Henry Sandys, Esq. - Have two different Henry Sandys' been conflated?

More details here

http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=3&p=surnam...

Traditionally, James has been asserted to be the son of the Archbishop's eigth child by his second marriage, Henry Sandys. This theory is problematic because James is believed to have been from County Berkshire, and Henry settled with his second wife, Priscila Chauncy, in County Northamptonshire, where he became Sherrif. According to Cambridge's records, at the time his son, Chauncy, enrolled at Cambridge, in 1621, Henry was already dead. Since James claimed to be born in 1622, Henry seems wrong as James' father by both by geography and age. ....

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I am going forward with separating the Henry's.

This affects the descent of

Capt. James Sands

Erica,
Here is a site that talks about the parents of Capt James:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dav4is/ODTs/SANDS...

G8. [15] SANDES, Rev. Henry, Esq. b: 30 Sep 1572 Woolrich, KEN d: 1626 Groton, SFK #: SAND92
+CHAUNCEY, Priscilla b: ~1566 #: SAND299 m: ~1592 Brettenham, SFK
Mother: SHELLEY, Bridget
Father: CHAUNCEY, Sir Tobias, of Edgecote NTH

H1. SANDYS, Edwin b: <1598 #: SAND135
H2. SANDYS, Henry b: 1592-1618 #: SAND136
H3. SANDYS, Chauncey b: <1602 #: SAND137
H4. SANDYS, Robert b: <1600 #: SAND138
H5. SANDYS, Bridget b: <1604 #: SAND139

«2° Wife of G8. [15] Henry Sandes, Esq.:»
+GOFFE, Elizabeth, of Reading BRK b: ~1576 #: GOFF9
m: 1618
Father: GOFFE, Deputy Governor Thomas, of Reading BRK & MBC, Merchant

H1. SANDS, Henry, Immigrant, merchant mariner b: 21 Jul 1606 Ivinghoe, BKM d: Dec 1651 Boston, Suffolk, MA #: SAND7
+[--?--], Sybil b: 1596-1626 d: >1646 #: SAND8

I1. SANDS, Deliverance b: 06 Jan 1638/39 d: <1646 #: SAND9
I2. SANDS, Samuel b: 1640 Rowley d: 20 Feb 1658/59 #: SAND10
I3. SANDS, Deliverance b: 28 Aug 1646 Rowley #: SAND11
I4. SANDS, John b: 28 Aug 1646 Boston, Suffolk, MA d: ~1688 #: SAND12
I5. SANDS, Mary b: 1609-1654 d: 14 Aug 1654 #: SAND13

H2. SANDYS later SANDS, Capt. James {1}, Immigrant b: 1621-1622 Reading, BRK d: 13 Mar 1694/95 New Shoreham/Block Island, Washington, RI #: SAND36
NOTE:
The specific proofs of Capt. James' parentage have never been found, so representations of this or that link are necessarily based on speculation or circumstantial evidence -- this page being no exception.
It is pretty certain and generally accepted, based on a preponderance of circumstantial evidence, that Capt. James was a descendant of the Archbishop, Edwin (SAND140), probably his grandson. I have decided after examining all the available evidence and arguments that James's father (and son of the Archbishop) was the Rev. Henry Sandes (SAND92).
SAND36.notes
2006-10-23
✱
+WALKER, Sarah, of Portsmouth RI b: ~1626 Boston, , MA (perhaps) d: 1709 Block Island, Washington, RI #: WALK35
7GGMo
m: <1644 Portsmouth, Newport, RI Mother: (WALKER), Katherine Father: WALKER, John, of Portsmouth RI
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I don't see any references or at least I didn't save any if there were any... see NOTE near the bottom. This is what I have in my computer...
Pat
ps: Capt James Sands is my 8th ggf, so I have an interest in who his parents are...

Erica,
Here is a site with a comment about the father & grandfather of James:

From: http://www.archive.org/stream/directforefather00sand/directforefath...
This little compilation has been made entirely for the purpose of recording and perpetuating the names of the descendants of my great-grandfather, Richardson Sands, whose direct descent 1 have traced from James Sands, the first immigrant and the ancestor, 1 believe, of all the people in the United States of English descent bearing the name of Sands. While there is every reason to believe that James Sands was a grandson of Edwin Sandys, Archbishop of York (born in 1516; died July 10, 1588), there is not sufficient evidence to justify the claim of this descent. Benjamin Aymar Sands. New York, July, 1915.

JAMES SANDS I
Born: In England, 1622.
Married: Sarah Walker, daughter of John and Catherine (Hutchinson) Walker, in 1645 or 1646. Her will of October 17, 1703, is on record on Block Island.
Died: March 13, 1695, on Block Island, where he was interred.
Will: June 18, 1694, recorded on Block Island.
Issue: John Sands I, of whom later.
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Here are some other sites I have saved about James--haven't looked at them for some time, so don't remember what is present or if they will help...

This site has info, but can’t copy as a book--The Genealogical Dictionary of Rhode Island: Comprising Three Generations...: http://books.google.com/books?id=LA7ntaS11ocC&amp;pg=PA170&amp;lpg=...

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There is confusion as to who the parents of Capt James Sands are. See info at: http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&amp;m=3&amp;p=surnam...
Also see: http://boards.ancestrylibrary.com/surnames.sands/575.3.1/mb.ashx

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http://www.libraryofgenealogy.com/tibbits/records/reunion/ps03/ps03...

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From: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&amp;db=maold...
[this site has his parents as Henry Sandys (1572 in Northumberland) & Elizabeth Goffe (abt 1576) and does have references.]

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http://gen.reimert.org/database/b261.htm

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SANDYS of Lancashire, Eng. & Rhode Island Our_Bentley_Family@Family2Remember.com
[don't know if this will come thru as a link or not--it shows blue & don't know what info will be found here./ps]

This looks like it may be another "Jenckes" headache!!!

It is early (2200), but I think I am going to turn in as i didn't sleep well last night and I have 2 dr's appts tomorrow--one at 1000 and one @ 1415-- get my eyes ck'ed for glasses in am & chiropractic in pm... Was trying to watch Antiques Road show but found I was napping during them so missed about half of each hour program & could hardly keep awake when I was "awake???"...
Will check back tomorrow. Since I don't see my formatting in James & Henry's profiles, I must have gotten "stuck" here because I couldn't really verify who went with whom!!! Soooooo frustrating!!!
Pat

It's actually pretty simple.

Capt James Sands of Block Island was said to have been born about 1622.

It is impossible, then, for him to have been the son of Henry Sandys, Esq., sheriff of Northamptonshire, 8th son of the Archbishop of York, as that man died in 1621, and his 2nd and last wife, Priscilla Chauncey, had their children some 15 years earlier.

It is possible (although i don't know that it's proven) that James Sands was the son of a Rev Henry Sandys, vicar of Preston, who died in 1626, husband of Elizabeth Goffe, daughter of Edward Goffe, Sr., cloth worker.

I'll add the respective university alumni records and then we'll leave further English ancestry to those inclined to pursue it.

But it was important to break this connection as Priscilla Chauncey, it turns out, is related to the recent Jamestown Colony identified remains in the Lord de la Warr family, so it would skew people's relationships & send them down a wrong path.

The Cambridge alumni database confirms the article I quoted, here's

Chancey Sandys, of Smith's Tribe, Bermuda

Son of Henry Sandys, Esq., of Culworth

(who Geni says is my 12th great uncle)

Erica, I appreciate your research into my Sand's ancestors and I'm more than willing to help you sort out the confusion and any discrepancies regarding the line from my 9th great grandfather, Capt. James Sands to his parents and beyond. Can you wait until after August 17 to disconnect Henry Sandys as the father of Capt. James Sands? I'm out of town until then. I encourage you to continue your mission but please wait to compare your research with mine.

I have no worries that it's self evident Dead men dont have children. :)

And actually this is not much changing the pedigree, as the Rev & Elizabeth Goffe have long since been considered James' father, and I don't have a particular opinion on that one.

So future research, which won't be solved any moment soon, is placing the reverend correctly among the Sands families in England.

I would start with that tomb data in 1626 mentioned by several, which seems like the hardest evidence out there. Also vicar's should have some mention of them.

I found this info about Jame's father & thought it quite interesting!!! There is discussion of pros & cons for other possible parents at this site also. Good reading. This is the part that seemed most appropriate to be added to his profile. Maybe as the first comment in the About section???????

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/sands/1055/
The Pedigree of Capt. James Sands of Block Island. By Ralph Wood February 06, 2005 at 12:37:48

A more promising theory was advanced by Lt. Col. George Owen Sandys in letters from around 1952 which are on file in the Essex Record Office. Lt. Col. Sandys claims descent from James Sandys, The Archbishops oldest son by his first wife, Mary Sandys. Mary was a distant cousin of the Archbishop. Her family owned an estate in Woodham Ferrers, Essex called Edwardes Manor. When the Archbishop was exiled, James was left with his mother's parents at Edwardes Manor. James' mother and brother both died while the Archbishop was in exile and James' grandfather, the owner of Edwardes Manor, died in February 1558, just after the Archbishop's return. The Archbishop entered into a Compact with James' uncle, his deceased wife, Mary's brother, William, to take over Edwardes Manor and leave it to his son, James. The Archbishop remarried that same month.He fixed up Edwardes Manor and changed the name to Edwin's Hall.

The above is documented fact, as is the fact that the Archbishop did not leave Edwin's Hall to James, but, instead, to his eldest son, Samuel, by his second wife. It is also a documented fact that Mary Sandys had relations, who lived in Sonning, Berkshire. See my entries for John Sandys, d. 1554, and Henry Sandys, d. 1570. Lt. Col. G. O. Sandys claims that James, unhappy with his new stepmother, left Edwin's Hall and went to live with his mother's family in Sonning, Berkshire. He claims James Sands is James Sandys' grandson. This would explain James' birth in Co., Berkshire. It could also explain why James chose to change his name to Sands, in light of the shabby way the Archbishop treated his grandfather. It could, even, explain his name, "James", named after his grandfather.

Perhaps, someday, the relationship of the Sands and Sandys family will be proved or disproved by DNA testing or some other means but, in the mean time, I am, tentatively, adopting Lt. Col. Sandys' theory."

Mr HENRY SANDES OF BOXFORD, SUFFOLK
Various researchers have been interested in Henry Sandes of Boxford, Suffolk, because of his well-established connections with the Winthrop family who founded the Colony of Massachusetts and his possible relationship with other branches of the Sandys family who founded the Colony of Virginia. No-one to my knowledge has been able to identify where he was born and who his parents were. The memorial tablet to Henry Sandes in Boxford Church records his death in November 1626 and his age of 77. The location of this tablet is at first sight somewhat unusual as he was actually buried at Groton Church about one mile away. The reasons for him being remembered in both parishes will become apparent as we consider his later life.
The memorial tablet enables us to identify Henry’s date of birth as being 1549, and this rules out a number of the other Henry Sandes or Sandys with whom he has been identified. These include the Henry Sandes born at St Bees in Cumberland in about 1562, and all the branches of the Sandys/Sandes family at Hawkshead, including Esthwaite and Graythwaite, where the parish records show only one child named Henry between 1580 and 1700.
The famous Edwyn Sandys born at Esthwaite in about 1519, who later became Bishop of Worcester (1559 to 1570), Bishop of London (1570 to 1576) and Archbishop of York (1576 to 1588), was Vice-Chancellor of Cambridge University in 1552 when King Edward VI changed the law to permit priests to marry. Edwyn married Mary Sands from Woodham Ferrers. Mary was in fact a distant cousin of Edwyn as she was descended from John Sandys of Southampton and East Cholderton in Hampshire.
Mary had a brother William Sands who married Anne Felton a relative of the Cavendishes and spent part of his life at Trimley. The College of Herald’s Visitation to Essex in 1612 lists William with two sons Thomas and William at Harwich just across the river estuary from Trimley. It notes that both sons were still alive, but does not list any other children. As Henry Sandes of Boxford was well known in southern Suffolk and across the Essex border around 1612, it seems certain that he would have been included in the Herald’s Pedigree if he had been another of William’s sons.
By his second wife, Edwyn Sandys had a large family including Edwyn (born 1561), Henry (born 1572) and George (born 1577). All three went to Oxford University. Edwyn Sandys junior became a Canon of York Minster while his father was Archbishop there, but later went into politics and then became Treasurer of the Virginia Company. Henry and George were also involved in the establishment of the Colony of Virginia and emigrated there. His age precludes this Henry from being the same person as the Henry Sandes of Boxford.
Bishop Edwyn Sandys had a brother Myles (born 1523) who also had a son Henry, but he was not born before 1570. This exhausts all the candidates previously postulated as the parents of Henry Sandes of Boxford and encourages me to put forward my own suggestion.
Baron William Sandys (born c1543) was the son of Henry Sandys and the grandson of Thomas Sandys both of the Vyne in Hampshire. Baron William had a brother Thomas (born c1545) and another brother named either George or James (born c1547). Thomas had at least five sons, Peter, Christopher, Robert, William and Henry, between 1575 and 1583, and they in turn raised families in Westminster early in the following Century.
The records of Alumni at Cambridge University include a James Sandys who matriculated to St Johns College in 1566 and a Henry Sandys who followed him as a Sizar to the same college in 1569. Their fathers are not identified but it seems likely that both James and Henry were sons of Henry Sandys of the Vyne. Although it cannot be proved, for Henry Sandes of Boxford, born 1549, to be the son of Henry Sandys of The Vyne would be entirely consistent with the information on the memorial tablet at Boxford and it is certain that Henry trained for the priesthood at Cambridge University.

Students became members of the University through the ceremony of Matriculation at the beginning of their studies, and Henry joined St Johns College as a Sizar in 1569. Sizars were usually undergraduates from less wealthy families who had their fees reduced in return for undertaking some menial duties in the College. This latter point may seem at odds with Henry’s assumed family connections, but his father had died in 1555 and his grandfather died in 1560. This meant that the title passed to Henry’s brother William Sandys when he was only 17 years old and this could have affected the affairs of the Vyne estate for several years. It is also possible that James needed help in some form and that this was provided by his younger brother Henry.
Henry Sandes’ time at Cambridge coincided with that of Adam Winthrop, father of John Winthrop the first Governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony, and others who later became influential in the reform of the English Church and who represented religious views which came to be identified with the Puritans. On completing his studies at Cambridge, Henry was ordained as a priest in the English Church and, in 1578, he was appointed as vicar at Preston two miles north-east of the weaving town of Lavenham in Suffolk. Preston is also about two miles south of Brettenham Park. The Patron of Preston with the right to choose its vicar was Robert Ryece who was a friend of John Winthrop and a noted supporter of reforming clergy.
In 1583, the newly-appointed Archbishop of Canterbury was charged with ensuring that all clergy conformed precisely with the church services contained in the 1559 revision of the Book of Common Prayer and with other aspects of conducting worship. This discipline was considered to be necessary because some churches were still using the Roman Catholic Mass in Latin while others were moving to simpler and more Calvinistic forms of worship. The 1559 Prayer Book was somewhat less Protestant in theology than the 1552 version and sought to establish a middle way between the two extremes. Nevertheless, many clergy refused to obey the new rules, and lost their living as a result. Henry Sandes was one of these and thereafter he was supported financially by the Winthrop family at Boxford. Using Boxford as his base, Henry became an independent preacher, travelling around southern Suffolk.
Henry Sandes also became a member of the Dedham “Classis”. This was a Protestant group which provided an alternative to the formal Episcopal heirarchy of the Church. The Classis usually met at Dedham just across the County Boundary in Essex but is also believed to have had some of its meetings at Boxford, where William Byrd, one of its founding members, was vicar until 1599. Henry married William Byrd’s daughter Margaret in December 1578, while he was still vicar at Preston. Margaret had married John Warner in November 1568 at Boxford, but Mr Warner had died, possibly in April 1573, leaving her as a widow with young children.
A boy Henry Sandes or Sandye, son of Henry, was baptised at Epping Essex in August 1586 and at one time I thought that he might be a son of Rev Henry Sandes and Margaret Warner. It is now known it was a different Henry Sandye who married a local girl at Epping in 1585.
After his wife Margaret’s death in 1616, Henry Sandes married again to another widow, Frances Archisden (or Arkesden). Her father was Mr Robert Plumbe and she may already have been married and widowed before marrying Thomas Arkesden in February 1606/7. Henry married her at Brettenham in June 1617. This marriage was short-lived as she died in January 1617/8, leaving Henry with two young children, Thomas and Frances, from her previous marriage.
Henry’s third marriage was to yet another widow, Thomasin Caly. Her maiden name may have been Goss, and she married Thomas Caly sometime before 1605. Her husband was a clothier (cloth merchant) from Little Waldingfield, roughly midway between Lavenham and Boxford, and he died in 1618. Thomasin had at least three children, Thomas, Sarah and Rebecca from this marriage. Rebecca was Henry Sandes’ god-daughter. Thomasin outlived Henry and was executrix for his Will.
As already noted, Henry Sandes died in November 1626. In his Will, he asked to be buried at Groton opposite the grave in the chancel of his former friend Adam Winthrop. The Winthrops had acquired Groton Manor in 1544 following the Dissolution of the Monasteries.
Henry’s Will also stipulated that his house in Dedham was to go to his stepson John Warner subject to conditions relating to John Warner’s brother William and William’s daughter Margaret. He also left money to John Warner’s son Henry on reaching the age of 24. Henry made bequests to Thomas and Frances Arkesden, mainly items which had previously belonged to their mother, but also a sum of money to Frances when she reached the age of 18.
Henry Sandes owned property at Ditchingham near Bungay in Norfolk and at Sidestrand near Cromer on the Norfolk coast. He gave instructions for these to be sold. Closer to home, he had property in Little Waldingfield which he had purchased from Thomasin’s brother and sister Goss and which he instructed was now to be sold to his son-in-law John Bull.
Finally he owned a tenement, probably in Groton, which was to be left to his step-daughter Rebecca. His library and books plus all his other goods and chattels were left to Thomasin. A codicil to the Will refers to another property in Lavenham.
John Winthrop was a witness to Henry’s Will and was asked to give Thomasin advice on the disposal of the properties to be sold. As well as these physical bequests, Henry is remembered for his major contribution to Puritan teaching and hence to the Charter for the Foundation of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. This teaching acknowledged that all men were not equal by birth or in social status, but that they all had an equal responsibility to live an honest and chaste life and to contribute to the needs of those less fortunate than themselves.

@Chancey Sandys
My recent research strongly indicates that Chauncy was the second son of Henry Sandys of Culworth Northamptonshire (UK) that he went out to Bermuda after studying at Sidney Sussex College at Cambridge University (UK) and that he was encourged to do so by either of his uncles Sir Samuel or Sir Edwyn Sandys. Chauncy's father Henry was without doubt (in my mind at least) born in 1572 as the sixth son of Edwyn Sandys who was then Bishop of London.
I have also concluded that Rev Henry Sandes of Boxford Suffolk (UK) was the third son of Henry Sandys of The Vyne who would have been 3rd Baron Sandys of The Vyne if he had not died in 1555 before his father Thomas Sandys the 2nd Baron. I am virtually certain that Henry senior left three sons William (b1543) who became 3rd Baron, Thomas bc1545 who appears to have lived and worked in the City of Westminster London (UK) and Henry (b1549). The three boys were looked after by their uncle Walter until William came of age and it appears that the family estates were in something of a mess during this period. This would be why Henry entered Cambridge in 1569 as a sizar (looking after other students instead of paying fees) Adam Winthrop was a student at Cambridge at the same time.
Nick Alexander