Direct Descendant

You Are?
Hmmm. That whole line is suspect. It shows Charlemagne
To be my 30th ggf. So since about 800 A D
there were 30 generations. Roughly 40 years a generation.
Someone needs to look into this. Not me.

I have Charlemagne as my 27th ggf. There is a tree with Alice Baguley b. 1478 showing her father to be Ralph de Verdun (Bloxhom) d. 1189. Since this is the shortest path, that's what comes up.

I don't, bad meaningly, wish to pop anyone's bubble, just to put it into perspective...

Most anyone who is of any sort of European Descent is related to him. In"other" earlier Charlemagne "discussion threads" threads one can locate numerous links, with articles explaining, this. Or simply google "most Europeans descend from Charlemagne"

From another Charlemagne thread: from curator Mimi

"
mi² Anderson, Ⓒ C
7/23/2014 at 4:31 AM
Report
Andre Ronald van Amstel that idea has already been tried on other threads. I usually ignore the threads on Charlemagne, because other people's relationship to him is of no use to me, and everybody and their mother is related to Charlemagne.

These 2 threads are about him being the ancestor of Geni users.
http://www.geni.com/discussions/125857
http://www.geni.com/discussions/131242

These are all the threads that talk about him, feel free to pick one:
http://www.geni.com/discussions/search?q=charlemagne

"

No bubble popped here......I already am well aware of genetics, DNA, and migration. Its just a neat fact when you can clearly trace your tree to either ancient famous ancestors or those that are very intriguing. If I wanted I could have posted about all my other, closer royal blood family and famous Vikings. It was just a statement, but I clearly see that in every single family tree or DNA site there are those of you that like to stir the pot and take every possible opportunity to be snide or hateful. Quit taking things so seriously and have some fun with the information you can document well in your family trees!

Fred Mulholland

You are right, thank you. Would you be kind enough to start a discussion from the profile you identified so we can get that connection corrected

Hi Theresa, your message was:"Most anyone who is of any sort of European Descent is related to him." I did really do a lot of research in the Dutch archives down here, even unther nobility and what you say isn't true at all. Many of my ancestors Noble lines (German, Polish and Dutch, do not lead to Charlemagne ! It is just "wishfull thinking" of some people that almost all Europeans descent from Charlemagne. Sorry, but this is a fact ! Only nobility goes back to Charlemagne and there is still a lot of nobility who does not !
Greetings from the Netherlands.
By the way, it is Charlemagne year in the city Nijmegen, in the Netherlands, where Charlemagne have been quite some time and where his great grandson did build a small Castle. The Castle and a lot of other things, reminding us of Charlemagne is still there for us to be seen and this year it is all open to public. So, wanna go and see ?!? :)

People, most Europeand just descent of hardworking farmers and their family can only be traced back untill 1600 max ! If .... they owned farms, buildings and such and they got married, got children and so on. If they were single and did not own a thing, that is it ... one cannot find anything about that person anymore. True, my grandmother has more than four lines that go to Charlemagne, but ... my grandfather has non at all ! And I did research for many friends and relatives as well and ... non of their lines lead back to Charlemagne, only one relative who has the same ancestors as me, ofcourse, his line does, but all the other people did not have one line leading to Charlemagne. So I really do not understand why people are ever and over saying that almost all Europeans descent from Charlemagne !?! Am I the only one who did do research for those few (about 37 people) people who by coincidence do not descend of Charlemagne ? ;) I find that very odd.

Recia, there is a difference between having a descent and being able to trace a descent. If you can only find back to 1600, you have 400 years of ancestry but you still have 800 years of ancestors you haven't found.

Recia, I'm just passing along, resources. Not creating them. ;-) although, Justin, has made a good Point, as well.
Best Regards, Renée

Yes ofcourse Justin, but there is no single evidence that those people who descent of fisherman and farmers are earlier than 1600 suddenly descending of nobility and/or of a great Emperor, which to me seems very, very unlikely. Nothing is impossible ofcourse, but in the time Charlemagne lived, there were really more farmers and fishermen around to descend from and there was only one Charlemagne ! So it is very unrealistic to me, to think that most Europeans descend of this one Royal person, when there were so many, many others who were not Royal in those days. "Normal" people did not mix and marry Royalty or nobility in those days, they were already happy to survive and daring to come near to nobility (as servants). I am pretty sure my grandfather is not a descendant of Charlemagne (German, French and Dutch roots), but a descendant of hard working puter smiths, shoemakers and beer makers.
An uncle of mine claims my grandfather to descend of a Freiherr (Esquire) from Germany (near Stuttgart), who rented out his huge plot of land to farmers in Germany around 1700. Then the Esquire slept with one of the farmers daughters who got pregnant by this Esquire, she wanted money for her child, a lot of money. To save himself of a scandal he then killed the pregnant woman (???), but her father burnt down his huge Castle/farm on the corner of the stream the Schiere and the river Neckar. This stream is dry now. The farmers on the land then wanted to kill the Esquire and he fled to the Netherlands. Great story isn't it ? And this supposed to be the ancestor of my very own grandfather Scheermeijer / Schiermeijer / Schiere-mayer (a Meijer / Mayer was someone who rented out plots of land, a landowner). But I do not believe anything of this great story ! My uncle payed a real lot of money to a so called genealogical researcher who did tell him to find this after doing research. But ... my own research on my ancestor Scheermeijer showed me that in 1752 my ancestor Scheermeijer was a foundling in a very poor, famous part of Amsterdam, de Jordaan (where all Huguenots came to in 1685). I know the names of both of the parents of this foundling since he got baptized before the mother left him in the streets 3 whole months later, but his father Frederik/Friedrich Scheermeijer was not found in the Netherlands after that anymore and probably went back to Germany again. I think a lot of people get cheated on for a lot of money, just because they want to hear their ancestors come from nobility or of a world famous person.

I know someone else named Tromp by the surname, her parents payed someone a lot of money to do research as well ... her father wanted to find out if he descends of the great Dutch sea Admiral Maarten Harpertszoon Tromp. Well, ofcourse not ... the paternal line died off in the end of 1700 (I know, since I myself descend of Maarten Tromp trough his great granddaughter and through my grandmother and I researched this family Tromp). There are no males around in this world right now who do descend of this Admiral by the name Tromp. They also cannot descend of his son Admiral Cornelis Tromp, since this son died childless. But, do you know how many people now these days, named Tromp by the surname, claim to be a descendant of Admiral Maarten ? Just because people get payed for it and tell these people what they want to hear ?! Same goes with Charlemagne. If people keep saying that almost all Europeans (???) descend of Charlemagne, it is big business for so called researchers (conmen) to con people who want to trace their roots back to Charlemagne ! I do not want to be a part of that con-business. So that is why I am adding my comments to this conversation. I did really trace back a lot of noble lines (my very own ancestors), who all did not descend of Charlemagne. European nobility, German nobility, French nobility and so on ! So, how was this research done and by who ? Who is saying that almost all Europeans are descending of Charlemagne ? To my opinion that isn't possible at all. But, who am I ?! Anyway, best regards to you all from the Netherlands.

By the way ... why some people cannot be traced back before 1600 ? Just because they were not "important" enough to write anything down about them. they did not own land, houses or anything as such, so there were no buying records ... that is why their ancestors cannot be traced back before 1600 ! If they were of nobility or ... descending of an Emperor, these ancestors were sure written down and remewmbered. Almost all nobility can be traced back at least to around 1100, also if they do not descend of Charlemagne, but nobility who can be traced back to Charlemagne is sure being written down ! So, if one descends from this status of nobility ... it sure can be found. So if there is nothing to be found before 1600, ... no way there is nobility there. People were so proud on their ancestral line and in those days it was so very important for people to descend of nobility (then you were someone who meant something), they would Always write their ancestory down. Or ... even false their own ancestory and write that down (some Mayors of big cities in the Netherlands did false their ancestral-line in around 1700, just to get more status and respect), so that shows how important that was in those days, to descend of nobility. These nobility ancestral lines are also not to get lost easily, because history books write about these people, who owned houses, land, area's and such and the areas are often named after those people, so they will not be forgotten.

One last thing ... anyway, I am as proud of my ancestors who were hard working shoemakers (very good and important profession, I think ... I rather where shoes then go without them ;) ), puter smiths and farmers (my grandfather), as I am proud of my other ancestors who were Mayors, sea heroes and Admirals, nobility or Emperor. I love them all ! And I am very interested in all your ancestors too, if they were nobility or not ! I just love history, history of names of people and genealogy. So, love to be on Geni with you all ! :) So please do not think I am having bad or hard feelings to any of you, it is just an opinion of me, that is all.

Recia, Its me, Dries from Namibia/South-Africa, don't worry about family; you have got me as 6th cousin and I believe that is all anyone can handle.
One of my cousins, Coenraad Buys, about 200 years ago married Pres. Nelson Mandela`s Great, Great, Great grandmother, she was a widow of one of the Xhosa chiefs. (He married a lot of other Xhosa women as well) They move inland to the Soutpansberge and become a nation or I should say
a sub group of Afrikaans speaking people. Test yourself against President Mandela and see what comes out.

Recia, it's a question of overwhelming numbers.

If you go back to 1600, maybe 14 generations, you have about 16,000 ancestors. If you really know all of them and none of them have a line to Charlemagne, then look at the generations before that. Charlemagne is about 40 generations back. In his generation you have about a trillion ancestors. I think it's very unlikely that not a single one of those 16,000 had Charlemagne as one of the trillion.

You can read Chang's original paper here: http://www.stat.yale.edu/~jtc5/papers/CommonAncestors/AAP_99_Common...

And a simple introduction, along with supporting evidence from DNA tests, at National Geographic here: http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/07/charlemagnes-dna...

A quick check of any proposed line is as follows;
1) Divide the total years of the line by the number of
generations. This gives you the average
age of each generation (the average age of
each mother at the birth of her son or daughter.)
If you come up with over 35, be suspicious.


2) "unnamed" or "unknown" ________" ancestors
seem to live longer, have larger families and
be least problematic. Be suspicious
3) An unknown break with royalty (Europe)
Royal lines were the only lines maintained genealogy
before 1600. Your line should have a known
break with Royalty; a war, a religious purge, an illicit child.
Somewhere, to get into a royal line, or just a
long line, you must find that break.
4) Keep your own line clean. You do not want
to be dismissed for repeating someone else's
error.

Hi Dries, nothing did come out when I keyd in Nelson Mandela. I am not related to him. Was that what you wanted to say ? That many people are related to Nelson to, without knowing it ? I am very sorry, but I am a descendant of Carl Buijtendag, 'the beast of the bokkeveld', that is quite the opposite and I am not proud about that, for sure ! But it is a fact. My great grandmother is a Buijtendag and her father came to the Dutch-East-Indies (Surabaya) from Cape Town. So I have a lot of South-African cousins and that very same line also goes back to Charlemagne, although I am not sure if Carl was also a descendant of Charlemagne himself or I did go via one of the females in the Buijtendag family . Justin, I am not very good with numbers, I know how to count to 100, but that is about it ;) and mathematics is also not my thing, you are probably right. Anyway I still think that it is odd that almost all Europeans descend of Charlemagne. Anyway, I have noticed that half of the USA is descending of Jean II d'Avesnes, graaf van Holland (Jean II d'Avesnes, graaf van Holland is your 20th great grandfather). And I think that is a funny thing too. So now I have a lot of cousins in the USA and many of them are famous singers, actors, and so on. I do not know what happened there, but this Belgium/Dutch Count has many, many descendants in the USA ! And perhaps he did have genes for acting and singing too and passed it on to his USA descendants?! ;)

Recia,

Jean II d'Avesnes was the grandfather of Philippa of Hainault, who married Edward III of England. Edward left so many English descendants that he has been called "the Father of the Middle Class Englishman".

Ok, Justin, great information I did not know about. So actually Edward is to be blamed for my many, many cousins ? Anyway it is allways nice to meet new relatives from overseas. I was only very surprised to see that so many descendants among my many USA-relatives, all came out from the very same person. Greetings from Recia.

Charlemagne is my 34th ggf.

Interesting. Lineage here shows he is a 33rd grandfather as well but how can one be sure ? Would a DNA test show a possibility?

Charlemagne is also my 34th great grandfather through my Dutch side.

Charlemagne seems to be everyone's great X grandfather.

What is on Geni is wrong. The curators of some |MP profiles regarding his children are also wrong. More research needs to be done.

I have built my tree using for the most part Wikipedia... I am not sure were others curators got their information from, but I can tell you this much, what is on Geni compared to other sites and documentary programmes (this include YouTube and the history channel etc.). differ from the geni MP profiles made on this site.

I really think there should be more research done, plus members should be able to collaborate and agree upon the information provided before making any profiles MP status.

What some curators have declared as actual fact is however very incorrect. IF they bothered to research in a more productive matter they would learn of their mistakes.

Dorothy Smid

Some suggestions, if I may.

1. The term MP (Master Profile), as used on Geni, does "not" mean it is a perfect profile. It means it is the single best representation we have so far -- and as a collaborative site, it is "everyone's" responsibility to work on accuracy, biography, documentation, etc. A curator (or plural!) coordinates that effort, that's all.

2. So how does the geni collaborative world family tree improve? The single best way, as it leaves an audit trail, is by raising a discussion from the profile of concern.

I invite you to do so.

I would be glad to do so

Is this legitimate? An aunt did the research to Sir Anthony Rous but the rest leading to Charlemagne came from Geni.

https://www.geni.com/path/Richard-Hendrix-Jr+is+related+to+Charlema...

Richard Albert Hendrix, Jr It’s hard to step through a long line & validate each link.

Go to the weak points: the emigrant generation in the 1600s. Scrutinize carefully. Document or supplement existing documents. If anything looks iffy, start a discussion from that profile.

This is what I do.

just thought id give it a cursory send in case anyone could see anything obvious.

You have issues as the emigrants (wow I’m good).

Thomas Rous, of Dennington & Henham Hall

Died in “Somerset, Bristol, Mass?”

Really? This is a real place??

And his son Sir Thomas Rous, of Henham has a brother also named Thomas but 30 years younger died in Maryland?

Disconnect Thomas Roe from parents and get the profile sourced.

The reference in profile has no parents for him

http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/r/o/w/Harry-Rowe-GA/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0...