Rice Pudding Part 2, Quest For Truth

Thanks Justin: I later saw that Deveraux was mis-identified....the name I was refering to was de Vere....and thought wrongly about the Deveraux...good catch as always....And let me state again....I am a beginner here, This month concludes my first year of on line depth research...I am not a geneaologist nor do I present myself as such....I am just one of several grandsons of John Rice of Dedham 1624 looking for complete understanding....My efforts to understand are broadcast live and in color right here for all to see....& I am amazed at depth of the relationships uncovered thus far....Including a range of Geni verified English and French KINGS....I will do the best that I can to be clear in my pursuit...Regards DCR1948

Isobel Wardlaw Isabel Mercer connect to my Margaret Mercer?

Again: Many THANKS, I was pretty sure they connected but did not know how....now we know...Perrott's sister Lettise ap Rice/Lort. DCR out.

FYI: ANNE MERCER leads to the Friend lineage and they connect to the story.. Anne Mercer DCR they were mentioned.

Anne Mercer

Married 3 different Men named Thomas Mercer? She must have liked the name Thomas and wanted to keep her married name? This seems a lil strange as well. All 3 Thomas Mercers have different birth years.

Anne Mercer

Birth:
1575
Hartfordshire, , , England

Rev. Thomas Robert Merser, Of Todlaw

Birth:
January 28, 1658
Lancashire, UK

Death:
1723 (65)
Cheshire, UK

Something not right here! Thomas Merser was born when this woman was almost 80 yrs old?

Ian - take a look at the "data conflicts" screen under the "actions" menu on the profile. That may offer insight.

Then what I do is look for outside sources to find out who they were "supposed" to be. I put those sources in the overviews as citations, add a referring outside link, and build a "child" list in the overview as well - because the relationships are what we're always looking for.

Resolving data conflicts to source and disconnecting bad relationships come after the research is done. Then we can make into Master Profiles so it doesn't happen again.

Dates may be imprecise; we have between dating now. But locations are really important because I don't believe in flying carpets. :):)

Ms. Erica: You may want to look at Elizabeth Friend, 5 marriage connection back we come upon Henry Rice son of Thomasine Frost Rice and Edmund RICE of Sudburry....These two families connect and I just wanted you to see just fyi....the proximity to Perrott ap Rice 1600 and the Friends are referenced, but not yet understood...Regards DCR 1948 Elizabeth Jane Friend.

Dale there is something wrong with that tree. It starts with Rev. John Mercer
(1785-1856)

Please totally ignore it until it can be picked apart. Thanks.

OK never mind the above message - Mr Google came thru for me right quick & the tree is OK now that I've added SOURCE information.

Please open the profile for Elizabeth Jane Friend now.

And look at the "you are connected to ..." message at the top of the profile.

For me I have

You are connected to Elizabeth Jane Friend (Mercer).
You
  → No path found to Elizabeth Jane Friend (Mercer). Look for more path search options coming soon. → Elizabeth Jane Friend (Mercer)

This tree begins, as mentioned, with a Rev. Mercer of Pennsylvania, parents unknown. My guess given the time frame (mid to later 1700s) is that like Ian Winton & me, this Mercer family is a bump off the Scotch Irish log - and not related to the East Anglian Puritans who peopled Massachusetts in the 1640s.

Until of course far more recent times.

And this is because? The Royal family is tryin to cover their tracks? "Until the internet has come along"? AND BUSTED! This is what I think.

Henry Mercer Henry Mercer shows the light Blue blood connection from Thomasine Frost Rice to the Churchill lines via Strutt....Thus the X chromosome transferred to each succeeding generation on MT.DNA . So I am assuming that my sister's MT DNA test results can be compared to Thomasine Frost Rice....Is that correct JUSTIN? Assuming that each male in Blue receives an X from his mother upline and passes on 1/2 to his succeeding daughter reduced by 50% each generation. Is that correct? DCR 1948

Dale this line of Mercer's is more promising to me as relating to your William Mercer of Lancashire, but I do not see a New England connection. I see more what I would expect - a Virginia connection

http://www.geni.com/path/Erica+Howton+c+is+related+to+Henry+Mercer?...

Dale, on the x chromosome you're close but not quite there.

Men get an x from their mother, but it's a combination of the two x's she got from her two parents.

Easier to see in a picture than in a long explanation. You can see a chart with percentages here:
http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2009/01/12/more-x-chromosome-c...

The bottom line is you get a composite x from all your ancestors -- except from any line that goes through a father-son.

But, mtDNA isn't the same as the x chromosome. You and your sister both have the same mtDNA. You got it from your mother's mother's mother's mother ... and so on back. It doesn't combine. It stays the same across the generations except for occasional mutations. To get Thomasine Frost Rice's mtDNA you would need to find someone descended from her in the direct mother-daughter line.

Okay!

Interesting opportunities W: I certtainly have a lot I could say.....LOL.!

My first go round looking for unbroken female line on Thomasine Frost Rice...I can trace

unbroken MTDNA from 1310 to 1813 That's Joan De Beauchamp to Mary DAWES & Sister Rose Dawes with one break at 1410. That should be a very strong READ. I will look for other daughter lines from Mary Rice Maynard. Is this the part wher Im having fun? LOL

Yes, I figured so...it's still 1410 to to 1892...but im not seeing females in the descendent line after that....so? The only thing that could be done I suppose is a statistical modal analysis for any data that may be out there...I'll see if anything is posted....DCR

Well, it looks like I am approaching the limits of my abilities to think about this without advanced education.....Thankyou W. DCR

Thankks Justin Im on that: I will re-ask the Pollards who curate the file on Captain John Rice Hughes......They can solve this very quickly....as you know...Thomas Stuckley's mother was Jane Pollard....and not Mary Berkley as many sites suggest....DCR

Greetings Good Cousin EDW!!! The DNA cannot be faked, so that's why it's crucial for me to obtain....I have exact match here is America ca 1650 but hunting down that person would some time no doubt....and there is but one of me.....LOL (quite enough Im aware).

MyPlan : Contact a descendent of Sir John Perrot's male line Pollard/Stuckley/ Perrott/Edwards/ or SMITH/Cook and Cookson....any will give the Henry VIII DNA lineage Im seeking....Not Carey as he is R1b1.....

2. The Mt. DNA test underway as we chat will be usefull to see what my sister and I share of our mother's line which is Cookson/CHALFANT....a very ancient lineage seated at Buccleaux.

3. Once assembled, I will forward the test results along with a copy of the story: to a DNA specialist willing to work for pennies on the Dollar to see if the OUTRAGEOUS assertion has any basis in fact we can all agree upon....
4. I will take a cruise to Puerto Viarta in Mexico and celebrate with tonics on the beach.....WHATEVER the outcome.....!!! You are all welcome to join us PV June 15-20 2013.....Kindest Regards DCR

Dale

I've been looking more at the Mercer question. There's a description of the coats of arms used at the memorials in the church at Tenby, Pembrokeshire. That should be helpful for identifying which families were in Perrott ap Rhys' lineage.

The page is http://books.google.com/books?vq=Mercer&dq=Laws+and+Edwards,+Ch...

And it reads:

The Scotsborough monument is very rich in heraldry. On the upper part is a shield, on which are marshalled the coats of Ap Rees and Mercer, baron and femme, the former with its eight quarterings; below, on the dexter side, Ap Rees, and on the sinister Mercer. The quarterings of Ap Rees are as follow:
1. Ap Rees.—Argent, a chevron between three ravens sable, within
a border componey azure and or. He inherited the ravens from his grandfather, David, who was a natural son of Sir Rhys ap Thomas.
2. Mart1n or Cemmaes.—Or, two bars gules. Thomas's great
grandmother was Alsonde, daughter of Arnold Martin, of Richardston.
3. Marles Of Marloes.—Or, six martlets gules, three in chief,
three in base. Arnold Martin's mother was daughter of Richard Marles.
4. Batman Ok Honkyborough.—Sable, a chevron between three
escallop shells or. Thomas's grandmother was Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas Batman.
5. Perrot Of Scotsborough.—Gules, three pears pendant or,
on a chief argent, a lion issuant sable. Catherine Perrot, Thomas's mother, was representative of the Scotsborough branch of the Perrot family.
6. Verney (?).—Quarterly, azure and gules on a cross or five ermine
spots (?). Catherine Perrot was fifth in descent from Isabel Verney. See monument No. III.
7. Leve1.ance (?).—Gules, on a chief indented sable three martlets
or. Isabel Verney's mother was Elinor, daughter of William Levelance.
8. Rocn.—Gules, three fishes naiant in pale or. Elinor's mother
was Lucy, daughter of Thomas le Roch.

Thanks All: Im having a minor inconvenience and have to make a run to the V.A. it's just the way things are...Kindes Regards...and Spectacular Find E.H.!! DCR

According to Pembrokshire history on line: William Mercer 1534 M Alice Hensdale 1538-1598 and their only child was JOhn MERCER 1568... ..see pages 20-24 of webjournals.llgd-id1041698.

If this is the same William Mercer? This could still be possible Dale. He could have married twice.

Says that Margaret Mercer was born 1580. William would have been 46 years old, If this is the same man. Could quite possibly be his children from a second marriage?

Ian - the "identifier" would be "of" Lancashire, and "resided in" Oxfordshire. You might have luck with a FamilySearch.org search actually to try & narrow down the possible William Mercers.

FYI: Thomasine Rice

So, my reading of the names above in Erica Howton's wonderful doccument indicates that the Ap Rice/Perrott line is fully doccumented on the coat of Arms...I also read the name of Ayalla or Ortega just before Mercer 22 on the pembrokshir journas which I shared some time ago....the Warren name appears as a daughter? in the line of descent as well...so apRice married a Warren? I was not clear why that name was included Ms. E......?

After reading about STR's and I am absolutely ignorant about the methodology, I reasoned that a common grandmother to Thomasine Rice Frost should appear with a possible connection to the Perrot's of Scottsborogh at Thomas and Mary Pughe, paramour of Henry VIII. That appeas to be the case at Beauchamp, Margaret 1405 and Joan Beauchamp (BIttlesgate) 1390....I am not sure of that it's just coincidental with Elenor Beauchamp 1408. DCR