Hugues III, count in the Nordgau - locked name field

Started by Alex Moes on Tuesday, June 17, 2014
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6/17/2014 at 11:55 PM

Suggest changing display name from "Hugues III, count in the Nordgau" to "Hugo V, count in Nordgau".

Suggest changing profile name to [Hugo] [im Nordgau] [V]

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6/18/2014 at 4:18 AM

@Hugues 111, count in the Nordgau is my 31 grt grandfather and if you want to change his name that is fine by me this is my link Judy Rice

6/18/2014 at 7:33 AM


6/18/2014 at 9:18 AM

I didn't change the underlying name, although it could no doubt be improved.

The Geni naming standards say we should use the modern form of the name in the area where the person lived. So, a man who lived in Alsace would have his name in French.

Looking to the primary sources for his name doesn't help us here. We know his name only from Latin charters, which means we see him as Hugo. Probably none of us want to see all the medieval profiles changed to the Latin forms of their names.

Regnal numbers belong in the Display Name, not in the underlying name fields. At least that's my opinion. The numbers were added much later, and if he didn't call himself Hugo V or Hughes V I don't think it's a good idea to treat the number as part of his real name.

Along the same lines, one numbering system calls him V and another calls him III. It's fine to make an arbitrary choice of systems for the display name but I think it's a questionable choice for the real name fields -- particularly appending it as a suffix, which is a very modern thing to do with contemporary names and doesn't match medieval practice.

6/18/2014 at 3:48 PM

Okay, good to know about the suffix.

Wouldn't they have more likely been speaking "German" at the dinner table?

Actually, did "German" exist 1000 years ago?

6/18/2014 at 9:15 PM

Alsace is a good example of why we have the rule about using the modern language in the region.

At the Treaty of Verdun (843) Charlemagne's grandsons divided the empire into three parts. The treaty was written in two languages because the East Franks were still speaking Germanic dialects but the West Franks had already begun to amalgamate their language with Gallo-Latin.

In the various divisions and re-divisions Alsace belonged to the middle kingdom ("Lotharingia"), in between the East Franks and West Franks, until it was finally attached to Swabia (the former Alemannia).

Then, of course, in more modern times it went back and forth between Germany and France. There doesn't seem to be a honest way to say the area clearly belongs to one more than the other.

6/19/2014 at 2:00 AM

So the Alsace family display names should be in French?

6/19/2014 at 7:51 AM

The underlying name fields should be in French, according to the Geni standard. There is no agreement about the display name. Some people put them in English, to make Geni more internationally accessible. Some people put them in French.

6/19/2014 at 3:48 PM

Considering how well the Geni standards are enforced...

I think ill build the profiles with the name used by Medlands then translate/guesstimate display name into english. My french is non-existent.

6/19/2014 at 5:54 PM

Fair enough.

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