Margaret Moresby (Threlkeld) - Correct parents?

The birth date for Margaret of 1408 is incorrect, other more reliable sources show 1413 and her husband Christopher Moresbury as born in 1417.

I used the same source as for Sir Christopher Pickering, it is in the same tree.

I will have another look about the Margaret Threlkeld born about 1468, so far I have not researched her.

Unless the dates for Sir Henry Threlkeld & his wife are incorrect, even the date 1413 would make Henry 14 yrs. and her mother 11 yrs.

Can you say where you saw that Margaret Threlkeld wife of Christopher Moresby was the dau. of Sir Henry?

Transactions of the Cumberland & Westmorland Antiquarian & Archaeological Society (1866)
http://www.archive.org/stream/transactionvol9no2cumb#page/311/mode/1up
States (husband of Margaret Bromflete) "Sir Lancelot had three sons ; Lancelot his successor, James or John, of whom nothing seems to be known, and Christopher, of whom more hereafter. He had also four daughters ; Margaret, who married Sir Christopher Moresby ; Johan, who became the wife of Sir Brian Stapleton ; Anne, who married Sir Hugh Lowther ; and Elizabeth.
Then
http://www.archive.org/stream/transactionvol9no2cumb#page/312/mode/1up
"Winifred, who married William Pickering, the brother of James, (both younger sons of Anne, the heiress of Sir Christopher Moresby by their aunt Margaret Threlkeld, which Anne had married Sir James Pickering of Killington and Winderwath,)"

The foot note in Visitations of Yorkshire https://archive.org/stream/visitationsyork00britgoog#page/n262/mode... pedigree for the Pickerings

(+) "The desent of Sir Crystofer Morysby is at large in my boke of petegres w'towt strynges." On f. 63 of this Manuscript, as in Visitation 1584. p. 120, his wife is called Margaret, daughter of Sir Lancelot Threlkeld.

Re: The other Margaret Threlkeld (b. c 1468, d. 22 Apr 1493) wife of William/Thomas Belasyse would of been most likely the dau. of Lancelot Threlkeld III son of Sir Lancelet Threlkeld & Margaret Bromflete

I checked on www.ancestry.co.uk and ther are very many references to her, born in 1459, died 1502, always shown as a daughter of Lancelot and Margaret nee Bromflete so I have added her according to this information.

Dear Roderick,

Ancestry.co always gives many references because lots of people have copied the same mistakes, as well as the same correct information. Birth-dates in the fifteenth century or earlier are (almost always) only calculable when there is an inquisition post-mortem for a father which gives the age of his children; there are exceptions when the people were very grand, or where the christening party got so drunk that lots of people killed each other, but they are rare.

Just accept that even the "most reliable" sources have mistakes. I'm currently taking a holiday, or diversion, from the damned medieval Delavals of Seaton Delaval. It is beyond question that a Delaval was given this manor by William I between 1066 and 1086. A pedigree of the medieval Delavals was compiled, around 1460, allegedly by some Bishop of whose existence I am not entirely convinced. There was some work done on the tree in the late eighteenth century. There may have been some done since (since Seaton Delaval Hall is one of the great houses of England) but as far as I can see most genealogists have just thrown up their hands in horror, as well they might. Various members of the medieval Delavals can be matched with other pedigrees, apparently reliably, but when one looks at dates the relationships between the Delavals themselves just cannot match up.

Even on the cusp of the eighteenth/nineteenth centuries I find in ancestry com complete nonsenses within my own family, repeated endlessly by one copyist to another.

Mark

Dear Mark

I fully agree. I am a relatively new user of internet genealogy, I started my tree using snail mail and reading books in about 1975. Errors go "viral" on ancestry, MyHeritage and similar websites. I actually joined Geni because others had put some of my family's tree on, full of errors with people married to the wrong spouses, it took me some weeks to correct it all.

Many old trees were purposefully falsified. In the Baltic region, newly ennobled families actually stole the identities of supposed lost sons who emigrated from Germany and even used their cooats of arms.

We can only do out best. When all else fails, a DNA test might provide the solution, in some cases.

Regards

Rod

Dear Rod,

Yes. The optimistic theory of Geni is that eventually "good" genealogy (which often means choosing the most probable option rather than a certain one) will drive out the "bad". But one often reads criticisms of Geni by former users that they have corrected some nonsense only to see it creep back.

Some of the curators, Erica Howton for example, would say that we should always source, and hope that this will help solve the dilemmas. It will, I suppose, in the long run, but I am too lazy - or impatient - always to do so. And it does not always help. I've just come across a naughty adventurous old Sheriff of Cumberland and Member of Parliament in the fifteenth century who (allegedly) married a Joan Fitzhugh, a nun. And it was properly sourced (Burke's Commoners, 1835). It just happens to be wrong.

Mark

I have printed this conversation as I need to check in Ancestry.com it is a massive site, ten times the size of Geni, and the beauty of Ancestry it is worldwide and has access to millions of records from birth to death and probates as well as military records which Geni does not have.

Due to that I no longer use Geni. I will check these records and will revert soonest.

Sue Davies

Sir Henry 1st Lord Vercy DeThrelkeld Born 29/3/1399
Married Margaret Alice Thornburg. in 1418
Margaret was born in 1396, East Riding. and died 12/4/1493 Lonsborough.
They had two infants that there is no record on and it is presumed they died in infancy. Anne in 1436 and William in 1438.

They had one living son Sir Lancelot Threlkeld born 1435 who died in 1493. He married Margaret Bromflete born 1436. she died 14/4/1493 same day as her mother-in-law.
Sir Lancelot + Margaret had 8 infants who died in infancy. Ann 1451, Christopher 1455, Anne 1463, Lancelot 1463, John 1463, James 1467, Elizabeth 1469 and Henry 1484.
Their living ones were: Lancelot III born 1450 and died 1512 Margaret was (14) when she had him.
Margaret Threlkeld born 1459 and died 1502. She married Thomas Belasye/Bellasis and had a son Richard 1497-1540.
Jane Lawson 1461-1502
Christopher Threlkeld 1471-1539
Joan 1475-1542.
There is a huge history to all of these names it is very well documented.
Part of my family came down through Sir Henry, Lancelot 1435 to Margaret 1459 + Thomas and beyond.

could this be her?? I have been thinking she could be the mother of Richard Nevilles illegitimate daughter Margaret/Huddleston/Threlkeld. Female
Birth: 1410
Hayton, Cumbria, England
Death: August 05, 1458 (47-48)
Immediate Family:
Daughter of Sir Peter Tilliol, MP and Elizabeth Tilliol
Wife of Christopher Moresby, of Asby Winderwath and Sir Thomas Crackenthorpe, MP, of Scaleby
Mother of Christopher Moresby
Sister of Robert Tilliol and Isabel Tilliol, of Scaleby

Added by: Lori Lynn Wilke on March 5, 2009
Managed by: Erica Howton, Lori Lynn Wilke, David Howerton and Chandre Lee Rizik

She left a will or IPM I have a copy from A2A national archives her second husband was killed at Towton.