Query on Abandoned Trees

Sorry another question,
Is it possible that when a tree is abandoned (and the "Abandoned Tree" button is clicked that the managers name gets changed from "John Smith" to "John Smith (Abandoned)" or something similar to make it easier for users to tell.

Mike Stangel
Erica Howton
Pam Karp
Private User

Hi Geni Guru's - I am completely lost by Abandoned Trees - I've looked thru all the help, the projects and discussions. Is there a help page that I have somehow missed?

Hi Leanne

I don't know of a help page beyond what you've seen.

There is a distinction between "isolated" trees; only a curator could merge in an abandoned tree that is also isolated (not connected to the world family tree). See: https://www.geni.com/projects/Connecting-to-the-Big-Tree/17983

If the tree is public and abandoned (whether connected or not), when I execute "abandoned tree" I get feedback messages in the upper left corner of the profile.

In red: unable to find replacement manager
In green: transferring profile management to (geni profile name)

In the second case, refreshing the screen should show the replacement manager's name appended to the original manager. This to facilitate ease of managing profiles if the original manager rejoins geni.

Yes, outstanding merge requests should show in the new manager's merge center, but I wouldn't count on them looking at them & acting on them. I would cancel the old request and create a new one for better messaging.

If there is no replacement manager found, try options > request management. You should be asked if you'd like to manage the profile. We call that "adopting orphans."

Hope this helps.

Thanks Erica, I think the request management must be only available to pro users.

I think there might be a bug in the system with abandoned trees. I get the "abandoned trees" show up on trees that aren't abandoned. An example is Elizabeth Robinson who showed up as abandoned, so I pressed abandoned trees and got the error message "you are unable to access that page". She is an active user.

Geni would need links to profiles to explore further on a possible bug. Yes, it very well could be a PRO right to execute the abandoned tree command.

.. And request profile management ... But actually I don't think so.

When you have a link next time we'll test.

Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺 if you find an abandoned tree managed by inactive User A, and active User B then gets management, it is a good idea than to request collaboration with User B. Collaboration with a profile manager gives you almost as many right as being a profile manager - including being able to resolve conflicting data and editing relationships.

Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺, I can't add anything to the explanations given by Erica and David.

"Collaboration with a profile manager gives you almost as many right as being a profile manager - including being able to resolve conflicting data and editing relationships"

Excellent reminder. Should be included in any Geni manual.

Thanks David and Pam, I am starting to ask for collaboration - some are a bit frightened by it, I think

John David Thomas Hancock
This profile came up abandoned and is unable to find a replacement profile. I don't have an option to take over the tree

???

Leanne - That is a Claimed Profile. How would you feel if you were away for a year, fighting a serious illness or whatever, and came back to discover someone else was manager of your profile of yourself? You can tell it is a Claimed Profile because it has a Joined Date and no listing of a Manager - so he joined and now is the sole controller of his own Profile.

On the other hand, you MAY be able to request management of unclaimed Profiles he is sole manager of . Have you tried any of those?

Hi Lois, I am just trying to work out how abandoned trees work John is the profile manager of a lot of profiles that I intersect with. I am not trying to take over his "claimed profile", I am just trying to update our intersecting records rather than recreate a duplicate record that then has to be merged at some future date. I get the same options on the "unclaimed records" as I do on John's.

Here is a link to an unclaimed record (as far as I can tell) that is abandoned but could not find a replacement manager.

Thomas Gilbert Hancock

There are no options available to "request management" - so I assume that it is a PRO function or a CURATOR function.

Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺 - requesting management simply sends a message to the profile manager asking them to add you as a manager.

If you go to the profile for Thomas Gilbert Hancock - then Top right - Actions - Manager Options - Request Management of this Profile - it will send a message to John David Thomas HANCOCK asking him to add you as manager. Given that he has not been on Geni recently, I would rate your likelihood of a response as very low.

But at this point I start to question why you want management of that profile. You wrote: "I am just trying to update our intersecting records rather than recreate a duplicate record that then has to be merged at some future date".

I don't see why you can't do that, even if the manager is not active. You should be able to edit the profile for Thomas Gilbert Hancock, add a more complete birth date if you know it, and info to the About, etc. Just continue working as normal, and don't worry about whether the profile manager is active. You can't resolve conflicting data on that profile, but there isn't any conflicting data to resolve.

For a truly abandoned tree, one must "first" execute the command from the options menu, "abandoned tree.". If there is a "no replacement manager" found message, "then" there should be an option to assume management. My best recollection is the latter is not a PRO associated function, but the first may be.

When I edit a profile of course I try to prove my case for the edit by including a citation or a document.

Private User

1. There's nothing wrong with reporting a claimed profile as an Abandoned Tree. The functionality to do that has been placed there by Geni with the intention that it should be used.

2. You seem to have advised Leanne to request management of profiles where an inactive manager is sole manager. As I explained above, all that will do is send a message to an inactive manager. Yes it may wake him or her up from deep sleep, but generally inactive managers don't respond.

Hi, either my GENI is not working correctly or I am not explaining correctly.

For Thomas Gilbert HANCOCK, under actions I got "Abandoned Tree", when I clicked on "Abandoned Trees" it came up with "unable to find replacement manager". I therefore assume that John David Thomas HANCOCK who is the only profile manager on that account, has not been logged on for 9 months or more - ergo by GENI's definition "Abandoned" his trees.

How is sending a message to John David Thomas HANCOCK going to get any response?

FYI - this one is only an example - On a lot of profiles that I have tried to update or merge or fix conflicting data, I get a message along the lines of "sending your request to xxx". The update, of course, cannot be done until the manager agrees (no disagreement there). If they have abandoned their tree, I click "abandoned trees" and sometimes it finds a replacement manager (so I message them) but if it can't find a replacement manager, it sits in limbo forever.

Hello Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺, for such cases a curator may assist.

Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺

I think your Geni is working correctly and you are explaining correctly.

I agree fully with your last post. It is a good summary of the situation, apart from one thing.

You wrote: "On a lot of profiles that I have tried to update or merge or fix conflicting data, I get a message along the lines of "sending your request to xxx"."

If the profile is public, you should be able to edit or merge the profile without seeing that message.

The only time you should see that message on public profiles is if you are trying to resolve conflicting data. In that case, as Itai said, a curator can assist, or any Pro can assist, or any collaborator of the inactive manager can assist.

So from all the above I understand the process should be

1. Try to update the record
2. If it has to go to someone for approval - check the tree is not abandoned
3. If the tree is abandoned - click on Abandoned Trees
4. If it finds a replacement manager (the record should now have an additional profile manager on it) - send that person a message asking them to look at the profile
5. If it comes up with "unable to find a replacement manager" add it to the "Curators Please Assist" for them to approve the changes

FYI - I tried step 5 at the beginning and I kept being told to message the profile manager (the same one who had already abandoned the tree in the first place)

I will try it to see if it works this time.

Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺 that is a good checklist

If you have more than one or two profiles for the same manager then in step 4 I would suggest you ask to collaborate with them rather than bombard them with individual profile messages.

In step 5, it might be worthwhile if you do post for curator help to say that the reason you are requesting curator help is because the manager is inactive. As an alternative to asking for curator help you could ask a Pro to help. Or become Pro yourself

I would love to sign up but unfortunately I have a choice - do genealogy research where I can for free or go to work to earn the money to join up (and then not have the time to do the research :) )

maybe next year - I spent my birthday money on a MACSE membership this year.

Private User - Wasn't saying you couldn't report as Abandoned Tree on a Claimed Profile - only that you will not see the option to request to be added as a Manager.
When they can find a replacement Manager -- Are they now imposing a Manager on the Claimed Profiles also - or just the unclaimed ones where he was sole manager?

As to your point 2 to me -- Above, Erica (in her first post) said "If there is no replacement manager found, try options > request management. You should be asked if you'd like to manage the profile. We call that "adopting orphans."" I was thinking possibly she knew what she was talking about, which is why I suggested it with capital "MAY".
--So -- Is that something that only happens for Curators? Something that used to happen but not any more? Or??

On the other hand - I am a Pro - and at times if I try to resolve Conflicting Data, I get the same message about the Primary Manager has to approve -- even when choosing the Data under Primary Manager. So she probably needs a Curator, not simply a Pro to help her with Data Conflict Resolution - unless she wants to try what I have sometimes done --- occasionally gotten around it by editing the profile so it matches the info in the Non-Primary, thus eliminating the Data Conflict. and then editing to whatever I want.

Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺 - Believe it or not, occasionally Messaging a Manager who shows as "Abandoned Tree" actually works. They may have entered their family to their satisfaction (or for some other reason, not have logged on for a goodly while) but still receive e-mails of Geni-messages.
I have had folks log on in response to a Geni-Message I sent, even tho they showed as "Abandoned Tree" . So go ahead, send the Message and give them at least a few days before deciding you will not get a response.

Thanks Lois. It's great that you clarified what you weren't saying that you couldn't do.

Erica always knows what she is talking about. I think we have all now amply made the point that requesting management from an inactive manager generally doesn't get a response. That applies to all users, Basic, Pro or Curator.

Thanks also for clarifying that Pros also need to collaborate with a profile manager to resolve conflicts. That is useful knowledge. Appreciated.

One of the reasons it might seem strange is that some of the profiles I am updating are "not my family". I have 20 years of research and documents on Jews living in Calcutta, Shanghai, Baghdad and Hong Kong (also where they went after that). Once I determined that there were a lot of inter-marriages I started to collate as much as I could on the jewish families living in the same locations. Some I found linked to mine, some I still haven't linked. I am happy to add this into GENI (and where not subject to copywrite laws) add images. Hopefully someone else will find that elusive link they have been looking for.

Leanne, I love projects like yours. You never know that a connection might be made, and the subject matter is both interesting and off the beaten path.

We're glad to help.

And if I am not mistaken if a profile is added to a project where you are collaborating then you have permissions the same as if you were collaborating on the profile itself.

Yes, that's right, David. One of the ideas behind projects was to safely share edit rights.