the Project's name too unwieldy, I tried to disambiguate its scope in the description, but I now see that "British Peers and Baronets" is more concise. It does suffer from giving apparent equal weight to both groups, but since baronets are heritable titles, and yet not peerages, I think it makes more sense to include, rather than exclude them in the Project.

As for the idea of creating "10 or 20 projects" to be drawn from in HistoryLink (by which I presume you mean separate Projects such as "British Dukes", "British Marquesses", "British Earls", etc.), I think that's problematic for a number of reasons, not least of which since many individuals have held multiple titles, and many others have been elevated from say, Baronet to Baron to Viscount, and so on. Of course, if I've misunderstood your point, please correct me.

Are any of you aware of these already existing projects:
http://www.geni.com/projects/Queen-and-Honours/10134
http://www.geni.com/projects/British-Commonwealth-Military-Honours-...
http://www.geni.com/projects/Knighthoods/10135
http://www.geni.com/projects/Knights-of-the-Garter/919
http://www.geni.com/projects/Order-of-Bath/10156
http://www.geni.com/projects/Order-of-Merit/10154
http://www.geni.com/projects/Order-of-the-British-Empire-O-B-E/10136
http://www.geni.com/projects/Order-of-the-Thistle/10153
http://www.geni.com/projects/Peerage-of-%E2%80%A7-England-%E2%80%A7...
http://www.geni.com/projects/Queen-Honours-those-who-said-No/10203
http://www.geni.com/projects/Royal-Family-Orders/10159
http://www.geni.com/projects/Royal-Victorian-Order/10158
http://www.geni.com/projects/The-Order-of-St-Michael-and-St-George/...
http://www.geni.com/projects/The-Order-of-the-Companions-of-Honour/...

Terry Jackson (Switzer) -- I'm aware of some of those projects, but there's only one that relates to this particular Project, and that's the ninth listed -- the "Peerage of England..." That Project is not active, it contains just one profile, and I've been informed that its creator does not wish to merge with other Projects.

Thanks Robert.

What About THE titel aristocats?

Hi Jeannette

The current name of the project - British Peers & Baronets - is much more specific & useful than "aristocrats." In English that's more an adjective. There's no real list I know of for a project.

Private User
, why do you say that http://www.geni.com/projects/Peerage-of-%E2%80%A7-England-%E2%80%A7... is not active. I am a collaborator on that project and would think that having the structure in place for adding profiles in their correct position would be more desirable than a random list of thousands of names.
As Victar pointed out this is a incredibly broad spectrum of people when you consider the just the numbers in the present day are quite large and this will be replcated through history.

Terry Jackson (Switzer) Thank you for bring up this important question, because there seems to be confusion about valuing the exclusive contribution of everybody's work.

Your point also touches on the diversity of projects, how they can be active yet not seem so, or even go "undiscoverable" in the search mode because of specialty formatting and/or thus be too unique to join.

The reason the project you refer to above might appear dormant is that there is only one profile actually added to the project.

http://www.geni.com/projects/Peerage-of-%E2%80%A7-England-%E2%80%A7...

Also, note the use of the "special formatting" in the Title which can be conceived as limiting to outsiders, but there maybe a myriad of excellent reasons for using such special identifiers to set part of a unique set of personal work. eg.(Maybe part of a school curriculum or work study series).

The distinctive signature of any project by nature ironically might render it unsuitable to some others. You are very artistic, so you would certainly understand how each person adds a bit of themselves into the project---it is not simply rote work but a unique experience and message to be celebrated as such. The "Related Projects" tab takes care of merging the topics, and sometimes in addition, a link to another related project can be added prominently in the new one---so there is nothing lost.

Regarding the broadness of the project, it is no more broad than any of our notable, or prominent celebrity projects---all we hope are ongoing and will continue to be added to. Any way we can bring attention to family trees and genealogy so that history comes alive and speaks in a personal voice is invaluable.

Thanks Malka, all good points.