The Role of inductive Logic in finding missing family members on Geni

Started by Dale C. Rice on Sunday, March 30, 2014


Profiles Mentioned:

Showing 1-30 of 148 posts
3/30/2014 at 11:04 PM

The below discussion will be about how to assemble the links here on Geni which can point you to family affiliations and names that are part of a family group outside one's information base. The idea of Inductive logic is that the information developed may be wrong and that must be acknowledged in the beginning...but the family's other ancestors which are not know could have the children or siblings or ancestors which are not part of your family information.... Therefore, looking at those connecting famlies and all their spouces and Children and siblings can yield a track to follow in finding a missing person.

In my case, I used this form of reasoning to reconstruct a family picture garbled by tiime, 38 years in fact, and was able to recall the names of various persons mentioned in that testimony of my father as means of tracking down relationships. We found by this method, the Birth Baptismal Certificate for JOHN RICE 1630 of North Walsham, England and the Birth Mother: Margaret RICE ca 1618. My descriptions of this event was a springboard for others to use their skills of evaluation to look where I could not possibly have imagined looking. They found my Ancestor by thinking first INDUCTIVELY....then once finding a single clue were able to Deductively find the Baptismal Certificate.

It is a great example of acknowledging that this could be wrong but lets look anyway...and then tracking down the missing persons and in this case a baptismal certificate. Once that was done, the pieces of a very old and complex story began to fall into place which led to the names of the PRIME Actors in my family Drama. So if you are at a Roadblock in your search. Bring it here, and we can try to find the answeres by conversation of historical facts as they relate to your search. Dale C. Rice 1948 of the Nebraska Rice lineage of John Rice 1630 married to Ann Hackley November 1649.

3/30/2014 at 11:58 PM John Parratt II "The Quaker: Father to John RICE of DEDHAM Ma. Born to the daughter of PERROTT ap RICE 1600 and Maragret Littleton of TENBY in the year 1630 and registered at North Walsham, England 1630.

These two links show up in my family ancestory at a secondary or indirect link because I have no doccument which proves the Paternity of John RICE of DEDHAM is Parratt II of Havorford West. Near his ancestoral home at Carew Castle and but 5 miles from the ap RICE home near Tenby. Thus, in the year 1629 while Parratt II was plundering a French Merchant ship at Havorford West some opportunity arose which put Parratt together with Perrott ap RICE 1600 and his daughter Margaret.

This is pieced together from Historical doccuments which place the Father in 1629 within the family or Perrott by Aural History 1978/ The 12 year old girl was forced to give the child up and good Puritan stock were near by. The ALLIN family but Scarborough and Davis family's lived in North Walsham where the Baptism occured. North WAlsham is on the coast of the English Channel about two days sailing East of TENBY. fyi

3/31/2014 at 12:09 AM This is official link which explains the joint research project conducted here on GENI for 9 months and counting. It gives the details without endorcing my more inductive approach.

It is to your advantage to link up with the masters of Geneaolgy here in residence to help those of us who get side tracked or stuck in our own investigations. They will help you if you ask for it. Good Luck in your searches...Mine continues for the person "Charity RICE born about 1630 and married to my 3 rd ggrandfather Edward Rice of Ma. DCR

3/31/2014 at 8:50 AM

While much of the last days of the origional thread were spent in defending my approach to the investigative process of asking questions that others had the answers to, It yielded a bounty of information listed above in the lt. blue links. I hope you will check them out. My finding of the parallel lines of family of cousins and siblings to Perrott ap Rice and John Perratt II are the result of tracing down each family member's children and their children. I was able to track down the Hatch line of Tamzine Frost Rice to a Mormon family in Utah and then to members of my own home church in my hometown. That link goes back 700 years in direct daughter to daughter mt. DNA links. You can do the same thing if you like by simply clicking on the mother of Tamzine Frost Rice and then her mother and her mother. Same for The Dr. Richard Edwardes alleged son Henry Tudor....I know where the direct lingage to the Edwardes line lives in Indiana. At some future point he could be asked to submit for a Y DNA test to see, as I suspect him to be I-1 as were his ancestors... Google the Names of Thomas Stuckley, Richard Edwardes, and Robert Tudor Fychan or William Tudor DNA projects...You will find they each have nearly identical Y profiles and snp M253. That is a very strong clue to be followed up by better researchers than I. But only if they take their own bliners off. DCR 1948

3/31/2014 at 11:52 AM

The above link was early on in the disussion of Haplogroups and has a listing of Early English families. Half of which are named in various ancstoral lines of the Rice's. We ofcourse are I-1 not of the established Plantagenet lines. However, if Edward IV was a bowman's son and not Edward III blood son and we have a descendent Owen Tudor that would account for the I-1 blood found among the Bastard sons of Henry VII in DeVellville lines which lead to Smith and Porter famlies in America as well as Edwardes, Stuckley, Perrott and Robert Tudor Vychan lines. This is still open for discussion and investigation. DCR 1948

3/31/2014 at 3:56 PM

Thanks Mart: You know i am a grateful cousin now, so onward with the search. I have just found John Mayo of the testimony of 1978 which adds to it's authority, and therefore it likelihood of being true. John Mayo, I DCR

4/1/2014 at 9:38 AM

John Perrott II The Quaker was in Rome and imprisoned where he had some liberties. Including writing materials and visitors. He was transferred to a Madhouse from which he was eventuall sprung. See the above site for an understanding of the man's passion.

Lastly, While his Father: alleged to be Sir John Perrott 1528 was married to Margaret Cheney, with whom he had two sons, Sir John was assigned to IRELAND for a time as Lt. Govenor. He took Syble Johns as a mistress and to her was born John Perratt II 1572 in Waterford Ir. It is this person that my Father named as the Father of John RICE 1630 and Perrott ap RICE 1600 DCR 1948

4/1/2014 at 9:52 AM The role of Dissent in the political life of England is part of the story of JOHN PERRATT II 1572 who is believed to be my ancestor. His writing from Rome are listed in the post above. Here we meet up with George Fox and his Dissent which leads to the Women's Sufferage movement. DCR1948

4/1/2014 at 10:35 AM

In light of the VISITATION privlidges Parratt II 1572 enjoyed while en custody in ROME I have a 24/25 DNA match with one step variance with the SCARFONE family of SantAgata Calabria, Italy/ The most distant known ancestor of my match, Giovanni Battista Scarfone 1943 is his 4th ggrandfather: SANTO SCARFONE 1790.

Our common ancestor was calculated using the FT DNA estimate of 93.7% within 20 generations. Since both Mr. Scarfone and I were born within 5 years of each other we arrive at the year 1534 using and average of 20 years per generation. Deducting 5 years from the estimate for my 1948 birth to his 1943 birth and we are at The year 1528-29 Which is the date of BIRTH of Sir JOHN PERROTT 1528 born to One Mary Berkley PUGHE.

During his imprisonment, John Perratt II 1572 the son of Sir John Perrott 1528-29 was allowed female visitors. This would be the years 1665-1670. The Scarfone family lists these female lines in their histories: Strati, Aracdi, Barletta, Bartolo, Gallo, Cozzupoli, Sicari, Zoccoli, and :

Katherine Ferres (Roddy) 1875 and Anna Kathryn Lake 1880. Lake is a known ancestoral line to the Rices of Dedham. Thus it seems a caged Tiger can still manage to find a way to be useful in the world of genetic geneaology. Scarfone was named in the 1978 testimony along with Lake. I used mnemonics Scarface and Veronica Lake to make a mental note in 1978. DCR 1948

4/1/2014 at 1:20 PM

The above posting should read 24 years per generation x 20 = 480 years from 2014 - 5years difference in age = 1528-29. The point being we would then have a numeric close value to one Sir John Perrott 1528-29 who's son we would share as an ancestor even though we are on different continent. Strange but seemingly TRUE. DCR

4/1/2014 at 5:57 PM

This link goes to my Aunt Phillis Saunders married to Gordon Mayo Saunders. it also links back to Wm. Saunders Ca 1521 son of Tudor King VIII? and Alix or Eden Saunders from field of Cloth of gold 1520, Late May. This would have to be considered speculation at this point unless my cousin, known to be in Los Angeles takes a DNA test. We could then triangulate his DNA to mine from John Rice 1624 son of Parratt II 1572. We do have that capability. So onto the next round of testing and PROOF. DCR 1948

4/1/2014 at 5:59 PM

Gordon Mayo Saunders Elizabeth Saunders Alix John Saunders This is the completed linkage from John RICE 1624 to the Laundress story of Field of Cloth of Gold 1520. For those of you who don't believe it, that's just happend anyway. DCR 1948

4/1/2014 at 6:02 PM My proof of Saunders affiliation within the last 200 years. DCR 1948

4/1/2014 at 6:21 PM

In case it's still a mystery to anyone here at GENI why I would not yield on the question of Paternity, this would be reason enough to understand that my father's testimony in 1978 was true and accurate. Long line of Kings, indeed. Back to the time before Wm. The Conquorer. You were wrong, the testimony was right, and my telling of the story was faulty. Too bad for history and Geneaology though correct? Because we can't move without a piece of paper for proof. DCR 1948

4/1/2014 at 11:21 PM
4/1/2014 at 11:26 PM

The roots Web Page above that i cited has reference to Eldest Daughter of cousin Dobson or Dingly. This reference is I belive to Ethelralda Mault the Taylors adopted daughter in London, and gifted by Henry Tudor with lands and properties by virtue of helping the KING with his Laundress: Joan Dningly - Dobson baby by the king, Ethelralda. She married into landed gentry with John Harrington and their daughter Hester Harrington was declaired dead to manage all her properties inherrited from her mother's passage age 10 or 12. She is belived to have survived and married the Herrington son by Isabel, John Harrington Jr. The line likely survived and a record marriage of Esther Harrington into the Rice line is recorded about 1660. DCR

4/2/2014 at 12:03 AM
John Ellis b. 1607 +Elizabeth Murrell

Ellis family matches on my test include 12/12 and listed among other family names higher matches. These are Associated names of Ellis with my profile. Adkinson, Bacon, Bean, Bayley, Blankenship, Tudor, Phillips, Patterson, Perkins, Perrott Potter Polk Ramsay, Roch, Reynolds, Reed, Rice, Sherman, Shipley

Group III Ellis matches

David ap Merdidd, Ellis ap John 1535 1560 1595
Howell ap Tudor
Tudor ap Gronwy

4/2/2014 at 12:07 AM

Geni Amministrators: my use of GENI has been Hacked and am interruped every 30 seconds or so by an unsolicited web service. This only occurs here when I am working so it's specific problem here on GENI. Please see if you have a VIRUS targeted to my name here on GENI. Thankyou DCR

4/2/2014 at 12:09 AM This is the site which attempts to block my use of the services here. Kindly eradicate and ban anyone associated with this targeted Virus. DCR 1948

4/2/2014 at 1:31 AM

Joseph Smith Jr. The Prophet is my 6th great Uncle's great niece's husband. His first Plural Wife is a Mary Rice of the Edmund Line I believe. DCR

This is just for know who you are. LOL DCR

4/2/2014 at 7:48 PM

Justin: Fyi I have located 3 matches for the Edwardes line and one match for a person of the testimony also listed on the Edwardes line Named John Brittain 1768 of Virginia, he's 33/37 markers. two steps and less. These matches are 1step at 12 markers,4/steps at 25 markers. Meaning we now have agreement to the Inductive logic of Tudor to Perrott to Brittain, to Edwardes lines all showing i-1 Haplogroup and M253 snp: This again is not proof...but it certainly points one in the direction of further deeper inquiry. DCR 1948

4/2/2014 at 7:50 PM

Underd Edwardes DNA project: #85744, N50040, 125423, 280845 are the kit numbers. DCR

4/2/2014 at 11:54 PM

This explains why my father looks like a Stewart of Scotland, and a Ringer for James II of England. Pretty Clear that Stewart informs Lindsay which informs Polly Seager, mother of Andrew Rice and grandmother of my father, Samuel Gordon. DCR 1948

4/3/2014 at 12:09 AM This is where the search began. Mr Rice is believed to be one of the sons of Sir Rhys ap Thomas 1449. Most likely Jevan ap Rice or William ap Rice by 2nd wife last name Mathews. There is a William Rice born to David Rice and Beatrice Rice and a Daughter Mary born ca 1530. These two Williams may not be the same persons. But one of them was born 9 months after the field of Cloth of Gold according to the testimony of my father in 1978. DCR

4/3/2014 at 12:34 AM

Since I was roundly castigated for not showing proof of Samuel Rice and Sarah White Rice-Hosmer's relationship Here's the Geni Profile. Also, not listed but nevertheless occured is Margaret Churchill marriage to same Samuel. The rest up to you to figure out. Now we have a conundrum, Sarah White Rice married to both Samuel Rice and has a son by Samuel named Joseph Rice. White of Taunton seems to be in line here. DCR 1948

4/3/2014 at 9:12 AM Ann Churchill married Samuel Rice. b 1647 not Margaret. She would be Wife # 3 I think. DCR

Showing 1-30 of 148 posts

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