Flash Mob Researching first 3 Nel generations

Started by Sharon Lee Doubell on Wednesday, March 22, 2017

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Showing all 15 posts
3/22/2017 at 2:49 AM

Private User has asked for everybody's help putting together an a.b.c generation family descent line on the project for Guillaume Néel, SV/PROG 1 & Jeanne de la Batte, SM/PROG.

Please contribute all the primary & secondary sources you have, on the Discussion. Many heads are better than one.

Here's what she has from De Oude Kaapsche Families. 1894 uitgawe:

De stamvader van deze familie was Guillaume Nel, van Rouen, Fransche vluchteling, die met zijne vrouw en twee kinderen naar Zuid Afrika kwam als kolonist voor het jaar 1690.

(b) 1 Willem, gehuwd met Jeanne la Batte
(c) 1. Ezaias
2.- 9.

(b) 2. Etienne, gehuwd met Maria Marais
(c) 1.- 5.

(b) 3. Jan gehuwd met Maria Marais
(c) 1. Willem gedoopt 25 April 1717
2. Jan, gedoopt 13 November 1718, burger te Swellendam, gehuwd 29 Desember 1754 met Gesina Steenkamp , weduwee van Jan Labuschagne .
3.- 7.
----------------------
(b) Jan Albert Nel gehuwd met Johanna Helena Gouws ouers onbekend
-----------------------

(b) Pieter Willem Nel gehuwd 18 Augustus 1793 met Marijna Adriana Coetsee
ouers onbekend

3/22/2017 at 2:50 AM

Brian (Nel) Nelson said:
G'day all,

With respect, I believe the DVN for Jan (Hendrik?) Nel is correct as b2c2. All the records I have come across, as well as references in the profile of Guillaume Neel, show him to be the second child (c2) of Jean Neel (born about 1687), who was the second child (b2) of Guillaume Neel (SV/PROG).

DVN b3 in this matter belongs to Jeanne (Johanna) Neel, who was born on board the ship De Schelde in 1688, when the Guillaume Neel, his wife Jeanne (de la Batte) and son Jean (b2) left Amsterdam in 1688. Their first son David (b1) died young in Amsterdam abt 1686.

I have not come across any records that show they had a son Etienne! Maybe you can let me know the source of your info.

I look forward to your comments.

3/22/2017 at 2:54 AM

The following is on Guillaume's profile: Guillaume Néel, SV/PROG 1

Let wel dat hy nie familie van Estienne Nel nie.

Hy was 'n Franse Hugenoot wat in 1688 aan die Kaap aangekom het -- sommige boeke meld dat hulle op De Schelde na die Kaap gekom het, maar die moontlikheid is groter dat hulle as Amsterdammers aan boord van die '''Amsterdamse Borssenburg as De Schelde van Vlissingen met Vlaminge''' as passasiers was, saam met sy vrou, '''Jeanne la BATTE van Saumur'''
In 1690 het hy finansiële hulp ontvang vir homself, sy vrou en 2 kinders ontvang.
Teen 1734 was hy en sy familie reeds goed in die Kaapse distrik gevestig.
Op 9 November 1690 koop hy van Gerrit Jansz Visser die plaas Blaauwklip, Distrik Stellenbosch Wyk Moddergat aan hom toegeken, en in 1711 is die plaas Bootmans Drift, Drakenstein. Hy het 10 kinders gehad 1. Dawid gedoop Amsterdam, Nederland 7 Maart 1685 en klein oorlede (Boucher p. 125) 2 . Jean (Jan) *1687 Amsterdam, x Susanna Fourie, Gevestig te Blaawklip en later Rustenburg en Keerweder, Stellenbosch. Heemraad van Stellenbosch in 1722. 3. Jeanne (Johanna) * x 1 Jan 1708 Pieter Peil van Bielefeld xx Barend Pieterse van Wesel 4. Esaias ~ 27 Mei 1691 x 11 Feb 1725 Margaretha Beyers, weduwee van Leendert Oelofse 5. Cornelia x Adriaan van Jaarsveld 6. Willem, burger van Stellenbosch x 12 Jan 1755 Susanna Lombard, weduwee van Jonathan Durand 7. Judith ~ 3 Aug 1698 x Willem Odendaal, van Keulen 8. Elias ~ 28 Jul 1701 burger van Drakenstein x 21 Okt 1731 Anna Coetsee xx 15 Maart 1733 Anna Vivier 9. Adriaan ~ 23 Des 1703, woon te Stellenbosch Feb 1769, x Catharina Appel 10. Pieter Willem x 8 Apr 1725 Aletta van Deventer 11. Hester ~ 1 Aug 1706 x Pieter Venter

Verwysings: Boucher De Villiers/Pama Heese/Lombard Verwysingsmateriaal, Boksburg biblioteek Verwysingsmateriaal, Springs LDS FHC biblioteek

Saamgestel deur: Martina Louw (nee van Breda) Kennethl@xtra.co.nz Jean le Roux

3/22/2017 at 2:56 AM

Em Lo, are you still around? The above looks like it's from your research on http://www.stamouers.com/stamouers/surnames-n-to-q/356-nel-estienne, & your research is always very precise!

3/22/2017 at 3:03 AM
3/22/2017 at 3:05 AM
3/22/2017 at 7:40 AM

LINE 2 DESCENT from Etienne Niel - from Dauphine - NOT a brother of Guillaume - so NOT a2

Probably easier to see on the project.
I think I have everybody, but there may be more?

UNKNOWN PARENTS
a Etienne Niel b1669, Dauphine, came to the Cape as a VOC soldier in 1692; later farmed at La Dauphine, Oliphantshoek, Drakenstein x c 1700 Marie Madeleine Marais b c 1681 aka Maria Magdalena in SA. Arrived at Cape 26.4.1688 on the 'Voorschoten' aged 6 from the Netherlands, having fled France the previous year.
b1 Marie-Madeleine Niel bap 21 Jan 1703 - d. bef 4 Feb 1727 x 5 March 1719 Francois Louis Migault b. c 1690 banished, after her death. Children given to uncle Estienne
Maria Elizabeth Migaùlt bap 15 Feb 1722
Johannis Stefanùs Migaùlt bap 26 Mar 1724
b2 Estienne Niel bap 8 Feb 1705
b3 Rachel Niel bap 10 Jul 1707 x c 1724 Paul Jourdan bap 25 Sep 1695
Jacobus Jourdan bap 20 May 1725
Elizabeth Jordaan [1726] NEED SOURCES
Marija Jordaan bap 9 Feb 1727
Johannes Jourdan bap 23 Jan 1729
Stefanus Jourdan bap 23 Sep 1731
Paul Jordaan [1733] NEED SOURCES
Pieter Jordaan [1737] NEED SOURCES
Andries Jordaan [1739] NEED SOURCES
Rachel Jordaan [1740] NEED SOURCES
b4 Anna Niël b. c 1708 x 26 Jan 1721 Andreas Grovè b. c 1690
Mariana Groff bap 20 July 1721
Sophia Grovee bap13 Dec 1722
Stefanus Grovee bap 26 Mar 1724
Rachel Grovè bap 21 Oct 1725
Margaretha Grovè bap 22 Jun 1727
Elisabeth Grovè bap 2 Oct 1728, d. 15 Jun 1785
Sùsanna Grovee bap 2 Jul 1730
Andries Groviè bap 6 Apr 1732
Johannes Grove bap 14 Mar 1734
Anna Grove 26 June 1735
Johannes Grove bap 19 Mar 1738
Johannes Godlieb Grove bap 6 Sep 1739
Godlieb Grove bap 19 Nov 1741
b5 Jean Niel bap 8 Nov 1711 x 21 October 1731 Drakenstein Sara Coetzee bap10 Dec 1713
b5c1 Anna Maria Niël bap 5 Oct 1732

3/22/2017 at 7:43 AM

Etienne's DNA survives to modern day, but no Nel surname line survives beyond his granddaughter, b5c1 Anna Maria Niël bap 5 Oct 1732

3/24/2017 at 11:17 AM

Finally finished the researched update for the Nel DVN. Thankyou to all those who helped behind the scenes to locate the primary sources. I've shown any where we have yet to locate confirmation by primary source:

LINE 1 DESCENT Guillaume Néel

Pierre Néel x 18 Apr 1660, Normandie Judith Gouye

a Guillaume Néel bap 25 Dec 1663, Rouen, Normandy, x 3 May 1685, Amsterdam Jeanne de la Batte (do Jacques de la Batte & Susanne Laurent)

b1 David Néel bap 7 Mar 1686 - d. b 1688

b2 Jean Néel bap 4 May 1687 - d. 1740 x Susanna Fourie b. bt 26 Oct 1698 - 27 Mar 1701
b2c1 Willem Nel b. 25 Apr 1717
b2c2 Jan Nel b. b 13 Nov 1718
b2c3 Lowies Nel b. 16 Feb 1721
b2c4 Susanna Nel b. 4 Oct 1722
b2c5 Martinus Nel b. 19 Nov 1724
b2c6 Johanna Margaretha Nel19 b. 26 Mar 1730
b2c7 Adriaan Nel bap 25 Mar 1736

b3 Jeanne Néel b. 1688 x 1 Jan 1708 Pieter Pijl xx c1715 Barend Pieters b. c 1690
Johanna Pieterse bap 13 Oct 1715
Harmannus Pietèrsz bap19 Sep 1717
Leonora Pieterse bap10 Sep 1719
Elisabeth Pieterse bap 24 Aug 1721
Maria Pieterse bap 26 Dec 1723
Johannes Pieterse bap 23 Dec 1725
Catharina Wilhelmina Pieters bap 28 Nov 1728 - d. b 14 Mar 1756

b4 Cornelia Nèl b. c 1690 - d Jan 18, 1756 x 22 Nov 1711 Adriaan van Jaarsveld
Adriaan van Jaarsveld bap 2 Oct 1712
Albert van Jaarsveld bap 30 Sep 1714
Johanna Catharina van Jaarsveld bap12 Jul 1716
Susanna van Jaarsveld bap 24 Dec 1719
Hester van Jaarsveld bap 24 Aug 1721
Catharina van Jaarsveld bap 4 Apr 1723
Willem Adrijaan van Jaarsveld bap 15 Sep 1726
Cornelia van Jaarsveld bap 14 Nov 1728
Renier van Jaarsveld bap 8 Oct 1730
Anna Margaretha van Jaarsveld bap 18 Jan 1733
Engela van Jaarsveld bap 6 Mar 1735

b5 Isia Néel bap 27 May 1691 x 11 Feb 1725 Margaretha Beijers b. 26 Feb 1690
b5c1 Willem Nel bap 21 Jul 1726
b5c2 Johanna Katharina Nel bap 28 Nov 1728
b5c3 Esajas Johannes Nel bap 8 Apr 1731
b5c4 Johannes Nel bap 7 Feb 1734

b6 Willem Nel b. c 1696

b7 Jùdith Nel bap 3 Aug 1698 x 11 Nov 1714 Willem Odendaal b. c 1685 - d. 19 Jan 1732
Willem Odendaal bap 10 Nov 1715
Susanna Odendaal bap 9 Jan 1717
Joannis Odendaal 6 bap 14 Apr 1720
Henricus Johannes Odendaal bap 28 Nov 1723
Judiik Odendaal bap 27 Apr 1727
Gerrit Odendaal bap 26 Feb 1730
Adriaan Isac Odendaal bap 29 Jun 1732

b8 Elias Nel bap 28 Jul 1701 x 21 Oct 1731 Anna Coetzee xx 15 Mar 1733 Anna Vivier bap 13 Jan 1714
b8c1 Jan Abraham Nel c 1735 or 1742/3 BIRTH SOURCES NEEDED
b8c2 Albertus Nel b 1743
b8c3 Willem Adriaan Nel bap 16 Mar 1755 or b 1758 ORIGINAL SOURCES NEEDED

b9 Adriaan Nel bap 23 Dec 1703 x bef 1726 Catharina Appel bap 26 Oct 1704
b9c1 Levina Nel bap 7 Apr 1726
b9c2 Ferdinandùs Nel bap 25 Apr 1728
b9c3 Willem Adriaan Nel bap 3 Dec 1730
b9c4 Johanna Nel bap 22 Mar 1733
b9c5 Jan Nel bap 9 Oct 1735
b9c6 Catharina Nel bap 12 Jan 1738
b9c7 Isaak Nel (twin) bap 15 May 1740
b9c8 Cornelia Nel (twin) bap 15 May 1740
b9c9 Judik Maria Nel bap Nov 25 1742
b9c10 Elsje Nel (twin) bap 19 Sep 1745
b9c11 Aderjan Nel (twin) bap 19 Sep 1745

b10 Pieter Willem Néel b. c 1704 x 8 April 1725 Altijn "Aletta" Gerritsz van Deventer b. 27 Jun 1700 BIRTH SOURCES NEEDED
b10c1 Adriana Nel bap 31 Mar 1726
10c2 Willem Nel bap 10 Aug 1727
b10c3 Gerrit Nel bap 12 Dec 1728
b10c4 Johanna Nel bap 24 Dec 1730
b10c5 Pieter Nel bap 31 Aug 1732
b10c6 Jacomina Nel b 24 March 1734 SOURCES NEEDED
b10c7 Jan Nel bap Feb 26 1736
b10c8 Gesina Nel b c 1738 SOURCES NEEDED
b10c9 Cornelia Nel bap Nov 27 1740
b10c10 Johannes Nel bap January 13, 1743 SOURCES NEEDED

b11 Hester Nel bap 1 Aug 1706 - d. c 1785 x 30 Nov 1721 Pieter Venter bap 18 Oct 1699 - d. c 1765
Jan Hendrik Venter bap 26 Dec 1723 - d. 1795
Petrus (Pieter) Venter bap 19.5.1726 SOURCES NEEDED
Wilhelmus Wouterus Venter bap 6 June 1728
Jan Adriaan Venter bap 14 May 1730
Johanna Sophia Venter bap 28 Oct 1731
Francois (Frans) Venter bap 7 Feb 1734 SOURCES NEEDED
Jacob Venter bap 22 Jul 1736 SOURCES NEEDED
Frederik Venter bap 29 June 1738
Jacob Venter bap 15 May 1740
Anna Cornelia Venter bap 14 October 1742 SOURCES NEEDED
Johannes Venterbap 15 September 1744 SOURCES NEEDED
Johannes Albertus Venter bap 27 May 1747
Hercules Venter bap 26 Jul 1750

It's easier to see on the project itself.

Private User
3/24/2017 at 8:57 PM

b11 Hester Nel and Pieter Venter.
Link supply for the children, except for the next children.

Anna, Johannes, Johannes Albertus and Hercules.
Family Search: Paarl and Drankenstein document only available from 1849.
eggsa.org: Paarl and Drankenstein document only available from 1694-1713.
No entry find in the Cape of Good Hope documents, for Anna, Johannes, Johannes Albertus amd Hercules.

Private User
3/24/2017 at 9:05 PM

See the baptism entry for "Jan Hendrik" Venter.

He was baptize as Johannes Henricus Venter. I did fill in the name on the profile under "also known as'.

3/25/2017 at 5:59 AM

THANK YOU. I'm going to call you 'the Marvellous Marie' from now on ;-)

I'll get hold of the managers of Anna Cornelia Viljoen, b5c10 & Johannes Venter, b5c11 to see if they've got anything.

I updated Johannes Henricus Venter & put Jan Hendrik Venter in the aka. I wonder which parent liked to Latinise their children's names? I mean why settle for the ordinary & call your child Wilhelm Wouter - when you can go for 'Wilhelmus Wouterus'? :-) Too delightful - and very musical.

3/25/2017 at 8:10 AM

Sandra Hughes found Johannes Albertus Venter's baptism transcript. :-) One down!

3/25/2017 at 9:38 AM

Looking for the primary sources for these children of Anna Niel, SM & Andreas Grové, SV/PROG:
>>>*Sophia Grove, b2 SM bap13 Dec 1722
>>>* Stefanus Grovee, b3 bap 26 Mar 1724
>>>* Rachel Grove, b4 bap 21 Oct 1725
>>>* Margaretha Grove, b5 bap 22 Jun 1727
>>>*Elisabeth Grové, b6 bap 2 Oct 1728, d. 15 Jun 1785
>>>* Susanna Grove, b7 bap 2 Jul 1730
>>>* Andries Grove, b8 bap 6 Apr 1732

3/27/2017 at 5:00 AM

Thanks to the participation and help of so many people, we're down to only 6 of the whole a,b,c family line left without primary sources:

Jacomina Nel, b10c6 b 24 March 1734

Gesina Prinsloo, b10c8 b c 1738

Johannes Nel, b10c10 bap January 13, 1743

Johannes Venter, b5c11 bap 15 September 1744

Hercules Venter, b5c13 bap 26 Jul 1750

Elizabeth Jordaan [1726]

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