Mother of Pocohantas & Cleopatra?

Started by Erica Howton on Friday, May 22, 2015
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5/22/2015 at 1:57 PM

Private User shared this quote:

Even though this was the rule, there was a way of getting around it for the children of a male ruler to inherit the leadership of the Federation. Chief Richardson made the statement in Pocahontas Revealed that Chief Powhatan’s daughter, Pocahontas, was being groomed to become a future ruler. Your compiler, at first, thought that Pocahontas could never have become a future ruler because she was the daughter of a male ruler whose children could not inherit the rule. Then, he started to examine the circumstances and realized that Chief Richardson was right! Pocahontas certainly was being groomed for leadership, but why would that be if she could never inherit that position? Then, came the light! A child of any male ruler could indeed inherit the rule, if, and only if, their mother was of the royal bloodline! All of the male rulers knew this and appeared to have made it a common practice to marry their relatives who were in line to inherit the rule through their royal bloodline. That explained why Opechancanough married his own niece, Powhatan’s daughter, Cleopatra, sister of Pocahontas, because she too was of the royal bloodline. The head of the Federation was allowed to have as many wives as he wished, whereas the other chief of the tribes under his rule were only allowed to have a maximum of two wives. It was the common practice of the head of the Federation to take a wife and then send her away after she had given birth to her first child. The head of the Federation had one child by each wife and the wife was then free to go on with her life and marry someone else. The one exception to this practice was the “favorite” wife. There was at least one favorite wife who lived with the head of the Federation and bore him many children. She was his favorite because she was of the royal bloodline and the only way through which he could have children to inherit his rule. He would, therefore, have as many children by her as he could to create his legacy. Who, then, was the mother of Pocahontas and Cleopatra? It was the favorite wife of Chief Powhatan, Winganuske. She was known to have been his favorite wife and the mother of his then favorite daughter (Cleopatra), after Pocahontas had left his home to be married. We know the names of many of Powhatan’s wives and children by the testimony of Machumps, the brother of Winganuske. Winganuske had the royal bloodline through her mother, the eldest of the two sisters of Chief Powhatan.

=====

What do we think?

I had thought they had "different" mothers, and Cleopatra was Bear Clan (Shawano).

Private User
5/22/2015 at 3:09 PM

I believe what u think could be

Private User
5/22/2015 at 3:10 PM

I seen two different ones so confusing

Private User
7/11/2015 at 12:34 PM

Yes check it out on shawnee heritage books

7/11/2015 at 3:54 PM

So it sounds like we have "two" different Cleopatra's?

# 1 - Shawano Cleopatra (bear clan) of the Shawnee
# 2 - Pocahantas' full sister, daughter of Winganuske & Chief Powhatan

We have #1 discussed in Shawnee Heritage.

Can we find a written reference as alluded to in the quote:

"We know the names of many of Powhatan’s wives and children by the testimony of Machumps, the brother of Winganuske."

7/11/2015 at 3:57 PM

Machumps should have a bio developed on Geni, he was a character!

https://books.google.com/books?id=RN3fULhPiAEC&pg=PT169&lpg...

7/11/2015 at 4:03 PM

More machumps references:

https://books.google.com/books?id=6XyW01Qg7LMC&lpg=PT185&ot...

https://books.google.com/books?id=t6kYtMo0BisC&lpg=PA144&ot...

https://books.google.com/books?id=DQfC8THkZzsC&lpg=PA218&ot...

Summary:

https://thehistoricpresent.wordpress.com/2011/02/20/the-true-story-...

The True Story Of Roanoke

Who told the men in London that there were Roanoke survivors? Horn posits that it might have been an American named Machumps who went to London in 1608 with Christopher Newport and returned home with Gates. William Strachey told the Company that Machumps had said that the people of Roanoke had lived peacefully for 20 years with the Americans, freely mixing, when Powhatan ordered them killed for no reason. The werowance (leader) Eyanoco saved the lives of seven of the English to work as slaves in his copper mines. Powhatan had killed the English, according to Machumps, because his priests told him they would become a threat to him.

7/11/2015 at 4:14 PM

And more

https://books.google.com/books?id=bRISAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA298&ot...

https://books.google.com/books?id=BBwW1tA4zBsC&pg=PA286&lpg...

I would be comfortable using this pedigree to shape this part of the tree, if you all agree - I've had good results from the compiler on other lines:

http://www.multiwords.de/genealogy/Ja10%20Keziah%20Arroyah.html

7/12/2015 at 1:03 PM

I've taken the following actions:

- found & uploaded as sources the full article quoted from at the top of this discussion, it is now here: http://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000034935081093

This is from this tribal newsletter & published by the National Parks Service in 2009. I found those very credible sources. it is possible the case presented for Cleopatra & Pocohantas as full sisters (both daughters of Winganuske, of the Powhatan ) can be disproved -- I think you'd need to look at the clan membership of the descent lines? -- but it is a stronger case, to me, than the "Shawnee Heritage" assertion. Opechancanough challenged & won the primary political position of his place & time: his wife had to have been, then, of an important lineage.

- therefore I've moved Pocahontas to Winganuske's daughter.

- I've started a profile for Machumps please feel free to contribute & help build it out.

7/12/2015 at 1:04 PM

Sorry - and "Cleopatra", of the Powhatan as Winganuske's daughter also.

7/12/2015 at 1:40 PM

Do you think perhaps Poechananough Winanuske is a woman - not a male? The line is " Winganuske had the royal bloodline through her mother, the eldest of the two sisters of Chief Powhatan."

Private User
7/12/2015 at 1:58 PM

I believe it's a male

7/12/2015 at 2:43 PM

Then what was the name of the mother of Winganuske?

7/14/2015 at 2:33 PM

Yes, I think we have to be careful about the Shawnee line intersections. I can't imagine there weren't, particularly later, but in the Roanoke / Jamestown era of first British encounters -- 1580 - 1624 -- I believe we're in very different territories.

7/14/2015 at 3:33 PM

Can we put a timeline on this G.J. & tie into known historic events perhaps?

Private User
7/14/2015 at 4:07 PM

Yes

7/14/2015 at 11:03 PM

For timeline I was thinking of something simple like

1608: Machumps on the Sea Venture
1615: Pocohantas gives birth to son Thomas Rolfe

...

So we can start nailing events to people

Private User
7/15/2015 at 4:53 PM

Yes, you are still her 10th grandmother Floyd. And I found this relations path to you.

John Floyd, 25th U.S. Governor of Virginia is Ulf Ingvar Göte Martinsson's 22nd cousin once removed!

http://www.geni.com/path/Ulf-Martinsson+is+related+to+John-Floyd-25...

Letitia Floyd is Ulf Ingvar Göte Martinsson's 17th cousin 10 times removed!

http://www.geni.com/path/Ulf-Martinsson+is+related+to+Letitia-Floyd...

G. J. Floyd is your 23rd cousin four times removed.

Private User
7/16/2015 at 6:57 AM

Geni is a changing place, profiles comes and goes, lucky are the ones that becomes resilient against the test of time.

Private User
7/18/2015 at 8:59 AM

Ok

Private User
7/28/2015 at 2:18 PM

We are not removing her profile

7/28/2015 at 5:45 PM

Thank you, both G.J. & Standingbear. It's a pleasure to have you on the team.

11/28/2015 at 3:32 AM

This is for Standing Bear, I just recently started looking up my family history, very amateur at it but have had help. My question is how can I prove who I am, Cleopatra is my grandmother, her descendant Chief Cornstalk is my grandfather his son Michael changed his name from cornstalk to Ailstock. Can you help me please? My email is evelynb221@gmail.com. Thank you very much in advance! I just love this about my family!

12/28/2015 at 4:10 PM

I have no knowledge of Powhatan having any children in England. It doesn't even sound possible. We are talking about the 1600s here. His daughter Pocahontas went to England, and her son from her marriage to John Rolfe's name was Thomas. Whether Powhatan ever went to London??? That would sure be the first I had ever heard of it.

12/28/2015 at 4:40 PM

I don't know if you all have seen this about Cleopatra, but I was just reading from an article about Pocahontas here in Geni. Here is a quote from this page: Pocahontas

"There is positive and indisputable proof (Strong Words for Genealogy) that Pocahontas had a sister named Cleopatra (?Matachanna). This proof was located in the old library of the Maryland Historical Society, an item of three lines covering eleven years. During the period covered by the fragment, matters became so bad between the Whites and the Indians that Opechancanough , Chief of the Powhatans, was induced to agree upon a line being established which neither White nor Indian, excepting truce bearers, should cross under penalty of being shot on sight. To insure strict obedience to the compact, a law was passed at Jamestown imposing a heavy penalty on any people crossing the line without a special permit from the Commissioners Council and the General Court. This accounts for the item alluded to, which is given verbatim. It reads: "Note:

Dec. 17th, 1641 -- Thomas Rolfe petitions the governor to let him see Opechankeno to whom he is allied, and Cleopatra, his mother's sister."

Note:

The record of the General Court was evidently intended to be a verbatim copy though they differ in phraseology and spelling:Note: "Dec. 17th, 1641 -- Thomas Rolph petitions Gov. to let him go see Opechanko, to whom he is allied, and Cleopatre, his mother's sister."

Links to additional material:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocahontas
www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pocahontas/lege-nf.html
http://powhatan.org

Private User
12/29/2015 at 6:13 AM

I dont think cleopartha is shawnee at all i found in helen roundtree books as powhatan

Private User
1/4/2016 at 2:34 PM

So, Cleopatra is Pocahontas's sister?

1/4/2016 at 8:21 PM

I read that Cleopatre and Pocahontas were 1/2 sisters, on a web site, several years ago. My Hard drive crashed on my computer, and I haven't been able to find that website again (I had it bookmarked on the old computer) I believe It was a site written by a David Morenus.

1/4/2016 at 8:35 PM

I can't belive it! I looked again, and I just found that website I was talking about.
http://pocahontas.morenus.org/poca_desc.html

There are also links to her femily tree, which includes parents, and most of her siblings, as well as a good number of her descendants.

http://pocahontas.morenus.org/poca_desc.html

1/4/2016 at 9:01 PM

Thank you, Suzanne-Elaine. I had studied the site a few years ago, thought it a good presentation. Can you make sure there's a link in the profiles ?

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