Place Names

Started by Francois Cornelius Swart, i3j5 on Sunday, January 11, 2015
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Good Historians are very particular about the accuracy of their findings. Accurate results provide legitimacy to one's findings. I believe that all Genealogists share the same sentiment.

Geni is using an automated place name input system (apparently related to Google) that does not add accurate data to our profiles. I.e if you input "Uitenhage, South Africa" it will input "Uitenhage, Port Elizabeth ......". Such a place does not exist. There is no Uitenhage in Port Elizabeth. A similar situation occurs when one inputs place names for other major cities. I.e. when you input "Port Elizabeth", it will default to "Port Elizabeth, Port Elizabeth .......", which is incorrect.

When the viewer looks at a profile that states that a person was born in Port Elizabeth, Port Elizabeth ......, it most certainly creates the perception that, whoever was responsible for the data input, could not care less about data accuracy. The general consensus is that we must do a manual correction, which I, and most others do.

The question is why one must make manual corrections with an automated system. Why can the system not allow us to make the correction once, and in future it will be available as the correct data. There is no reason why the data must be corrected EVERY TIME you encounter the problem. Valuable collective time will be saved which can be spent on research, and higher productivity.

Please provide input about how you feel, and suggestions that can be presented to Geni.

Geni is relying on the Google Maps API. They are not wrapping any extra logic to it and it's presented as Google Maps presents it. It does look like Google may be presenting incorrect information on both of your examples. As far as I can tell a proper return would be "Uitenhage, Nelson Mandela Bay, Eastern Cape, South Africa".

Here's the Help entry on it how Geni uses the Google Maps API:
http://help.geni.com/entries/22119118-How-are-location-fields-parsed-

I personally never rely on the auto-complete for any location field entries.

You are quite correct by saying that the correct entry should be "Uitenhage, Nelsa Mandela Bay, Eastern Cape, South Africa". If one cannot rely on the auto-complete functionality, why have it as an option at all?

Or the correct option may be to create a forum that inform the powers to be at Geni about the map errors, and they can, in return communicate the errors to Google. Will that be feasible?

There might actually be a method for communicating with Google directly but how high of a priority they place on correcting these things is anyone's guess, i doubt they would respond to Geni management any faster than to the general public.

Presumably no one was born in "Uitenhage, Nelson Mandela Bay, Eastern Cape, South Africa" prior to 2001, which highlights a huge extra dimension to the issue that Google are very unlikely to be interested in but that Geni users are constantly dealing with, ie. place names change but the Google API only deals with current names.

One reason for the google maps API is longitude / latitude. ( etc) is stored and theoretically exposable. So a workaround I use is the auto complete for the burial location in case we want to go visit, and edit the birth / death fields to some approximation of what it was then. If course everyone else comes up with their own workarounds ... It might be nice to build our own database of places, time line driven, and be able to access APIs of historical atlases.

Interesting discussion, Francois. Mike Stangel - would you know if we could communicate with Google to try and get them to fix some of the SA place locations that are manifestly wrong?

Something that's lacking on Geni in my opinion is the option to enter GPS coordinates.

We have many rural/farm grave sites and with cremation on the rise just as many "unmarked" sites where ashes were scattered. Most people do put up a plaque to remember the person by.

I've decided a while ago to add a bit more to some of the profiles I manage and this is one where I think I've managed to give a solution to the place name problem. I know at this moment nobody should have any difficulty in finding Graaff Reinet but you never know what may happen in a 100 years time from now.

In my grandfathers Overview "About" section I added the Google maps link to the exact place.
Joseph Benjamin Diedericks

Clever girl! I love the profile story and the photo too.
It's a great idea.

In South Africa today place names often different from the past.
KZN was Colony of Natal 1843 to 1910 , Natal Province ,Union of South Africa1910 to 1961 , Natal Province ,South Africa1861 to 1995 and finally KZN or Kwazulu Natal 1995 to present
Surely to have that at the time if the event on profiles should be correct.
Also Köngsberg before 1945 and Kaliningrad after 1945

Yes - put the historically accurate place. Hopefully Geni will give us the GPS coordinate option one day

--and for 4 years 1839 to 1843 Natalia Republic that became the Colony of Natal in 1843

The last change to place names was retrograde. If I insert Wimbledon, London, or Whitechapel, London, these fall away an you are left with London and have to manually inset the place. It is the same for all former towns which are now incorporated in to the nearest city or large town. Before, these were recognised. Now, they are no longer recognised and you have to manually insert the place name after already having typed it. Geni knows this place exists as it finds it in the town it has been submerged in to but then ignores the name it has just found and you have to manualy insert it. This was not progress.

On www.familysearch.org you have the option of choosing the historically correct name.

A city like Cape Town was originally in the Cape of Good Hope, then the Cape Colony, then the Cape Province, and is now in the Western Cape. On Family Search you can choose the historically correct name for the town for the event.

I really can't go along with profiles for a person born in 900 A.D. or born in 1880 A.D. for that matter that state the person was born in the Czech Republic. No, they were not. The Czech Republic did not exist then.

If a peson was born in Königsberg in East Prussia, it is a warping of history to automatically refer to it as Kalinigrad, Soviet Union, or Russia.

What happens when a city called St Petersburg is changed to Leningrad but is then changed back to St. Petersburg? Which name does Geni prefer? Stick with Leninngrad? Why not? Is Geni sure that Kaliningrad will never be changed back to Königsberg?

I think Family Search has the right policy and system.

If a person was born in Johannesburg, Transvaal, South Africa, they were not born in Egoli, Gauteng, Azania. He who rewrites history may be rewritten.

Roderick - agree with you.
Changing placenames everyday .
e.g. Oedt near Duesseldorf part of what Duchy or Kingdom in 1625 ?
Belgium in 1705 ?
Familysearch not 100% correct as well sometimes but better at least.
Some say I nitpick or what does it matter really.
I feel by searching for correct place names I learn something new everyday. Giving me a new perspective on the world and history.

And helping everybody :-) Thanks guys

Algoa Bay >> Fort ?? >> Port Elizabeth >> Gqeberha
Part of Cape of Good Hope then Cape Colony then ?

Born Juanasburg ,Victoria ?
Anyone can guess where that was ?

Johannesburg?

25 December 1850 ?

Then not :-)

Destroyed during the 8th Fontier War.
Near Alice

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